All right, silly question maybe…………………our electric bill this month was nearly triple what it normally is and more than triple last years same time.
We do have a couple of window unit a/c’s but we really do use them sparingly, and according to the power companys website, even if I ran them 24/7 for the whole mont, it still wouldn’t bang up our bill like this!
The flat out refused to check or replace the meter. They tell me that when (if) they go bad they only slow down!!!! They replaced the owner’s meter a coouple of months ago after not getting any readings out of it for over six months.
Our house got hit by lightening a few weeks back. Could this have done something to the meter or?…………..she said something about an open ground on some peice of equipment causing higher than normal consumption.
HEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPP!!!!
Eric
Replies
Any neiughbors with long extenion cords and grow lights? Or a teenage son with a closet full of lights?
"...........she said something about an open ground on some peice of equipment causing higher than normal consumption."
No. But you could have a surge protector that is blown and alwasy drawning current. A well pump that is stuck on.
A water heater with a shorted element.
Go turn off all "known" electrical equipment and look at the meter disc. It should be stopped or bearly moving. Because of things like chargers, standby on TV's/VCR's/Microwaves, furance transformers, door bell transfformers, etc you always have a little power being used.
If the dail is moving faster then start flipping breakers to see what slow it down.
No to the first two.
No. But you could have a surge protector that is blown and alwasy drawning current. A well pump that is stuck on.
A water heater with a shorted element.
Water heater is new, well pump is on owners meter.
Enlighten me about the surge protector (not sure what you are talking about) and the short in the water heater.
Water heater seems to work fine. How would I know?
So I'm out there so far as the lightening and the meter thing?
Thanks,
EricIt's Never Too Late
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Surge arrestors are the things that you can plug in a computor or TV to protect them from power surges. They are also avalable built into receptacles. And there are wholehouse ones that are mounted on the panel or even in dummy cricuit breakers. And there are ones that the power company "rents" and will mount direct on the meter.There are several different systems, but commonly they use a varistor or variable resistor that is "open" at normal voltages, but will close and shunt some of the power in a surge. One that has been hit too many times might be "on" all the time.On the water heater it might work semi-normally, but maybe slow recovery if you have a shorted element.Again watch the meter and try and pinpoint the item causign the hight current draw.
"Water heater is new" .. I'ld start there, check it all out, I know this sounds stupid but the hot and cold aren't reversed are they, or temperature set too high, or wiring: guage, voltage ???
Eric the best thing that you can do is like Bill was telling you. Cut everything that you can off in the house. After everything is turned off check the wheel or disc that is in the middle of the meter. See how fast it is spinning. If it is going real fast the turn the breakers in the panel off one by one and see which one slows it down.
Wade
One other thing is to look at ALL of the bill and compare it with last years.Look at the kWh, rate codes, and cost per kWh.One thing that I have heard happens is that sometimes a place will accidently get rerated as commercial or other special rates.
Is just the bill tripled or is the usage tripled ? Electric rates have been climbing and it's been hotter this year. A combination of the two can make the bills higher. We used about 25% more electric this year, because of hot summer, and turning ac down more than last year 73degrees instead of 75.
Thanks all for the guidance...............something still seems out of whack.
My heghest bill is normally in the winter when we heat the upstairs rooms with elec. baseboard.
This months bill was more than double that.
Last months was estimated at $80.00, this bill was read and corrected, came in at $224.00. So that's $150.00 a mont for a place that normally runs around $80.00 to $100.00 a month. We are pretty conservative with the a/c too................at least I thought we were!
Rates are around 12.3 cents per kwh.
Elec dryer. hot water, range, dehumidifier in basement,and 2 or 3 window a/c's used conservatively. No d/w.
Thanks for your help,
EricIt's Never Too Late
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What You Might Have Been
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When you say last months was estimated does that mean you are on level billing with a set monthly budget charge? Thats what I have for gas and electric until the settle up month which is usually July or August when they calculate the actual usage and compare to what I have paid and then bill the additional balance. This usually results in a much higher than usual bill for that month.
They only read every other month.
