We have a problem with cracking floor tile grout. We suspect the cause might be the floor moving. Before we undertake a major task of removing all the newly installed kitchen cabinets which were placed on top of the tiles to remove the floor to get to the joist, might we first try epoxy grout? If this does not work, how difficult is it to remove this grout?
Thanks
Add a strap for easy carrying and pouring when working with 5-gal. buckets.
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Replies
epoxy grout ain't gonna stop your floor from moving.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Like he said + it is a PITA to get out. Its just epoxy and colored sand.
yes it will...
if your grout lines are wide enuf for two coarses of #5 rebar.please don't post yer knee jerk nay saying responses until you thoroughly consider the possibilities!!!d;)Wars of nations are fought to change maps.
But wars of poverty are fought to map change.
sorry.
can't type more tonight ...
holding a not yet sleeping baby ...
one hand ... one finger typing.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I' could take her off yer hands...Give her a moochie from Uncle Tony...Wars of nations are fought to change maps.
But wars of poverty are fought to map change.
There are things that can be added to grout to make it more flexible, but nothing works miracles. And getting the old grout out is a PITA.
Of course, if you have to open up the floor, getting the grout out is a lot easier. ;)
Why is the floor flexing? Weak joists? Insufficient subfloor? What's below this kitchen? What would you be able to do if you removed the floor?
How many layers of ply/subfloor you have under the tile?
I think thats your problem looking at it from here....lol.
You should have a minimum of 1 1/4" of subfloor and then either Ditra or CBU for a worry free job. I'd go Ditra for the few extra bucks.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...
but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying,
"Damn... that was fun!"
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Nobody seems to be answering your question about how difficult it is to remove epoxy grout. It would be a lot of work but the nice thing about epoxy is that if you heat it up to 150 or 200 degrees it turs soft and pliable so you can remove it a lot easier than cement based grout.
I used epoxy grout on a lot of slab countertop jobs on the sink to countertop joint (instead of flexible caulk) and I haven't had any complaints that it has failed. I also used it on the backsplash to countertop joint with good success. I was using C-cure brand epoxy grout.
I know the sink and countertop expand at different rates so the epoxy must tolerate some movement. If it was your floor and you don't mind taking a chance wasting more time and material it might be worth a try. Just removing the cement based grout sounds like a nightmare. I think I would rather follow the other posters advice and tear the whole thing out and add plywood before crawling around scraping bits of grout off.
I have never tried them but I have heard of expanding grouts. I think they add powdered iron to the grout to make it expand as the iron turns to rust. I don't know if it would help your situation but it is worth considering.
karl
I'm interested to hear more about epoxy grout.Is epoxy grout flexible, and therefor less likely to crack with movement of the substrate?Does it adhere well to metal, such that it would be a good solution where tile meets an under-mounted SS sink?Epoxies tend to yellow with exposure to uv light. Have you noticed any color change near windows?BruceT
I'm interested to hear more about epoxy grout.<<
Bruce,
Here's just a taste from "Chris the Rep" and I got this from John Bridges site and I'd suggest you go over there (http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php? ) if you want a LOT more information on it!
