I’m asking for quotes to build concrete steps and landing for my front entrance. Width of landing and steps is 6 feet. Total length (including run of steps) is about 10 ft. Depth of landing will be about 4 ft because of existing grade. Total volume of the steps and landing is 7 cu. yds. I’m on pretty high clay content soil. Soil is undisturbed.
The first quote I got seemed pretty good to me ($2,500 Cdn or about $1,800 US) but didn’t include pouring a footing which I expected would be required for such a mass of concrete. which explains the good price.
My question: Should I insist on a footing (say 10 ft wide)? Is compacted 8″ of GA enough instead?
Replies
Can anyone help? Footings or no footings? How deep should AG be?
Canoe--
I tore off a set of brick steps not quite as big as yours, but close, and it had no footing and had stood for 40 years with no problem. It was on pretty good soil, basically compacted sandy type stuff with some minor clay in it.
When I put the steps back on, I poured a footing 12" thick with rebar. It was on top of 2' of gravel or so. The reason I did this was because we had been digging around the house so my choice was backfill or gravel and then footing.
I'd opt for the footing as it didn't cost much at all to form it and pour it. Toss in rebar, #4 or #5 on 1' centers each way. But you can more than likely get away with no footing. Might be worth mechanically compacting before starting the first course.
MERC
Right - and your steps were built in a part of the country that has no frost line to speak of. Apparently, the guy who asked the question lives in Canada.
To me the steps not only need to have a footer but needs to be pined to the structure that the steps will access. Other wise, the steps will move up and down as the ground freezes. On the other hand, I don't know squat about building in areas with serious frost lines. Matt
Don't pn it. Either get a footing below frost or let it float.ICe exerts boucoup tons of pressure, it will break something with just pins
SamT
Doh! Yes, I forgot to mention that I was in Ottawa, Canada. Frost line here 6 feet (according to city code but I've put fence posts to 3' and they haven't budged an inch in 6 years).
Also, steps don't meet house so pinning to another structure is not an option. The steps will stop in front of a porch.
Is it common practice to go down 6' in this case? If I don't I worry that the two wooden porch steps that I will have sitting on the concrete landing will get wrenched around during heave.
Sam - did you interpret my comment to mean to install a footer that did not go below frost line? That was not what I meant.
Again, I don't build in Canada. My thought though is if the steps are allowed to float, the step height between the building and the stair set will change over time and a gap may open up between the steps and the porch. To the original poster: A fence and 10 ton set of steps are probably not to similar.
Matt
Edited 9/30/2004 6:37 am ET by DIRISHINME
I knew what you meant, I wanted to be sure he knew.
No harm, no foul meant.
Samt
I just built a wood deck this summer and I live in Canada. I spent alot of time asking the building inspector questions and getting his permission for my ideas.
I fastened the deck to the house on a ledge and put down 4 4' concrete footings with bulges at the bottom. The stairs off my deck (also wood) were required to be screwed into concrete; however, according to the code in Ontario (as approved by my local building inspector), regular concrete slab patio stones (18" x 18", or 24" x24" is what I asked about) are just fine. No footing required. I actually poured a 4" pad for it since I had extra bags of premixed concrete left. This was all approved.
My front porch, which is really old, is built on no foundation at all and really scares me. I jacked it up and put some temporary supports underneath (also approved by the building inspector) since it supports an overhung roof... When you run across something like this in your own house you really appreciate building codes.
I asked about footings etc... when I actually repair this. The inspector told me 4' footings beneath the frost line etc... However, he also told me that he classed this as a repair, not a rebuild, and not to worry about it being inspected. I will probably do the footings anyway, in a year or two... What is there now is much better than what was there before and the house has been around since 1910.
There is my two cents based on an inspectors comments in South Western Ontario, right on Georgian Bay (Owen Sound, if it matters). Just giving you the exact location so that you can compare. My soil is fairly hard packed clay with gravel and stone mixed in. Good bearing strength.
Almost all concrete slabs used as porches around Denver are poured around several lengths of rebar that are buried in the foundation when it is poured. Two different pours but I've seen many a porch slab actually in place with absolutely no support under them. They just hang on that foundation rebar which goes below frost level. Now I have installed some mountain decks and they have a 4' frost free depth. Denver is 3'. Remember, whatever the depth, the footing just goes to that depth--not below it. Would I be looking for a footing when nothing contacts the foundation? You bet. Dig to the frostfree depth (It might take more than one hole), Slip a Sonotube into it (the one for the step would be in the center) bend some rebar (two to each side--like a "T"), form up the step, pour concrete for footing & step in one pour. Or if you are going to have two or three steps, form them up and make one pour. Probably you'll have two Sonotubes w/rebar. Pressure treated foundations can hold up a house but I don't think you want to get into that.
Almost sounds like the steps will be going up to a deck. Are they? One Sonotube with grade level "T" for the wood stringers to rest upon. Recent weather (last few years) in Colorado have dried out the soil--sidewalks have cracked, then intruding water froze and things heaved. Sometimes the first concrete steps of porches moved too--usually down. If there is any way to pin a "surface covering" like a side walk or patio to the house foundation I would do it. Hammerdrill a tight hole below the slab surface and sledge in the length of rebar in the hole. Bend to fit. You can even epoxy the rebar in the hole and it will never come out. Of course the guy you hire knows all of this. Make sure it is in the specifications. Not just "fix porch". Renting does have benefits. Tyr.
Being in cold country, some sort of footing is needed to keep the steps from heaving relative to the adjacent structure.
You really don't need to go down 6 feet, though, since the ground will never freeze that deep close to a structure. Three feet is probably sufficient, if you can tolerate a little "wobble" between structures.