Months they don't read they estimate; usually low.
When they do take a reading, it also shows their undercalculation for the month before and you can often get whacked.
I think that is what is going on here............I hope.
I will begin sending in the meter readings myself. I can sign up on the internet; they send you a reminder and you send them the reading. Done.
EricIt's Never Too Late
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What You Might Have Been
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Hopefully thats what it is. I've always kind of chuckled with my provider in that they put you on the budget plan so you pay the say amount each month but then usually get slammed when its time to do the annual balance things out.
Eric, look closely at your bill.
Many have fuel adjustment charges on the. These are charges allowed by FERC for the utility companies to recover the higher cost of fuels used in generation. There is also an indication, by your kWh rate, that your power company may have had to purchase power "off grid", and that outside power rate can show up on your bill.
Off grid purchased power, wheeled into you area can cause a substantial jump in cost for everyone on your grid. Check with a few neighbors, and see if they got higher than normal bills.
Finally call your state public service commission directly. That "meters usually run slower when faulty" is plane BS. Your state regulatory commission would love to here that one. They will more than likely call your power company and gently prod them to check your meter.
In fact you can ask them to put a recording meter on your home. They are usually left in place for a week and a detailed report is generated, telling what and when you used power during that period.
BTW I have worked for a power company for the past 20 years. Don't let them blow smoke at you. They are a regulated industry, and someone does the regulating.
If you have figured out things are right on your side of the meter, it has got to be their problem.
Dave
Thanks,
I'm on a fixed rate for the year at around 12.3 cents per kwh.
Still thinking about the Public Service Comm call. Did it with the phone Co. once and they kicked butt.
I'll wait a month and call the meter in and see how things look.
So what do you think about a lightening strike damaging the meter? The building got hit, it toasted a ceiling fan very close to the meter.
Thanks,
EricIt's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
[email protected]
One of the locations I use to work at had a gas meter repair department. I became fairly familiar with the people working there, and learned some about gas meter, regulations, repair, tampering, and normal problems with various meters.Another location did our electric meter repair and testing, and I was only there on HVAC service and repair calls.
The common link between the two meter shops was that we are reguired to test, and replace meters at a specified rate and interval by state regulation. This is done for public safety and consumer protections. Much of the repair services are now done by outside contractors, but not all of it. Again, state regs require us to do a certian percentage of it and to check all customer complaints or inquiries about possible meter problems. Most of the states have similar regulations for the same reasons; piblic safety and consumer protection.
As I mentioned, I am not familiar with electric meters, but have seen some of the newer innovations tried with them. Depending on the age and type of meter you have, yes lightning could have damaged your meter. It should have been checked by the power company soon after you reported the strike. If there was any question about its integrity, it should have been replaced and taken in for testing. Not doing so would open the poco up to all kinds of liabilty issues.
One of the interesting things I learned was that on any meter that is runnig slow, we have to eat the loss. On meters that are runnig fast, outside of a very small margin, we have to refund the overcharges to the customer. Another interesting tidbit of onfo was that the largest percentage of slow meters occurr because they have been tampered with, not meter failure. When we catch them, we only allowed to recover or losses to the extent that we can prove the number of months or years that there was acctually theft of service.
Dave
Regulation, my butt.
Here on Long Island, the State created the "Long Island Power Authority" when they took over the Long Island Lighting Co. a few years ago. When I complained to the state, I got this nice letter back that says "We have no jurisdiction over the state power authority. Please contact them directly."
Gee, Mr. Governor, thanks so much for the help.
Have you checked the obvious and made sure that the reading was correct? ie that the reading posted on the bill corresponds to what the meter says? I had a gas meter miss read once. Made 'em come back and do it again.
A friend got a huge electric bill. Walked all around the house for the first time in months and found a small tropical forest growing in the sideyard from a hot water leak. A small hot water leak means big $$ of electricity and potential problems - flooding, rot, etc; depending on where it leaks. In the morning, before any water use, the HWH inlet and outlet should be warm near the tank and cold 12 inches away. Anything else indicates a problem.
