Replies

1. 
   vheying | Jan 01, 2003 06:35pm | #1

   You might find the thread on tapcon interesting.

2. 
   Frankie | Jan 01, 2003 06:56pm | #2

   Speed depends on your skill and if you want to have a particular wall depth dimension. Having stated that, here's two ways:

   1. Frame a 2x3 wall on the floor and tip it into place. Once in place you can shoot a couple of nails into the sole plate/ concrete floor and into some cutoffs to join the wall to the wood framing and even the framing above. Pretty fast and easy. As long as your framing is plumb, you should have a flat plane to attach the GWB to. You will also have room for some insulation and electrical boxes.

   2. Use 1by or 2x3's, on the flat, each directly nailed to the wall if space is an issue. You may have to shim at certain spots to maintain a tight connection and flat wall plane. A sole and top plate are not required for this installation. Be sure to glue (PL Premium) AND nail.

   Happy New Year!

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 01, 2003 07:22pm | #3

   >> ... shoot a couple of nails into the sole plate / concrete floor ...

   Are you talking about shooting with a pneumatic nailer here? Will a framing nailer penetrate concrete reliably? I was thinking more along the lines of powder actuated nails.

1. 
   Frankie | Jan 01, 2003 08:25pm | #4

   "I was thinking more along the lines of powder actuated nails."

   So was I.

   This goes for nailing to the concrete wall too. Wood to wood; pneumatic nailer. Wood to concrete or steel; powder actuated nailer.

1. 
   Piffin | Jan 02, 2003 04:23am | #5

   PA nails + PL Premium glue = good.

   Excellence is its own reward!

   "The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.

   The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."

   --Marcus Aurelius

2. 
   locallabor | Jan 02, 2003 07:48am | #6

   what size PA nails and isnt ther some special driver for those?whats the PL stand for in regards to the adhesive? how diificult is it to remove the PA nails in case the fur strip needs realignment? anything special when going aroud windows other than trim nailers?

1. 
   Frankie | Jan 02, 2003 11:38am | #10

   PL is the brand name. There is PL 200, PL400, PL Premium, etc.

   Tha PA nail needs to penetrate the concrete wall by 1 1/2 - 2".

   You can remove the nails but this will also loosen other nails in the same strip of wood. Take care to install them right the first time around. If you are installing the furring on the flat, you have plenty of room for error in terms of plumb.

2. 
   locallabor | Jan 05, 2003 12:55am | #11

   you mentioned nailing into cutoofs to attach to the wood framing but the wall is concrete floor to cieling. would i just PA nail the sole and nail through the top into the floor joists? and how whould the dry wall beinstalled on the cielilng ,directly to the floor joists or is ther additional framing/furring needed on the ceiling

1. 
   CAGIV | Jan 05, 2003 01:29am | #12

   Drywall could be attached to the ceiling joist, but you would have to build soffits around anything that hangs down from the joist, wires, plumbing, and HVAC, Blocking would need to be added where the wall runs perpendicular to the joist so there was something for the drywall to be attached too.

2. 
   Frankie | Jan 05, 2003 06:30pm | #13

   The blocking/ cutoffs are for where the wall runs parrallel to the joists. Chances are in this case, the top plate would not hit a joist. Therefore the wall needs to be attched somehow else. Ergo, cutoffs and powder actuated nails and PL Premium. The blocking is glued and nailed to the wall and the framing is nailed to that. You still should use powder actuated nails to attach the sole plate to the concrete floor.

   I prefer not to attach the GWB directly to the joists - unless a) ceiling height is at a premium, b) you don't have wires or piping installed under the joists, and c) you have wood I-joists. When you have 2x joists they are usually not all at the same level and so as to not show ceiling undulations we install 1x3 furring, perpedicular to the joist and attach the GWB to that. Stretching a couple of lengths of jet-line (kinda looks like dentel floss) from corner to opposite corner will establish a plane.

   Hope this helps.

