I installed all of the hardware on my new Doug Fir exterior doors to make sure I had the mortises right before finishing them. When I removed the hardware, the two screws that hold the deadbolt into the edge of the door snapped off at the head.
Now what? I have seen the screw removal tools for when a phillips head is stripped, but they won’t work because there isn’t a head on the screw. I have considered trying to drill out the screws and find a larger screw that would fit in the (now bigger) hole. I decided to ask here first because I have no idea if that would work and don’t want to make things worse.
-Rich
Replies
Something like this works great. Woodcrafters sells them. Just plug back the hole.
http://www.woodcraft.com/search/search.aspx?query=screw+exstractors
Edited 2/8/2006 5:36 pm by jagwah
Edited 2/8/2006 5:36 pm by jagwah
Edited 2/8/2006 5:37 pm by jagwah
Would the hole that this leaves be a standard plug size? If so, that is a simple solution.-Rich
There sized for different size plugs to fit. A simple solution. I like the toothpick idea although just whitteling some similiar wood as needed would work as well.
It's fussing with these things which slow a project down. I usally ride the new screw along side the broken one at a slight angle. make sure to pre drill a pilot hole first.
new screw along side the broken one at a slight angle
Bad idea. When the screw snugs up, it's gonna try to pull the hardware off center. Better to remove the bad screw and plug the hole.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Use a plug cutter, probably a 3/8" size. If you want you can buy precut 3/8" plugs.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
If you use a 3/8 plug-cutter, at least one that will cut deep enuf to get to the base of the screw, yer probably have to end up filling the hole with a 1/2" dowel. Which would likely still be covered by the hardware.
Greenlee used to make really deep plug cutters, also sold years ago by Craftsman. They were good tools. There are some cheap imports on the market, around 10-13 us$ for a set of sizes which might serve as disposables, although they might need sharpening to cut resoanbly. I looked on Ebay to point you in the right direction, but all I saw was the imports, not any quality tool Still, for a few doors, a disposable might be all you need.
If you did use a pilot hole and supplied screws and the screws still broke, by all means complain to the mfgr. As more and more of these essential fastenings get out-sourced overseas, QC is one of the first areas to suffer.
If no one complains, it will just get worse.
Eric
Eric
If you have a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel cut a slot in the shank of the screw and use a flathead screwdriver to turn them out
That can be a hard, hard thing to pull off, especially if an oversize hole of any size will show from under the edge of the hardware.
If you do have a bit of room to play with, a 1/16" drill bit can be used to ring the broken screw. The ragged hole can then be plugged with a square sliver of wood driven in with a little wood glue. Center punching the plug with an awl will further spread the wood plug tight to the hole.
Hard screws can be very difficult to drill out through the center. I have a broke screw remover used by gunsmiths on small screws and it's ok, but getting a good hole in the center of a hard screw is the most difficult part.
I'll second putting a slot on the screw with a dremel tool. If the wood is tight and the screw doesn't want to back out, applying heat with a decent size soldering iron will burn away some wood and make the screw much easier to move.
Doug fir holds screws so well and splits fairly easily so this is somewhat dangerous, but if you're comfortable with how hard you can safely hit it, try punching it deeper with an old center punch. This is probably my first choice if the jamb is backed up well at this location since it's quick.
Good extracting to all,
Don
Don, instead of a center punch, a through punch works much better. I normally have three sizes.
blue
Both screws snapped? Son of a #####! I would drill out the screws. True, you will be left with a larger ragged hole. A larger ragged hole that will be completely covered by the metal plate, so you will never see it.
And it just so happens that I know the secret to fixing this ragged hole problem... are you ready for this...FLAT Toothpicks (not round, not square). Cover the toothpicks in glue, cram them in that hole, and trim the ends off with a utility knife. No need to wait for the glue to set up, it will be ready for those screws immediatley.
--Andy
Good tip on the flat toothpicks. I gotta get me some. I always thought they were useless, but it is logical that they are way better than round for this application. Thanks.Bill
Matchsticks work well too--the old style wooden kitchen matches. You can actually pound them into the holes.
golf tees--Tapered and a handy head to strike--Come in pretty colors too!Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
I like some golf tee action used it before ands works good. Only $2 for a bag of tapered hardwood plugs. When your done with work you've got to drop off your leftover materials at the course.
