So, I am waiting on a couple of tile installers to stop by today to price out (quote) on installation of large ceramic tiles in the family room. I hadn’t considered this before when working with tiles that were 13″ squares or smaller, but the wife has chosen 20″ tile squares.
The room is a 16′ x 18′ rectangle, with one corner tapered (45º angled wall measuring 4′) and a small hearth (1.5′ x 3.5′). The installers were chosen off of a list from a tile supplier. Not looking for an installer based on price, but curious as to the overage to get an idea what amount needs to be ordered.
Replies
Overage needed can depend on the pattern.
A straight stacked pattern, you might have a waste piece at each end of each course of tile. With a version of a running bond, you can use the waste piece at the end of one course as the first tile in the next course. For tiles set on a diagonal, you can have more waste. So it depends on the pattern plus the specific room measurements, etc.
Since these guys are through the tile supplier, the supplier might accept the return of any unused tile, even open boxes. But that depends on the tile ordered and the relationship between the installers and the supplier.
Regardless of the pattern, 20" tiles can be very tricky when it comes to lippage. Installation may go slower. The larger the tile, the flatter and stiffer the floor needs to be, and large tile usually requires a slightly thicker setting bed. To exaggerate a bit, smaller tile can follow the subtle contours of a non-flat subfloor, whereas a large tile might bridge and rock on a hump. Any "rocking" can push up the corner of a tile, causing lippage with the edge of the adjacent tiles that are again sitting on flatter subfloor.
Lippage can be near eliminated and the pace of installation increased with large format tiles by using something like the Tuscan Leveling System. With TLS your labor hours will be reduced, but it might be offset by the increase in materials cost for the TLS.
Extra Tile
I have stacks of tile in my garage from the 10% overages my tilers have purchased and charged me for over the years. So far, I haven't had to replace any of the original tiles, so this was a big waste of my money. I would guess more chance of error and breakage with 20 " tiles (why so big?), especially if the substrate weakens or loosens over time. Wasn't the idea of floor tile to provide a sturdy flooring through the use of SMALLER components? Will we next have 4' x 6' roofing shingles?
I start at 10% and go up from there. Larger format? Higher percentage waste. Diagonal Pattern? Higher percentage.
Quote
It was actually Winston Curchill to Lady Astor, commenting that he would be sober in the morning but she would still be ugly. 1912. Still a great idea.
Actually I believe she said if he were her husband she would poison his tea, and he said that if he was her husband he would gladly drink it.
And, like Yogi Berra, he only said half the things he said.
Yeah, what Scooter said.
You can usually work out the waste pretty accurately if you map it out, but the rules of thumb come pretty close. Note, though, that the minimum waste layout may not be the best looking layout.
Thing is, with a special-order tile you definitely don't want to pull up short, so you have to order a few extra for "what if" scenarios. Doubly true if there are situations where cutting the tile may be difficult and result in some spoilage.
For starters, I'd disregard the room's small cut corner and hearth. After that Mungo covered it.
To Mr "Extra Tile": It is kind of the nature of the beast. In most any phase of construction it is prudent to order a little extra material, but especially with tile. With tile, there are often differences in "dye lots" (or whatever you call it) so buying all the tile that could possible be needed at one time is essential. So your money wasn't wasted. That is just the way it is done. Once you have had to have brand new tile floor torn out becuse the last coupla peices didn't match you won't think the way you are now. This is a classic case of having limited HO expierence isn't the same as been there, done that, as a professional who has first hand expierenced with what can go wrong - and paying big for it. If you are that worried about wasting money on extra material, buy your tile someplace where you can return the extra.
BTW - in the last house I built for DW and I the foyer was done with a fake marble tile. Looked pretty cloise to real, and very slick and shiney. For some reason a joist went bad - bowed down badely after about 5 years. The floor developed a harline crack right across the middle. Looked like total cr@p when you looked at it from the right angle to catch the reflection. I went below the floor in the crawl space, sistered the joist, and then went and retrieved the 4 or so extra tiles (also in the CS) to repair the tile floor. Perfect match. Perfect repair. So, having extra tiles around isn't always a waste. I have extra tiles for the current house too. I keep the partially used grout bags too. Usually goes bad, but at least I know exactly what was used if a repair is necessary. It helps if you have an out of the way place to store the stuff - like a crawl space or attic.
I always store some grout in a mason jar.
Ok, I had a chance to talk to the wife about pattern and she wants to go with a straight pattern for a border and a 45º diagonal for the field. Two of the tile-supplier recommeded installers stopped by yesterday and they said 10% overage for potential waste. I think I am going to call a couple of more to come in an quote to be able to atleast say I did.
Both said it would be at least two days, which is fine. I work a lot from home and they can have at it.
It doesn't always come out how you planned...
One other general point about estimating materials: Above someone said, more or less, to figure out how exactly what your layout is and what tiles need to be cut, etc and somewhere else it was said that your least waste layout may not be your best looking layout. Enter the diagonal field you said DW wants: more complication.
As a new construction management type I routinely order materials that others will be installing. My point is that when someone else is doing the work they often don’t do it exactly how you (the person doing the ordering) thought it would be done. Also, unfortunately workers are not as careful with material waste when they are not paying for it and being extremely frugal with materials may not always be practical. So, if you figure out exactly what you need and say – even make a diagram for the installer, the first thing he is going to say when he shows up to do the install is that he knows a better way to do it. – and he very possibly does know a better way – what happens with the waste factor is question to be determined…
This is why a turn key price (labor and materials) is often your best method of pinpointing exactly what your cost will be and relieves you from the anxiety of wasted material. Conversely, when someone gives a turn key estimate they often use higher waste factors just to protect themselves, resulting in a higher overall cost.
I can give you a hundred stories of excessive material waste, and another hundred of how I reduced costs by getting the material myself. The caveat is though experience in ordering a specific material and experience in dealing with the specific type of job to be performed. I took an estimating class a number of years ago. Basically, it just came down to a list of different waste factors for different types of materials. The list items were only starting points though, as every material takeoff is tempered by the construction methods to be used and the people involved in the install.