First off, do not try to mix less than 25# of grout. Open Part A and Part B, stir each one in the pail it came in completely. Then empty "A" and "B" into your mixing pail, scraping out as much as possible. Stir these two together completely. You'll know when, the 2 colors will be completely blended. Then start to stir in the whole bag of powder, a little at a time. You'll need a drill mixer for this, you won't be able to mix it well enough by hand. Mix thoroughly, taking care to scrape the bottom and sides of the mixing pail. Let stand about 15 minutes, then re-mix. If the material feels a little stiff in the pail after 30 minutes or so, just re-mix it, it will loosen up. But don't add any additional liquid to it. After you start spreading grout, if it looks like it is going to take longer than a couple of hours to use all of the material in the pail, you can park the pail in a tub filled with cold water (Add some ice to the tub if it is really hot in the work area. I put the whole pail in the fridge once when I had to leave for an emergency). Cool temperatures will extend the bucket life considerably. Just remember, if you cool it, it will take longer to set up in the joints. A light wipe over the tiles with a barely damp sponge is a good idea just before spreading the grout. You don't want pooled water, or any water in the joints, you're just trying to fill the minute pores on the face of the tile. Work the grout into the joints and use an epoxy float to remove as much as possible from the face of the tile. After 30-45 minutes, come back and see if it is firm enough to begin cleaning. Don't be alarmed if it isn't ready yet, if it isn't, leave it for a few minutes and continue grouting some more. When it is firm enough to not drag out, use the pad to lightly scrub the face of the tiles, and then use the sponge to take up the residue. Warm water is OK, but I wouldn't be using the Remove yet. What you're trying to accomplish with the pad is to scrub the residue to an even, uniform, albeit heavy, film on the face of the tiles, then use the sponge to remove the film. Have the sponge heavy with water, but not dripping. Lay it flat on the tile, grab the top edge closest to you, and pull it diagonally toward you, keeping the sponge flat on the floor. You should have an almost clean surface. Flip the sponge over and make another pass on the next section, then rinse. You can do the same thing faster with an old bath towel. Wet it, wring it so it isn't dripping, and holding it by the corners, flop it out as flat as possible, so it settles flat on the floor. Grab the corners, but don't lift the towel from the surface of the floor, and pull it towards you. Kind of like using a chamois on your car. You want to always go from the floor to the first pail of cleaning water, so the heavy residue gets deposited there. Rinse and wring sponge or pad thoroughly, and then pick up fresh soultion from the second pail and take it to the floor. Never go from pail 1 to the floor. As for changing the water, when it becomes difficult to get the pad rinsed out in pail 1, dump the water, rinse it clean and refill it. Pail 2, which shouldn't be too dirty yet, becomes pail 1, and the fresh pail of water becomes pail 2. Check back frequently, and when the grout feels like it is beginning to harden, you can go back with the Remove in warm water and your pad and sponge to clean up the final residue. Follow the same 2 bucket method as the first time. If you see any traces of residue the day after, or if the floor feels tacky when you walk across it or to the touch, use the Remove again to clean it. Don't let it go more than 24 hours! You can use Remove full strength if you find a heavy deposit. But don't use it on marble or near brass.Hydroment 1900 is a great product, slow setting and very forgiving. You'll find the grout color will be richer than the sample (a bit darker) than the sample you chose. BTW, this product will not yield to vinegar and water for haze removal.
"When you point your finger, you got three long fingers pointing back at you". Mark Knophler
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Bruce, Andy provided some good info on epoxy grouting procedures and it provides more info than I could offer. I only have experience working with C-cure brand epoxy. It comes in 6lb (and larger) pails and you buy the catalyst in the proper color for your application. You just mix it right in the bucket it is packaged in and I have had no trouble mixing by hand as long as the grout is 65degrees or warmer. I think I paid about 25 dollars for a 6lb bucket.I think it is great for sink to countertop joints if you want to have a color matched sealant. Lately I have just been using clear silicone for stainless sinks under granite tops. When I was using the epoxy with undermount sinks and granite tops it worked great. The one time I had to tear out a countertop I had installed with epoxy over a cast iron sink, the epoxy ripped the porcelain enamel coating right off the cast iron. It seems to achieve an incredibly strong bond yet is still flexible enough to accomodate the differential expansion of a sink sealed against a stone countertop.Good Luck,
karl
No, epoxy grout will not help you.
You say newly installed kitchen cabinets -- is the floor newly installed as well? If so you need to get the floor guys back ASAP to pull up the tiles and fix the subfloor, assuming that it the problem. (It could be that the thinset was allowed to skin over and the tiles did not adhere well. Are any tiles loose?)
Cracking grout is almost never a grout problem It is a movement problem, and you need to get your floor redone. A solid subfloor, proper joists and spans, and possibly a decoupling membrane such as Ditra should all be considered. Sorry for the bad news.
Do you know what is under the tile?
Billy