I’m looking at the 10″ 15-Amp Table Saw with Stand Model# FS210LS. From black and decker, I know you don’t like them, but the price is right, and it is almost a contractor saw, (hybrid of a protable and contractor) It comes with a 2 year warrenty. what do you all think. I would love to get that bosch 4000-90, but it is out of the price range.
Look ma, no jigs!!!
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Replies
I'm not familiar with the Firestorm tablesaw and I'm sure few here are. But it's probably worth what it costs if you're not using it constantly day in and day out. I've had some very good B&D tools before they became DeWalt. This is not the last tablesaw you'll ever own and you're not staking your livelyhood on it. Get it and use it for a couple of years. You'll know exactly what to look for when you buy the next one. Just be carefull with it. Tablesaws and RAS are the two most dangerous power tools IMHO.
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
"Tablesaws and RAS are the two most dangerous power tools IMHO"
IMHO also.
thanks for the info
Look ma, no jigs!!!
I'm with JulianTracy. The saw is likely a piece of krap, and the warranty is all but worthless.
I went to a fancy french restaurant called "Deja Vu." The headwaiter said, "Don't I know you?"
Here is a biased opinion: Cheap table saws should be outlawed because they are inherently dangerious. I bought a $99 Firestorm knowing exactly what I was buying. A cheap saw to leave at the house I was working on. Somebody steals it, so what. Been using power tools with no accidents for 40 years.
Had to put a bag of concrete on the legs to keep it from falling over while using it. The list of safety problems is long. I ended up getting hurt and almost loosing a finger (still have it) and I think I know what I'm doing, more or less. After my hand healed I took the saw apart and threw it in the dumpster. Couldn't ethically sell it.
Cost of a finger vs cost of a table saw??? I got the numbers.
Be safe, have fun.
Jim
Andy,
Don't make the same mistakes I did when I was your age, I bought some cheap tools along the way and some good ones. The good ones I still have and use 15 years later, the cheap ones are long gone.
Save your money until you have the extra $150-200 for the better table saw and you'll be much happier in the long run.
You can usually find either the Bosch or the Dewalt, both good tools, for around $350.00 reconditioed. Reconditioned tools are just as good as "new" and come with the same warranty.
You might also check out craigslist in your area and be able to find a used tool for a savings, stay out of the pawn shops
Neil
Seriously though - have you ever seen ANY firestorm product that wasn't a total pc of ####?
Why think a table saw would be any different?
What do they sell for? $125-150?
If you must cheap it out - you can find used USA delta made direct drive benchtop saws all day long for under $100 on CL around here.
Or, look for a Ryobi BT3000 saw - they sold for close to $500 but sell now on CL for $100-200 and are highly regarded for what they offer. (early ones made in USA).
Or, I'm always seeing Makita 2708 saws on Cl for $100 and under - from what I've heard, they won't die, but the fence isn't that great. But what's the chance a fence on a firestorm sucks too?
Here's a tip if you need one right now - at my local Bosch service centers, they have some Skil table saw's refurbed for decent prices - I'd trust an older refurbed Skil over a B&D anytime. They both make basic homeowner ####, but at least some of Skil's stuff seems to have the Bosch engineering in it's DNA.
Even the $200 Ryobi craptastic saw at HD would have to be better than a firestorm tablesaw.
For such an important tool - if you can afford $125, than you ought to be able to swing another $70.
Check out the Jet belt drive benchtop tablesaw at Amazon.com - they were selling as low as $170 shipped a while back - some even had the whole stand setup too at a similar price.
Good luck,
Julian
<< Seriously though - have you ever seen ANY firestorm product that wasn't a total pc of ####? >>
We've got a Firestorm cordless drill back in the wood shop - that thing is a work horse. I used to think the same things about Ryobi, and now I've been impressed with more and more of their stuff as well.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Friends don't let Friends buy Ryobi!"
But then again I'am not you friend!!
Andy mow, a few more yards & save your money & buy a real table saw!
I just noticed you mention that the FS saw is some sort of hybrid. What makes you think that?
It's simply a benchtop direct drive, universal motor tablesaw on a stand, right?
JT
Ok, now I just looked at your profile to see where you were located cause I figured I'd check CL for you...Than I notice you're a young guy. Hat's off to you for being here - heck of a resource - kind of neat to think about the fact that you are skimming your info from such a knowledgeable group of people at such a young age.So - I realize that money's key for you on this purchase, but still, I'd advise you to hold off and buy a good saw used rather than a crappy saw new. Have a bit of patience and I guarantee you'll be glad you didn't buy a FS saw.You know, air compressors are rated in Duty cycles - meaning that industrial ones are rated for 100% duty, whereas lighter duty ones are rated at maybe 35-50% duty rating. I'm probably off with my numbers, but the point is - those FS products are NOT designed for any kind of real regular use.And what good is that warranty gonna do you if they hassle you over how it was used or take 2-3 months to get parts in, or make you ship it out, etc.?I'd be wary of putting too much faith in the 2 year warranty itself, especially seeing as how you should make the assumption you'll be needing it sometime in those two years.Look at CL in your area every day - you see a deal - be ready to jump on it. I can't begin to tell you how many screamin deals on tools I get from CL - mainly cause I'm always looking and because I don't hesitate.good luck,Julian
Like everyone else has said, watch craigslist. Find a nice old cast iron table saw, that weighs a ton. (Craftsman or Delta/Rockwell) If you need a portable saw, find another cheap one on craigslist, they can be found for about $50, I've got a cheap Delta direct drive for this purpose, it doesn't cut great, but most of the time it is more than enough, and I paid $40 for it.
