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Blue,
I’m may switch to GCing homes in the future…and you’ve been good enough to share much of your world with us here, so…How about the rest of the details..
What makes a good GC in your eyes..
What does the $5.75 to frame a home include and exclude?
What are your typical extra fees beyond 5.75 that you have mentioned…
And any other notables that we have overlooked in the past.
Other tradesmen, and GC’s with knowledge of successful systems of work, please feel free to jump in and expect an invitation to the
b Fall Slap & Beer Fest.
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For 5.75, I'll stand up all the wood. Interior trim is not wood in MY World! That's sissy stuff!
Calm down boys, I'm jiving you!
We don't have to tar paper the roof, but all the exposd wood under a brick veneer is papered. We set all the exterior millwork. We set the steel.
IN this sub, the door companies typically install the three exterior swinging doors, if we get the rough right. Most of the time we do.
I hit the GC for "features", especially elevation items that take a little more time. Bays are one item that require a large amount of time per square foot. It's only 8 sq ft, but would you build it for 50$?
Good gcs are concerned with the subs profit margins. They don't want them driving better cars t han them, but they do need decent wheels too.
A good Gc will be flexible, organized, and will have laborers to do the laborer work. I once lost couple of carpenters when I obliged a GC's request to pick up the scrap lumber next door (we don't usually do that). They were insulted, and that was the last straw with them, for me. I was not the best employer back then.
A good gc recognizes that we are all in the same boat, earning a buck on the erection of a house. We are in it as a team, and fighting like hell to capture a part of the market. If we can put out a reasonably good house, at areasonably competitive price, we will all share in the bounty.
You will probably make a good gc. Especially if you don't make the framers block for curtains!
Blue
*Jack a good general can be defined as one who with understanding to the bottom line knows that good subs are sometimes hard to come by and will ensure that they make money on his sites so that they will be there when he needs them.With regards to the profitability of being a GC, you must balance this with the risk factor.The GC is in the direct line of fire when things don't go as planned. The grass in not as green as it looks when your looking over the fence.In ICI construction, a GC works on an average markup of 3.75%, the subs work on an average of 10% markup.We are blessed to work in the greatest trade in the world. We leave behind a legacy of beautiful homes. We translate pieces of paper into solid 3 dimentional products. Without us, architects and engineers would still be looking at pieces of paper.Oh, by the way, I've seen more subs driving expensive cars than I've seen GC's.
*Thanks blue,So on a 1 1/2 story chalet, 1000 ft down, 500 up, 28x35 with 12/12 pitch, huge window wall with three sliders...What else do you need to know to price it?J
*Gabe,Thanks for the post....In my NY neck of the woods GC's are doing much better than 4% unless of course you are figuring strictly accounting style company profit....Then maybe negative...It depends on their spending and work habits....I think the market here will allow close to 25% of purchase price to go toward the GC and the rest to subs and materials and the lot.I'll let you know in a year.J
*Blocking is the way to the future. Walk towards the light Blue, just keep walking towards the bright white light.
*Sorry about ignoring this question, I forgot to add this topic to my "read new messages folder".A 1 1/2 story chalet would probably fall into the standard pricing range. Sometimes they have difficult features that migh need addressing. Are there full length exposed beams? Wierd ceiling angles? Detailed exterior trim? Detailed porches?The huge window wall is usually part of the program. It would take me a day or so to frame it down, and stand it up complete.The 500 feet upstairs is what I call the money maker. You get paid for the footage, but it doesn't have cornice work, or a roof. This bonus makes up for some of the harded aspects of this type of house.My price? To a builder that will be building this model again: $8635. To a oneshot builder: +10%, maybe more. To a homeowner/gc'er: $13,500 and I probably wouldn't accept the contract, unless I felt very sure that things would be organized properlyBlue.
*Blue,you're worth your weight in beer, slaps, coffee, whatever your pleasure...Maybe an ultralight flight before the drinking!!Very helpful numbers...As I have no experience with a framing sub, your info was exactly what I was looking for to get a jump on experience...Thanks Boogerin to boogerin brethrin,One-Eyed-Jack . )
*You'll do fine, good luck.YOu'll probably make enough to sposer the slugfest, oops I mean the slapfest.The advantage I see about GCing, is that you can runs multiple jobs, whereas most small sub-contractors can run only one, or two.The markups are different, but a gc can make smaller markups on many more projects.Blue
*Blue,The biggest reasons for switching for me is to firmly pass the financial responsibility of hitting the numbers on to those that are doing the work...I will still aid in scheduling and organising the site and will try bring more of a business level of responsibility and accoutability into play...For my clients I think I can shorten the time to build more than anything.J
*Jack, Subs that can get along, and thoughtful schedualing for the work they have to do. Everybody needs enough time to get their jobs done right(unless one were working behind Blue, then the vacuum created by his speedy efficiency would just suck every one else along ahead of time), but when things do get congested, it sure helps the job quality if there's no fussin' and fumin'.Framers here get between 6.50 and 8.50 sq' for framing, boxing and siding. That includes setting exterior doors, but just barely.I'd bet you will do just fine. Just leave enough in the budget for your barbie-doll trim carpenters. BB
*Thanks Buck...One Eye
*Jack,A good GC is one who helps his subs make money, what I mean by this is strong communication and reliability. If you tell your subs the materials will be there on Tuesday then stand on your head if you have to to get it there for Tuesday. If for example you tell a sub the foundation will be ready on a certain day then let him know ASAP if it won't. Don't let him show up to find an open hole with no concrete in it. My most basic rule of thumb is to treat my subs they way I expect to be treated. Most of the GC's in my area operate on a 20 to 40% profit margin. Some of my Subs do own Caddies and Explorers but so do the GC's. Best of luck in your new endeavor.KMH
*Thanks Ken,The best article I have ever read on this said exactly the same thing as you just did and I plan to make it very very integral a part of my GCing.Any other needed suggestions, please post away...Jack
*Good advice Ken. That very thing happenedto me last year, for a new builder. I had agreed to frame one at 7 per foot, and the day before it was supposed to go, i drove through and found the basment still unbackfilled. I called off the crew, and waited till the next morning to see if I was ever going to get a call. I didn't, until 2pm. I called back and told the office to find another rougher, and I have never lookedback! If they can't respect me, and my time frames, screw em!Blue