Another possibility. If a utility can't get to your meter (dog, snow, too nice a day to read meters, trying cut labor costs, etc) they estimate from previous usage. Two or three months of that and a few underestimates will add up to a big correction leter. Hopefully they would indicate on those previous bills if it was an estimate.
Check your meter every day, same time, for a few days. Post the results. We'll comment on your wasteful lifestyle and blame you for the current high price of oil. No, I mean we'll tell you if it is ballpark right for a single family home in the summer.
If it is too high, then you can plan a little investigative work.
Any good electrician with an ammeter should be able to track the loads and compare them to equipment normal loads. Simplest check is to turn off the main and each breaker to see what is drawing power.
A damaged water heater is a possible cause. Check the load and don't forget to check the temperature/pressure valve. One that cycles off and on or leaks can indicate a faulty thermostat, bad element. A T&P that is stuck partially open can cause the water heater to run all the time. Driving up the power, water and sewer charges. I usually lift the ground or put an ammeter on it to check for a faulty element.
A damaged AC unit also. I have seen a combined AC/heat with both running at the same time. A damaged underground feed is a possible cause. Once located one of these by noting the steam coming out of the ground.
Once found a small pot farm being run by a HOs son in their attic. Unknown to the HO. The two 1000w halide lamps pretty much accounted for the rising bill. Once found substantially the same thing in a duplex where one occupant was stealing power for his farm from the other occupant's panel. Never underestimate how strange things can get.
Thanks,
All good things to look for.
No weeds in the attic though!!
EricIt's Never Too Late
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I once had to locate a break in an underground circuit at a ball field. When we located the break, we found two direct bury cables burned bare and completing a ciurcuit through the ground. Made for a nice underground heater and a lot of wasted electricity.It is not my job to tell you that it can't be done. It's my job to tell you how much it will cost. Here, sign this change order.
One thing - have you checked the meter reading on the bill against the meter itself? The meter reader may have mis-read it: very rare, but it does happen sometimes.
yeah,
First thing I checked.
ThanksIt's Never Too Late
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Not really.
Most POCO use contract meter readers now days. Thier misreads on both gas and electric meters averages about 4 or 5 time what the companies use to experience with thier own employees.
Not acceptable to the HO, but is to the POCO because they only pay about half of thier former cost for meter reading.
Dave
I must be lucky, I guess. the local POCO here still uses their own employees. the same guy's been reading out meters (I have three) for the past ten years; rarely is there a mis-read.
Actually, it amazes me that there still are meter readers, for the most part. I would think it would be cheaper to install meters with a telephone connection, and just run a phone line over to the telco NID. Most places with power also have phone.
" Most places with power also have phone."That might have been a few years ago, but more homes are going celular.Also there are a significant number of meters that are not on any buildings and thus not phone at all.I don't know if any electric meters are going this way, but gas are going with very low power RF and drive by meter reading.
That is what Duke Power (elec) here in WNC and central NC is converting to. The city of Marion does it with water meters too.
Edited 8/10/2005 5:46 pm ET by RASCONC
Have they already done a test area?
We tried that technology several years ago and for reasons unbeknown to this bottom feeder discarded it. My understanding was that it was not as reliable as it was suppose to be.
I'll ask around tomorrow and see if I can learn more.
We currently have test areas for the phone and/or cable link, but I haven't heard any progress reports on them.
There were also some meters that could be interrogated by a hand held scanner. It was suppose to eliminate the reading errors, and be faster also. There may be some of them in service, but apparently either the scanners or meters have issues.
We currently use a device that scans a bar code on the meter and the readings are entered by hand. That information is downloaded each evening for bill processing.
Dave
I see around here that all of the non-residential meters are going with electronic ones with LCD.I am not sure of the details, but it appears that they can be programed for things like demand and PF. The ones that I have seen are used for things like lighting and thus don't have those rates.It should be easy to have those kind to do electronic read outs. Either plug in, low power RF or IR.