I admit--I don't know where Cohasset,MA is. But you probably don't know where Gun Barrel City, TX is either, so we're even.
Where you DO have an advantage on us is that on this forum you can learn from someone else's mistakes. Trust me, we've all made a few. I think you might try some local tool repair places for the occasional bargain, or ask around at school. Maybe a friends dad or granddad no longer needs his table saw. If you can hold out for a decent contractor's saw you'll be glad you did.
Good luck and let us know.
I would love to get a contractor's saw, and I would LOVE to get a cabinet saw, but I just don't have the room.
Ok, I'm not going w/ the firestorm,
what do you all think about the Jet 708315LSB http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100399037&navFlow=3&keyword=708315lsb+&langId=-1&searchRedirect=708315lsb&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.catalog.beans.EndecaDataBean%405246de14&ddkey=Search
Look ma, no jigs!!!
So, how 'bout the Jet 708315LSB?
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100399037&navFlow=3&keyword=708315lsb+&langId=-1&searchRedirect=708315lsb&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.catalog.beans.EndecaDataBean%405246de14&ddkey=Search
Look ma, no jigs!!!
Hi Andy,Whatever you do - check Amazon before you buy anything at HD online. You'll pay taz from HD, at Amazon none, + you usually get free shipping.That's the jet I was referring to. It has universal motor like the other benchtops, but is unique in that it is a belt drive to the blade arbor.It's been out for a while now - do some checking at JLC forums - there's been quite a few threads from folks that have bought it and have been using it.From what I've gleaned - it's generally though of as a pretty solid value for $200 or so and is about the best way to spend that much money new in a saw.As I mentioned, they had some crazy deals on it at Amazon last year maybe where the whole package could be had for under $200 shipped. keep your eyes posted.Watch out for your local Lowes. Maybe too late for it, but all of them have been clearing out the Bosch 4000 saw for $364 or less to make room for the 4100 series saws.That's with the gravity stand. If you could find one, you could prob sell the stand for $120 or so making for a decent overall deal on the saw itself.I have the Bosch 4000 and have had it for 7 years or so - picked it up when they first came out. heckuva saw, though mine's getting a bit long in the tooth these days...Good luck,Julian
I've looked around
HD- $250
Lowes- $350
Sears- $300
amazon- $294-$307
Look ma, no jigs!!!
Andy,
Get the Dewalt portable 745 and add the Rousseau set ups. Noticed you were in high school, your gift wish list should be easy. The cheap table saws will mame you as others have said. A bad fence binds the wood and next thing you know either the breaker trips or your work is shot in to your right arm or rib cage. Don't ask why I mentioned those body parts.
Edited 4/15/2008 10:14 pm ET by shellbuilder
Andy,
Not sure if you're interested, but there's an older rockwell saw on cl for $ 30.00 in Pawtucket,RI. If you call on it and end up working a deal, I can grab it for you and arrang to meet up. The picture looks like it's pretty clean, and Rockwell made some decent tools in their day.
Bing
keep talking....
what size, if you are close enough could you check it out. see condidtion of fence/mitre gauge, does it run well. Mabey post a link
Look ma, no jigs!!!
C'mon now young man. You know how to use craigslist, right? :)http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/641828616.html'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
nevermind, i just looked at it, and it doesn't seem too great
Look ma, no jigs!!!
If you are looking for a good, cheap, quality saw, then go with what Fine Homebuilding recommended as their "Best Value" contractor saw - the Ryobi!
I bought one on that recomendation, and I am very happy with my purchase. I replaced a crappy craftsman saw that was begging to take a finger from me. This saw folds up nice, has a place to store everything, and has no problem ripping 4x4 stock. The table even extends to 30", with outfeed support. Everything is very, very stable.
Can be had for less than $200, when i bought it 2 y.a.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100593232&N=10000003+90401+500744
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
Paul.
I have that saw and think it is a piece of s%^t through and through. Dust blows straight up at you, the fence might stay straight for ripping 3 feet of 1x if you're lucky, the noise. It folds up really clever is the only thing good about this hunk of junk.
are you sure there is enough tension on the fence, on many saws you can adjust the amount of tension by either turning the handle or a a screw
Look ma, no jigs!!!
Hey Andy,
I was just thinking, you seam to also be getting into
furniture making.
For me all these cheap saws were useless as soon as I
started trying finer woodwork.
There is a reason cabinet saws weigh so much!
Hold out and save up for something that will meet
your needs. I know it's hard, I'm an impulse buyer from
way back myself. I've gotten rid of several cheap saws,
because I was impatient and bought ####.
Hi Andy,Just wanted to add that you should check Craigslist many times a day!Juts called on a few bar clamps that someone was selling for $5 each (including a few bessys) and the guy happened to mention he had a table saw.Went and looked and ended up getting a like new Jet 10" contractors saw with 30" fence for $100. Also came with a $260 Accumiter guage and a $230 new in box Mulecab aftermarket tablesaw fence.Ended up paying the guy $160 total and got about $1615 retail of stuff.Table saw even came with a welded HTC mobile base.One of my better CL deals today I'd say.Good luck - keep looking - it'll come up.JT
Honestly, my experience is different. I never have dust blowing right back at me. I have knocked the fence out of allignment though... feeding through a 20' long wet 2x6. Other than that I've always been happy with the saw.
Not to say i don't have my eye on the new Bosch 4100 though. I'm leary of table saws enough in general to appreciate the built in saftey features.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
Whatever you get, I would recommend a belt drive.
any reason?
that is what i'm planning to get
Look ma, no jigs!!!
I think they are quieter and have less vibration. Less vibration should give a cleaner cut. Knots would be a good place for more advice.