1. 
   locallabor | Jan 06, 2003 05:56am | #14

   thank you for all the info its a great help. have any info about adding a partition wall one will go under a steel I-beam held up by steel posts. im wondering how to inclose the last steel post and attaching to the I-beam above. the other have tons of pipes/conduit above(belowthe floor joists)and the last one has the same problem w/ the pipes above but will be mostly for doors to an alcove

3. 
   AaronRosenthal | Jan 02, 2003 09:05am | #7

   I did my basement couple of years ago, just because it was so cold. I learned!

   Existing poured concrete ½ way up, sole plate then frame construction to the 6½' level (it was a coal cellar in '31).

   FIRST: In this area, and an older house, make sure it's tied to the concrete - if not, the it's hammer drill and lag bolts. Where you don't have earthquakes, you have tornados.

   SECOND: 6mil poly vapour barrier stapled to the sole plate, down the wall and on to the floor;

   THIRD: Treated 2x sole plate on the floor with powder nailing to keep it in line. Caulk the plate/plastic seam;

   FOURTH: 2x studs of your choice to make the inside wall;

   FIFTH: Insulate. If you live in cold country, use the appropriate width stud;

   SIXTH:Pull the loose poly so it meets the top plate of the framing, creating a continuous vapour barrier and staple, tape.

   I obviously don't need to tell you to account for outlet, telephone, HVAC etc before you zip up the plastic.

   Hope it helps.

   At my age, my fingers & knees arrive at work an hour after I do.

   Aaron the Handyman
   Vancouver, Canada

1. 
   locallabor | Jan 02, 2003 09:26am | #8

   thannks for the reply. but i lost you in some spots, are you saying that your basement was concrete wall only half way up then regular framing the other half? make sure whats tied to the concrete?btw how can you lag into concrete are thes self tapping concrete lags, i always thought threaded rod+epoxy for bolting to concrete. anyway you go on to say stapeling vb to the sole then down the wall +to the floor, isnt the sole at the bottom of the wall/on the floor did you mean top plate? what are the apropraite size (and/or brand if it matters) PA nails to use

1. 
   AaronRosenthal | Jan 02, 2003 10:52am | #9

   I see why you could be confused.

   In this area they often built basements with a pour for the floor and the concrete walls, which came up about 3-5 feet. On that concrete wall base, they then put the wood sole plate and the 2x framing. My house was built in '31and they did not bolt the house to the concrete then.

   NOW, they pour footings and insert "j" bolts or whatever, then fasten the house to the footing and then pour the floor.

   I used 6" lag bolts with anchors to drill through the wood sill plate and into the footing, inserted the anchor and tied the house down to the concrete. Retrofit.

   I don't know how your house is built, or if you have a below grade wall to insulate. In MY house, since I have a below grade basement area, I had to create an envelope. This may not be your case, and it also depends on the waterproofing @ ground contact and your construction.

   It was my experience over many basements that a proper u-shaped vapour barrier with the insulation bats enclosed, worked well. If your wall is wood straight down, insulate and vapour barrier. If you have concrete or block, use the envelope system.

   I used the recommended powder nails - 3" I think I remember.

   If I've forgotten anything the rest of the "guys" will remind me!At my age, my fingers & knees arrive at work an hour after I do.

   Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada

4. 
   MikeK | Jan 06, 2003 09:39am | #15

   Have you thought about going with steel framing.  It seems to be popular for basement finishing in my part of the country. You simply installed the bottom rail, install the top rail, and then the verical joist fit inside the rails.  I think you can get away without fastening it to the foundation wall.

1. 
   locallabor | Jan 07, 2003 05:43am | #16

   i thought about it but i had wasnt sure if you can nail base/case into it w/a nail gun

1. 
   Frankie | Jan 07, 2003 06:13am | #17

   If you go w/metal studs screw a 2x in the stud for any trim nailing

1. 
   locallabor | Jan 14, 2003 09:34am | #18

   any one have any experiance w/ hitachi pnuematic concrete nailer NC65AC? btw will a normal stack compressor provide ebough air and are nails easy to come by? it seems like it would be faster than PA nailer.