I have not looked at one yet as I believe they are having some contractor install them. I do not know the schedule. BIL said his had the "new type" , he is in process of upping svc to three phase but his old meter had been replaced before the move up. His buddies work for Duke and I think one of them said it was a new style readable.
I know they have the demand shutdown system where they can send a signal and lock your a/c or water heater out for a shot period during peak demand periods. Not sure how similar that tech is. Supposedly it will be the driveby type and not the get out and scan.
I have one of the mongo digital industrial meters (400ampsvc) that flashes some kind of peak demand #. I think mine shows about 16.6 which is probably when the heat pump, other a/c and two water heaters and the hot tub were on line.
In my neck of the woods, all utilities (water gas, electrical) are now read remotely via drive-by RF. The last one to go that route (water) happened this summer. Increases the efficiency of the meter readers and prevents foul-ups with the phone service. Not much of a benefit in non-urban areas though? I wonder what the RF range is...
Not much of a benefit in non-urban areas though? I wonder what the RF range is...
Gotta be worthless here, 1/2 mile off the road. I keep hearing that our meter will soon (6 mo ago) be read over the power lines. But the same guy keeps showing up every month, only one major overread in 10 yrs.
Same elec coop is promising broadband over the elec lines. I understand a few subscribers actually have it work, unlike my buddy in the target area who tried to get it.
Looks like we may be waiting awhile. For both.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Same elec coop is promising broadband over the elec lines.
we have that here for the last 3 years or so - -
had a problem with mine - under reported for 7 months before they came out and did a manual read - got a letter a few minutes before the family was out the door for 2 weeks in Europe threatening to turn off the power - -
pissed me off - been paying the bill here for 28 years and they pull that kinda crap on their error - in fact I'm still pissed -
went in after the trip to deal with it and found out they had also charged me for a water heater I hadn't purchased - and tried to give me a hard time, like I'm trying to steal it or something - - 'did you have somebody sign for it?' - 'no, we don't do that' !!! so I guess anyone can waltz in and charge a water heater to anyones bill and REMC won't even have someone sign for it!!....
I'm still pissed - used to be a friendly enterprize (still like the line crew, first rate guys), but they bailed out the county economic developement jerks and moved into the spec building that had set empty for 3 years and it's been downhill ever since -
did I mention I'm pissed about it?
anyway - if they start reading over the lines, might be a good idea to reconcile your bill with your meter - -
"there's enough for everyone"
Good plan.
I generally trust nobody. And this particular elec coop was my first ISP when we bought a computer 5 yrs ago. By far the worst of my 7 ISP experiences. Like you, I get along great with the guys in the field, but management sucks. They agree.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I'm interested to hear that you are getting broadband via the powerlines. I thought the FCC was still investigating the usage and that adoption is likely to be nixed due to radio interference with the HAM and other radio frequencies.
As follow up to my earlier post about the RF meter reading technology.
I was wrong.
We still have, and continuing to add to, some 50K+ gas and electric meters in service. Old meters are being replaced with the new ones as they reach their scheduled change out dates.
A normal residential electric meter cost us from $75 to $85 each. The RF replacements cost $100 to $110 each, so cost is a factor in the rate at which the project proceeds. The cost of the upgrade is not allowed in the rate base, but is absorbed and recovered by the company by reduced labor cost after they are in service. Cost for the add on module for a gas meter adds about $35 each.
One meter reading van can read some 1000 meters a day, or about 3 to 4 routs for a walking meter reader, depending on the rout locations.
Dave
Not here, "yet" they say. But I heard awhile ago that it worked very well for some, if not the guy I know (distance problem). I'm very skeptical, considering the management of the organization. This was a pilot program in conjunction with a co. out of maybe Alabama.
Seems to me that somebody posted here, might have been another list, that the Dutch did a large trial and yanked it. Too much interference.
I'll believe it when it works on this mountain. In the meantime: I love my dialup, I love my dialup, I love my dialup....PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Well, if you have line of sight into a town with high-speed internet, you could always pull a Cringely, spy out a house with a spyscope, knock on the door and offer to buy/share high-speed internet with them if they allow you to install a router and a high-gain WiFi antenna on their roof. Cringely even managed to get around a mountaintop in the way by mounting two antennas back to back on a tree in the ridgeline.Might be worth considering.
