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About 10 years ago FHB had an article about oil-based and water-based urethane finishes for wood strip flooring. The author was doing a time/yellowing/acid/wear Test on dozens of large floor sections in his warehouse and the article had side-by-side comparisons of the products. Well, that was about 10 years ago, I was wondering if I could hear recommendations on finishing wood strip floors, like oak. I’m particularly interested in non-yellowing or lower-yellowing finishes as the project I have coming-up is for a bright sunroom/studio and I want things to be “bright” inside.
I know that water-based technology is always changing that’s why I’m interested in an update.
I recall an old-timer (finisher) telling me he would “never, ever, use anything other than oil-based” because of durability. Can anyone weigh in on this point?
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CHECK OUT BONATRAFFIC BY BONAKEMI
http://WWW.BONAKEMI.COM
*Expert:Thanks. That issue I was referring too in the original post was from April '91. They did mention, as I have gone back to it now, that Bonakemi was the leader in waterborne finishes. I've checked out the website. Looks like they have improved the products even more.
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Our floor guy also uses Bonakemi, seems to work great, never a problem. One warning, though. Last big job he did for us he used "Vision" stain, I don't know a whole lot about it, but it is a water based stain that requires a proprietary sealer. He did everything to the letter, and the finish started bubbling up from the stain about three weeks later. The reps came out to look, and they didn't admit that it was a problem with the product, but we all feel that it was some sort of chemical reaction. Our floor guy had a similar problem with another job a few weeks earlier. He ended up eating about $5000 worth of labor.
Maybe WOODFLOOREXPERT can shed more light on the specifics of the "VISION" product, but I don't think my floor guy will ever use it again.
*Hello PRB,I just installed and finished 300 sq' of mixed ash, gum, and pecan hardwood flooring in my own home. I finished it with DuraSeal 1000 waterbased finish. My top coats were satin. This product was easy to use, fast drying, only moderately yellowing and easy to apply. No stain was used as I prefered to keep it simple and bright. DuraSeal makes several products DuraSeal 1000 is what I used. Definitely would use this product again if I was finishing a floor in my own home. The thing is, I would sub out the job if it was for my client. Not an expert at this just your average Joe.
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THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF COMPANIES THAT MANUFACTURE STAINS. I USE ONLY FINISHES AND STAIN THAT HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO WORK FOR ME. I WILL TRY TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE VISION PRODUCT. IF THIS HAPPENED ON THE ENTIRE FLOOR THERE WOULD BE A PROBLEM WITH THE FINISH BUT IF THE FINISH DID NOT ADHERE TO CERTAIN AREAS THE FLOOR SOMEHOW GOT CONTAMINATED
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WOODFLOOR EXPERT, STOP SHOUTING!
*Ahh leave the poor guy alone, he just wants to make sure you know that HE IS A WOOD FLOORING EXPERT!!!-pm
*WHAT?Rich Beckman
*JUST A SEC!! I'LL TURN OFF THE DUST COLLECTOR, AND YOU CAN TAKE OFF YOUR EARPHONES!!!
*YEH PATRICK THAT'S ......oh , sorry , thats much better .
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I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT VISION STAINS.IN MY PAST EXPERIENCES I HAVE ALWAYS USED AN OIL BASED STAIN.
IN REGARD TO YOUR PROBLEM IF YOUR CONTRACTOR USED THE VISION STAIN AND PROPIERTORY SEALER AND FINISH MAYBE THE FINISH AND SEALER ARE UN COMPATIBLE. I HAD A FLOOR WHERE THE SEALER AND FINISH FROM TWO DIFFERENT MANUFACTURES DID NOT HAVE TIME TO GAS OFF AND THE FLOOR FINISH NEVER DRIED.I NOW GET ALL JOBS SIGNED OFF BEFORE I DO ANY UNORTHODOX WORK.
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I guess the poor sucker is deaf. .. either that or he has those permanent hearing protection things implanted. I SAID YOU MUST BE DEAF. . . oh never mind.
-pm
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I AM NOT DEAF.I JUST CHOOSE TO TYPE ALL MY WORK IN CAPITAL LETTERS.
*I believe Vision stain is manufactured by Basic Coatings. I have used some of their finishes in the past, pretty decent but a few quirks. Heart Pine makes up about 2/3 of my flooring business and Basic stuff doesn't like that wood at all. I use BonaKemi Mega with great results on everything I do. One thing about Basic that I have noticed is that their dry times are a heck of a lot longer than what they say on the container. If it says 3 hrs., double it. Perhaps this is the problem that the other guy had. I have had some Basic finish do the big peel-o-rama because it didn't dry enough for a recoat. Ate about 3K on that one myself. Andy H. Floor guy in Hendersonville, NC
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I think that is probably what happened - the problem occurred on the whole floor. It was a shame - the color of the stain was fantastic, but not worth the trouble. My floor sub re-did the whole thing with oil-base, which worked just fine.
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Hello:
I am the poor flooring contractor that used the Basic Coating's Vision stain, Vision sealer and three coats of street shoe. The job looked fantastic. I went on vacation and when I got back, the homeowner called about the finish bubbling off. I looked at it the same day and it looked like the sealer bubbling off from the stain. When the vision stain is used, you MUST coat the floor after one hour to three hours max. If the stain is not coated by three hours it will start to lose the color.
This was the forth job with this product and the last. And this is the only water based stain on the market. If an oil based stain is used, than a 72 hour dry time is required before top coating with a water-based poly.
I love the Bonikemi products and have used them for many years. The water-based poly does not leave bubbles in the topcoat finish like the Basic coating product does. But the Boni line does not include water based stains.
I have about 13 years experience with water based products.
Here is a picture http://www.hardwoodfloor.com/basic_coatings_vision_stain.html
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About 10 years ago FHB had an article about oil-based and water-based urethane finishes for wood strip flooring. The author was doing a time/yellowing/acid/wear Test on dozens of large floor sections in his warehouse and the article had side-by-side comparisons of the products. Well, that was about 10 years ago, I was wondering if I could hear recommendations on finishing wood strip floors, like oak. I'm particularly interested in non-yellowing or lower-yellowing finishes as the project I have coming-up is for a bright sunroom/studio and I want things to be "bright" inside.
I know that water-based technology is always changing that's why I'm interested in an update.
I recall an old-timer (finisher) telling me he would "never, ever, use anything other than oil-based" because of durability. Can anyone weigh in on this point?