I’ve been asked to give bids for a log home, and what i’m doing is the subfloor on top of the foundation wall ( normall so far ) and then the log home co. installs the log portion including stairs, second story half logs for joists, and they also install ridge and perlins. So MY job is to install windows,doors, interior walls, decks, second story exterior walls, dormers and a roof system for all that.
My question is should I do SIP’s for the roof, and how much work is that? And how much work entails framing the doors and windows and casing too? I looked at a log home just the other day and the door bucks or box around the log opening seems rough and crude, but it was comfortable inside. If anyone has done this let me have some feed back.
I can get SIPs with pine t&G v groove that’s already on the bottom, so that’s a time saver.
Seems to me most of the work in this house is my part or close to it in my figuring. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks
Replies
how detailed on the trim do want to get??? or are you capeable of doing???
what type of ceiling???
rafters???
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As you might have dealt with before, there are no details for the trim. The rafters call out for 11 7/8 TJI 360 rafters @ 24" o.c. with pine v-groove for the ceiling. But I know I can do anything I want ( I think I can use the SIPs). I'm sure my client wants the basic trim package cause money is tight, and I know her well as far as her pickyness.
so you gonna be scribing or pocketing (mortising) in yur trim???
you plan on there being a cieling????
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What do you mean mortising my trim. I do understand using pocket screws to hold the head trim pc. to the legs. I'm really unsure what hell I'll be doing. That's why I should ask for details or just bid it as how I should have it done, and if she doesn't like the way it's done we will adjust the contract or change order.
with a new log structure it will move more than you will ever be willing to believe the first year to two years....
you rush to completion it will show... so take yur time... don't waste the materials, money or time... some of the work can and will be a pain... why go thru it a second time...
is it stacked logs???
will the logs be pinned or thru bolted???
is it a "real log" complete with interlock???
or is it turned/milled/shaped or tuned logs???
will draw cables be used???
there are a multitude of ways to trim out a log home... knowing details helps... how you want to trim dictates the methods to get there... visulize the finished product and we can go from there...
trim as you know it will take 2 or 3 times as long to do in a log house... fit is the hold up... the center line of the walls maybe the plumbest you've met but the verticale outter surface is about equvalilant to a moonscape...
so you are either going to scribe (not the best of good ideas on a new log) or you are cut out pockets (mortise) in the walls to recieve the framing, DW and trim....
bid what you are comfortable with and add at least 50% labor to that... you do not have a cake and pie job here by any stretch of the imagination... you can take short cuts... but they will look like short cuts... you can save time and work in the process by establishing a working method/system to get where you are going...
so we need to know all about what final you are after and what you expect it to look...
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WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have to agree, it's incredible how much log homes settle-move.
From what I've seen the partition wall are built in two pieces so the height can change one to two inches.
While the windows are installed and the trim just tacked up , so you can adjust them two years later.
"money is tight, and I know her well as far as her pickyness."Ouch!
A picky client with a tight budget has no business building a log home
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I've finished off a few log homes. Prepare for EVERYTHING to take about twice or three times as long as conventional. I personally wouldn't bid one unless I had done several from the same builder. There are just too many variables. Allowing for settling is a big time sucker--slip joint trim on the windows, partitions, etc.
Can't really comment about SIPs since I haven't used them. Seems like they might work though. We used a parallel chord truss set on log purlins.
So the ones you did do, you just did time and materials or cost plus? Do I just tell her that? What you say makes me say no &^$&^ way I'm going to bid it. Which is fine with me. Thanks for the input.
Yes, I finished two rather large log homes and both of them we insisted on time and material. We gave the first guy an estimate, which we exceeded by 100%. Luckily he had deep pockets and was thrilled with our work.
She's getting a loan from the bank and it seems to me this can go terribly in the red. As I just came from a home ( I quit that job after I shelled the home and saw the writting on the wall ) that my ex boss just finished and he now owes the homeowner $60,000 with a promissory note, says to me it's not worth it, especially doing something for the first time on something as unconventional as this.
I can only give her my opinion and a T & M contract and leave it at that. I'm sure I will let her down but better now than broke later and that goes for me too!
My old partner (who I finished the two log homes with) told me recently that a turnkey log home is going for 400 bucks a square foot these days. This is an old fashioned log house, with hand scribed natural logs. I imagine the kits are somewhat faster to finish, but I have looked at the end product and it still looks like a lot of monkeying around. People still make the mistake of looking at a the cost of a log shell and thinking that they are almost done with the house--heck, the fun has just barely begun.
750/800$SF for a a bit better... McMansion types 2/3K....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's exactly what I think. I did a kit house where the kit came in 8 or 10ft lenghts with siding on and windows in but I had to stand those heavy &^%$ pcs and nail them together. Yea it was fast but as you said the fun just began. I had to sheet the gables, install porches all the HD's had to be perfect in the foundation, oh yea I had to build the foundation and the build up and subfloor. OH think it's mostly all done all ya gotta do is blankdy blank blank !!! Never again, plus the subfloor better be perfectly flat and level or the pot plates don't line up.
First - start with t he log home company for these answers. Most have requirements or details suggested. There are so many kinds of log construction that it is hard to generalize. They can say how the interior walls should intersect and what details work for allowing settling of the structure, a primary consideration
SIPs for the roof sound very good.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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The new JLC has an article on SIP roofs.
Joe H