I've actually wondered about getting a T-1 line, and re-selling to my neighbors (I'm in an urban area). What sort of high-speed wireless equipment is there that would work substaintially faster than cable or DSL?
There is fixed point wireless internet.Don't know what the equipment cost. I have seen ads in the past, but don't remember where.And in some areas there are commercial providers for that service.A google on - fixed point wireless internet - and also - fixed point wireless internet rural - will gets you lots of info.
Almost all wireless equipment will outpace a T1 line if you hav a clear line of sight. The T1 operates at 1.5Mbit/s, which is about the slowest speed that a 802.11a,b, or g will operate under.The biggest obstacle is not to have a clear line of sight. Even then, high-gain antennas can "burn" their way through some foliage, etc. under most circumstances. While 802.11a offers less range than the more ubiquitous 802.11b&g, its higher frequency band is used by less equipment and thus may not suffer from as much interference.Also have a look into the many different hotspot packages available out there these days. Some can be done in the firmware of a standard Linksys router, IIRC. Making the numbers work on reselling a T1 may be a bit tricky though. At least around here they are very expensive. A Business DSL account may provide more bandwidth at lower cost as some ISPs allow you to resell bandwidth (see Speakeasy, for example). The only problem with DSL is the distance to the CO. If the distance is high, then your speeds will stink. IIRC, the max. allowable distance for T1 service is 15,000 feet. DSL maxes out at 18,000 ft. Fiber-optic (where and when available) has none of these limitations.
"DSL maxes out at 18,000 ft."
I can verify that. We're at 19,000 and they connected us and said we could evaluate it. Works okay in the winter. Not great and I get better speeds at work, but okay.
But in the summer, we aren't able to connect 95% of the time. I'd guess that components run a bit slower in the warmer weather and that puts it over the hairy edge it normals operates at, but do you know more about that?
Dial-up sucks. And we have it for 4-5 months of the year.
We could, I suppose, set up a wireless router 200 feet closer to the DSL node, but it seems like a small chance that it would make enough difference.
Unless there is some other trick - a smarter, error-correcting router, etc?David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I'm sorry that you share my pain... we wanted to put DSL to work in my office but find that the distance is too great to allow anything but a small number of people to connect at the same time. 800k down, 100k up, if that. ARGH! They promised 3M down, 800k up...That said, I have no idea what the geography around you is. If you have a clear line of sight and the right topographical conditions, even regular routers with highly-directional antennas can bridge miles of space. Can you "see" into town? If so, is there a friend in town that would be willing to put an antenna on his/her roof pointing at you? That could be all that you need to create a wireless high-speed link, whose performance may only degrade in very wet conditions when the water droplets attenuate the signal.
"If you have a clear line of sight and the right topographical conditions, even regular routers with highly-directional antennas can bridge miles of space. Can you "see" into town?"
Interesting idea. Very interesting. Got a reference on those routers?
Straight to town is heavily forested, 50-60 foot spruce trees, about 4 or 5 crow-flying miles. How directional are those antennas - i.e. if mounted on a tree top, and they swayed in the wind, would that work?
More likely would be a connection over the beach. We've got 700 feet of beachfront and the area is somewhat concave. Hanging off our 60-foot-high bluff, I can see houses 3 miles away (towards town).David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Well, you can use any router that allows a bridge mode. I have some info on this on my own web site for apple hardware (http://www.vonwentzel.net/ABS/) but the same thing can be achieved using Linksys or other gear at a lower price point (and a bit more elbow grease).Here is a how-to for a inexpensive exterior-grade wireless transmitter: http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/WaterProofBoxesSeattleWireless.net and other sites have a wealth of information. Check it out as the solution you're looking for could probably be built for less than $400. The trick is not to mount the antenna too high in the tree, using a clear "window" above some branches where you can aim your yagi, backfire, etc. antenna. The aim will be critical, with both of you having to spend some time to get the antennas lined up just right.On my site I even have a link to a how-to to recycle old primestar antennas. It's fun stuff and I have linked several homes with variations of bridges, repeaters, etc. Some people have gone as far as building solar-powered, battery-backuped base stations that sit in the field to amplify or redirect signals over ridge lines and the like.