Only $2 for a bag of tapered hardwood plugs---You mean you acually buy yours? once you are on the course your tee plugs are free--I spend enough time in the woods to find way more balls than I lose and plenty of tees left on the box---IAC it is a tip worth passing around----Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Well, here's the follow-up.I went for the $2 "easy-out" first. Start cheap, right? Didn't work. Either the metal of the screw was too soft, or the diameter of the screw was too small to allow much of the easy out to get a decent purchase, but regardless it didn't budge and the easy-out just turned in the hole.I decided to skip the dremel step because I wasn't impressed with the strength of the screw, so I didn't think it would hold a slot for a flat-head screwdriver.I went for the $12 hollow drill bit (actually got it at Rockler, BONUS: they had baltic birch ply for 50% off all thicknesses. I bought a stack of it). This worked great, with only a few kinks. I drilled a standard 3/8" hole in a piece of 3/4 ply, so the hollow bit wouldn't jump around and clamped it in place over the broken screws. Once I got the hole started, I had to remove the ply to get more depth. These bits aren't particularly long.Two issues arose: First, the solid sides of the bit create a good bit of friction on the sides of the hole and actually burn the wood a bit. This may not be an issue in a drill press, but that wasn't an option for me on this full size door. The burned wood may not absorb glue well when you glue the plug in. It wasn't an issue for me (the deadbolt screws won't see much force) but might be for others trying this for different uses. If this is an issue for you, you could drill out the new hole with a standard bit of the next size plug you have. Second, the first plug broke off inside the bit and I had a heck of a time getting it out. It slid half way out with me pounding on a screwdriver with the bit in a set of pliers, but the second half had to be drilled out! Luckily the bit has teeth on both ends, so I drilled out the second plug before I messed with the stuck piece. Then, I didn't care about the bit as much, so I was free to try whatever it took.The dowels went in great and the new screws are holding well. Yes, I predrilled, and no I didn't drive the screws with the drill. I may not be smart, but I'm trainable!Thanks again for all of the tips! It kept me from ruining a $500 door.-Rich
Have done the toothpick trick for along time before I came across a large supply of popsicle sticks these work for all kinds of enlarged holes as well as shims in unique instances.You can cut them down to the size you need and taper the shape so that they fill the hole completely.I also use them as temporary fingers to hold pieces of wood tight while glue is drying and as temporary straight edges when building up rot areas on window sills.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
Another trick is bamboo skewers. The bamboo is tough, but not hard.
Seeking perfection in an imperfect world is a fool's errand. Making something look perfect is a whole 'nother story . . . .
Use a small gouge or knife to cut a shallow depression around the broken screw. Grab the exposed shank with Vicegrips (preferably relatively new ones with some bite left on the tips of the jaws) and wind it out. You can then reuse the holes with longer screws or drill out and plug. I prefer one of these from Lee Valley and you can use hardwood dowels if you don't like the cedar that is supplied. Drill pilot holes, lube the screws with wax, and get better screws than the ones supplied because they are too soft.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32280&cat=1,180,42240,53317&ap=1
r.........ask Piffin when he comes back....:)
Use left handed drill bits. These are available from Snap-On, machineist suppliers and industrial supply houses (like mscdirect.com). Expensive, but can save time if the bit catches on the screw and unscrews it. Start with small diameter and work to larger diameter.
Not woodworking, but I once got a broken head bolt out of a diesel engine without removing the head!
Frank DuVal
You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Left thread bits are available at Harbor freight. But the kit only has 4 bits with a big spread in size.
I would punch it around a bit, dig out some wood, and vise grip it out myself.
The standard machine shop tool for this is called an "Easy Out". It kinda looks like a tapered left hand drill with four flutes. Imagine a four sided tapered piece of steel twisted to form the left hand spiral, that's more what they look like. You do have to drill a hole down into the broken screw to get the easy out in.
BTW, what kind (brand) of deadbolt is this? It sounds like bad metallurgy QC on the screws, which would lead me to suspect the quality of the rest of the lock.
-- J.S.
Wow, thanks to all. I have been too busy to check back on the thread and now have many possible options. I bought what sounds like the "Easy Out" today for $2. If that doesn't work I'll try the dremel idea and then go for the $12 wooodcraft tool to core out the whole thing.The door hardware was made by Bravura. It was expensive (which doesn't always mean quality), but not ridiculously so. It is my impression that the door knobs and lock are of good quality (no cheap plastic parts), but perhaps not great screws.Thanks again!-Rich
Be careful with how much you torque on the easy out. Exactly 3 times I've made the mistake of breaking off the easy out in the screw. If you think that drilling into the screw was hard, just try drilling the easy out. 2 of my cases of breaking the easy out off turned a 20 minute job of changing an automotive thermostat out into 3/4 of a day project. In those 2 cases after ruining lots of bits and getting the holes way off center, I ended up drilling and tapping new holes next to the old ones. It would have saved a lot of time in each case, just drilling the screws completely without even trying the easy out.It took me 3 times to learn that if enough torque was applied to break off the head in the first place, it may take enough torque to break off the easy out also. I usually learn the slow and hard way.
Been there done that. My usual was water pump bolts. At least t-stat bolts are usuallye easier to get at. Found it best to start with small pilot hole as dead close to center as possible. Slowly work up to largs hole/easy out possible.Sometimes, if really dead center, can drill bigger and bigger until all that's left is the old screw threads that you can 'coil' out.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
easy outs like this????
http://www.toolprice.com/product/1219A"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree."
- W.C. Fields
Nobody mentioned a welder yet. Or EDM.
Granted, almost nobody has an EDM on site (good for getting broken taps and 'easy outs' out of holes), but many have a welder - do a quick jab and spot weld the tip of a 7018 or 7024 rod to the butt of the screw and extract it. Drive a small finishing nail in next to the broken screw for the ground.
A trick I use on decking screws when they strip before being completely driven is to remove the driver tip from my drill chuck and chuck the drill (as snugly as you can)around the remainder of the head of the screw. Put the drill in reverse and slowly back it out. This wouldn't work on a hinge screw gone awry but does more times than not when enough screw is still proud of the wood. The vice grip idea is likely the way to go on that one. I've also drilled out the head with a bit slightly smaller than a #3 square drive and tap the tip into the hole. Sometimes it works, other times not. In any of these approaches, finesse is a mighty fine thing to have in your efforts.
Rich,
They sell an extraction tool that is like a small hole saw. Drill it in, and snap off the screw and surrounding wood. Then put in a dowel with glue, and rescrew.
PV Rich
PS Get a cordless impact driver - I just got one and they drive anything - in and out without camming out of the slot. Best tool I have bought in 10 years! Check Ebay