That's very interesting, my kind of reasoning. But we're surrounded by 80' trees, which we like. There's a wireless service, Verizon, that hits the nearby river valley hamlet even though it's not a direct line of sight. People there like it, small dish pointed more or less uphill. I called, figuring it was my answer if the trees weren't a problem. Woman on the phone asked our street address, couldn't do anything without it. OK.... "There's no service available there."
I pointed out that we were 400' up in the air from the street address, on top of a mountain. "There's no service available there." Probably I can see their transmitter when the leaves are off. "There's no service available there." Asked if there was anybody else I could talk to. "There's no service available there."
Now, I'm not positive, but I think she was alive. No more than 40 watts, but probably breathing.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
The trees are not necessarily the problem. In fact, they could be a great and stable antenna platform. Simply mount a weatherized transmitter in the tree with the antenna nearby (minimizes cable losses), and power the whole thing with Power-Over-Ethernet. That means you only need one wire to snake up the tree. With the right color, it may not even be noticable.It may be worthwhile to see if someone in the valley would be willing to share with you. I note with grim satisfaction that your level of support from telephone techs at Verizon largely mirrors mine. If these guys didn't have a monopoly to mlik, they'd be out of business by now.
Gets better! I'll have to see who's there once the leaves are off. That'll include most of the second largest town in the county. Ooh, ooh, I know an Australian geek (friend of a friend) who lives there. Offered to loan me a computer last time I had problems. Maybe I'll see his house.
I'm not concerned with a wire up a tree, just that the tree stays there. Now getting the wire up that tree might be interesting. I don't like to go up more than 30' or so. But from what you're saying it doesn't have to be high.
Those brand names you've mentioned, will I be able to google and understand what they're talking about?
This is pretty exciting. Thanks. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I have line of sight between my business and my house aprox 600'
I Have a high speed wireless connection between the two I use a Linksys Wap 11 in bridge mode http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?childpagename=US%2FLayout&packedargs=c%3DL_Product_C2%26cid%3D1115416826322&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
and Hyperlink technolgy directional antennas http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/antennas_2400_out_directional.php
You can go up to 10 to 15 miles with the right antenna and line of sight
My set up cost me $1000 cdn 4 years ago and I have had no problems with the connection and average 5 MBps (about 3 times faster than my high speed cable) and share 1 internet connection between home and work plus have full network access from home. This connection is fully secure as you set up the wap11 in bridge mode so it can only talk to the other end.
You can do this setup for under $400 now
Here are some guys out in califorina going 20 + miles doing this
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2001/05/03/longshot.html
Jeff
It's about 6 miles, by crow. Thank you, and Constantin. Got some reading to do.
Amazing, the expertise on this board.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Amazing, the expertise on this board.
What's amazing is how these threads take on a life of their own!
Eric
(the op)It's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
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Digress? Us?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
All you have to have is a clear line of sight. The greater the vertical clearance that you can achieve on both ends, the better. Ideally you'd shoot the signal from one mountain-top to another as the signal spreads out like a wave before re-constricting at the receiver end. Not to worry though, as a couple of miles should be childs play for most equipment once set up right. As mentioned before, look into all the free community web-sites that are out there. See what works well for them and emulate. No need to reinvent the wheel. I am partial to Apple hardware because it is user-friendly to set up but have also had good experience with Linksys.
Found something that doesn't even need tin foil or coffee cans:
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/hg2430g.php
Any sense of how far we could cover?
They say 5.3 degree beam width. Any validity to assuming a 360/5 = 70 fold increase in effective distance? Or would it be 360*360/5*5 = 5000 fold increase (100 miles?, that seems too much)David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I am not a great fan of Hyperlinktech due to their customer treatment (in the past, perhaps its better now). See my site for some sites I have found to be a good choice (and I have no commercial or other affiliation with them). For any length of distance, I'd consider a wire-grid dish-style antenna to get your sensitivity way up. The ones I have seen were 22db or thereabouts. See Rflinx.com and some of the other dedicated sites you can find at SeattleWireless.
Found another that gave more info:
http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail~dpno~141148.asp
14 dB, 30 degree. The H-AO14SD Outdoor Antenna Kit is currently our strongest Hi-Gain antenna. When paired with another Hi-Gain antenna it is capable of extending your wireless range up to one and a half mile. The directional design of the antenna creates a 30 degree emission of your highly amplified wireless signal.
So maybe the 30 dB, 5 degree one is a possibility at 3 miles.
My, but we have hijacked this electric meter thread, haven't we?!David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Pringles can 10 Miles
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448
Jeff
Just looked at their crappy web site and found no mention of broadband. Maybe they gave up.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
The issue of meter readers is one that I've been interested in for years. It seems totally ridiculous that there still has to be on-going monthly meter reading. I think there should be a way to send in the readings from ALL meters at a location (water, gas, electric, whatever) to a central billing point. And pay ONE utility bill. Even if everyone does not have a line phone, there should be a way to send it along the electric line, or worst case, have to install the equivalent of a cell phone that calls in the reading. As long as several options were available, I can't imagine that it cannot be done just about everywhere.Worst case, it sends a digital picture of the meters and a computer scans the pictures for the reading.If the public utility regulators were really doing their job they could find a way to force the issue. Then we could get rid of meter readers, along with all the pollution they cause driving around, any issues of safety, etc. It's just absurd to me that there isn't way more of a movement toward this than there is.
"Even if everyone does not have a line phone, there should be a way to send it along the electric line, or worst case, have to install the equivalent of a cell phone that calls in the reading. As long as several options were available, I can't imagine that it cannot be done just about everywhere."I can be done. But how much more do you want to pay to get rid of the meter readers. That is the question.Don't think that the utility companies are not interested in reducing both cost of meter reading and reducing errors. I am only very distantly experienced in this area and even at that limited to rual water districts.But one scheme they where looking at was using the sonic signals throug the water."Worst case, it sends a digital picture of the meters and a computer scans the pictures for the reading."But one common method that they have used is to use mail in post cords that the customer fills out. But once a year the district does the reading.That reduces the cost by 11/12.
It would also require coordination between utility companies. I doubt that will happen either. BTW, I did study public utilities when I was in economics, so I have an idea about the regulations. Of course, lots of things have changed, and every district could be different.But it seems to me that most meters have to be replaced on a schedule (except maybe water meters) so that I think the marginal cost would be minimal. And the savings of eliminating all meter readers (at least greatly reducing the number - probably every meter should be read once a year by a human) and the savings of having only one bill would be much greater than the additional cost on the meters.Why, having just ONE meter reader for all the meters in a location would be a huge savings. But it would require coordination by the utilities, which will only happen if legislatively required.
Bryan, see my earlier post about the cost of this type of technology.
I am not sure how other states regulate the local power companies, but here the PSC has a lot to say about what is allowed to be included in the the customers' rate base. The PSC also sets the allowed of profit the companies are allowed margin to make (for us it is around 12%). It is not a guarantied rate, but a ceiling rate. Make to much, and the overage has to be refunded to the customers in some form.
It becomes a balancing act to pay dividends, choose the needed capital investment projects, keep the operating cost down, and still make money. In addition to those hurdles we are owned by an overseas giant corporation. They want a return on the investment they made when they purchased us.
It is tough business environment to operate in, so it is a little simplistic for anyone to say the regulators should mandate the changes you suggested. Now if you suggested that the customer pay for it, and the regulators agreed, the utlities would hit mach speed in their effort to upgrade.
Dave
I had my meter read by a meter reader who transposed the two center numbers of a 4 digit read by accident. This mistake cost me over $350.00 that month compared to a normal $150.00. I figured it out after the next months bill was just about zero. The power company agreed and made an adjustment.