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generator?

toddinmaine | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on February 18, 2006 03:48am

I’ll keep this one brief…..  what do I need to know about generators? I’m here in Maine, sitting in the dark, 70 mph gusts knocked our power out close to 4 hours ago…. my sons in his crib, and my wife and 3 daughters are crashed on the couch and floor… its quite the site to be had…. I am so damned blessed….. I’m hoping the laptop battery will last awhile longer….. the idea of having a generator obviously passed thru my mind….and I would like some advice on what size I should be looking at, would basically like to keep the furnace running,and the food in the fridge from rotting and a nightlight for the scaredy kats…. my wife that is….LOL  so, any help would be great…. and I gotta say, I’ve learned more in the past few days from reading obsessively on this forum than any time in recent memory….. so, THANK ALL OF YOU FOR THE DEPTH OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND WILLINGNESS TO SHARE WITH SOME THAT CONSIDER THEMSELVES WANNABES, PROBABLY TRUTHFULLY JUST HACKS….either way, its very much appreciated…..

sorry for not keeping it brief…. arg… long winded again….gotta work on that…..

 

 

 


Edited 2/17/2006 7:54 pm ET by toddinmaine

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  1. User avater
    BossHog | Feb 18, 2006 03:55am | #1

    I don't know your situation, so I only have one thought.

    If you would hapen to own a tractor, a PTO powered generator can be a good thing.

    It's one less engine to worry about keeping running...

    When I'm feeling down, I like to whistle. It makes the neighbor's dog run to the end of his chain and gag himself.
    1. toddinmaine | Feb 18, 2006 04:42am | #6

      don't have a tractor, but whats a PTO powered generator?????.... by the way, craftsman lawn tractor doesn't count right???

      1. DanH | Feb 18, 2006 04:58am | #7

        Actually, some lawn tractors can take a generator, though if you buy the special-made one it's probably more expensive than a separate generator.Oil furnace takes more power to run than gas, but not that much more.Like I said, if you want to plug into the house it runs into quite a bit more money -- probably $2K minimum, and easily $10K if you don't watch it. Bigger generator and you have to spring for a big-arse transfer switch. (Yeah, it can be done with a suicide cord, but if someone has to ask then they aren't enough aware of the dangers to make that safe.)

        If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

        happy?

      2. User avater
        BossHog | Feb 18, 2006 06:02am | #9

        A PTO powered generator is run off the PTO of a tractor. Great if you have a tractor, worthless if you don't.

        The advantages are that you can buy a bigger generator for the same money, since you don't need to buy an engine. And like I said earlier, that's one less engine to keep running.

        Craftsman mowers are TOYS, not tractors. (-:

        Here's an example of a couple of PTO powered generators:

        View Image
        What do you call a woman walking across the street?
        I don't know, but what the hell is she doing out of the kitchen?

  2. MikeSmith | Feb 18, 2006 04:01am | #2

    generators are so cheap now..

    you can get a 5 kw... 7 kw  with wheels at HD for about $800

    or you can have a big propane one installed with auto switch over... and spend $5000

    for as often as it happens, consider the cheap solution.. and get a  GFI octopus to plug your essentials in

    then you don't have to worry about it when the grid power comes back unexpectedley

     

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
  3. DanH | Feb 18, 2006 04:03am | #3

    Size (kilowatts)?
    120V or 240V?
    Fuel (gas/diesel/natural gas/propane)?
    Manual/auto start?
    Permanently mounted or portable?
    Typical run time -- hours/days/weeks?
    Your competence to operate/maintain?
    Cost constraints?

    Size is really an issue of how much you'll want to plug in. Probably the bare minimum would be around 2KW, and 5KW would be sufficient in almost all cases, IF YOU ONLY PLAN TO RUN "CRITICAL" LOADS.

    Note that the stuff you want to run on the generator must be able to be disconnected from house power and connected to the generator, either with a plug, or with a transfer switch.

    If you intend to power the whole house so that the lights can work, etc, then you need a significantly larger unit.

    If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

    happy?

  4. thetigger | Feb 18, 2006 04:06am | #4

    Unfortunately, I feel like an expert on this one. Living in Pensacola, I've been a generator owner for years. They have carried me thru Frederick, Erin, Opal, Ivan, Dennis, and the corner of Katrina.
    For about $500-600 you can get a 4000 watt gasoline generator from Coleman or other simular co's. They are about 3' by 4' by 4' and MUST
    be run outside the house becuase they give off exhaust like a car.
    They will run your refrig, several lights, the TV, ceiling fans and you can use a microwave. HOWEVER, there is no way they would run a electric furnace. If you just need ignition for gas or oil plus a fan, OK; otherwise, no way.
    Our trouble with this in NW FLA is that a 5 gallon gas tank will last only about 10-12 hours. Then you have to go buy gasoline, but you can't because all the gas stations are unable to pump gas becuase there is no power. Such fun.
    If you opt for a bigger gasoline gen that will power an electric furnace or large space heaters this will use a lot more gas so it will become an important consideration for you.
    Some of the more expensive new houses are having gas (not gasoline) generators installed, but now you're talking an upfromt price of $10K and up plus a gas line.
    In short my advice is - get a 4000-5000 watt gasoline generator. Make sure you have several 5 gal cans in reserve during storm season and put all the family in bed with one electric blanket and lots of quilts. Put the coffee pot and microwave beside the bed and wait it out.
    Hope this helps.

    Rusti

    1. toddinmaine | Feb 18, 2006 04:38am | #5

      man lost of questions.... I love it.... alright didn't realize I had so many choices, guess I was just thinking of a gas unit to be left outside the walkout basement.... which by the way there is a plug... like a dryer plug...220 is it???  even have the plug to go into it....now that runs back to the panel to a double block of 50 A circuits.... now does that back feed from the generator to fire up the panel, perse???? 

      don't care if it has auto start.... I start the new snowblower manual way even though I could auto start.....

      portable would be nice.... maybe I'll use it elsewhere out in the yard..... or plug some tools into it for the fun of it..... could have used it when I was 150 feet away finishing my fence..... cords I had didn't reach.... damn cordless sucked....

      hopefully run time would be hours... but as the ice storm of 98 showed us, it could be days up to a week....

      competence to maintain, not an issue.... I'm no mr. goodwrench, but I get by....

      cost constraints... is basically what I can convince my wife to spend on "what we need"....   just under $1000 actually.... which I think is possible....I'd rather by my kids some more crap they don't need or play with.....

      my critical, and hers and theirs are different... so middle to high rated would be best...

      I do like the idea of plugging it in to the house.... I wouldn't have to run cords down the hall into the basement.... little kids walking and others almost crawling.... and its there to be utilized.... might as well....

      rusti  asked about the furnace.... its oil... just need to keep the pilot light going right??   my wife is cold, STILL no power... and she's b**chin'....

      I don't care if I need to buy more gas cans... it will feel like buying a tool.... :-D

      by the way, I feel for you in FL, my mother in law is there year round... calls daily, its like she's here...lol...  so when she lives with a hurricane, so do we... I couldnt' do it... I'll stick with a noreaster.... good luck though.... hate to see people put out like by weather... its sad....

      so, given all of that... whats my best route????  I will be changing the screen name from toddinmaine to "the winded one" SOON.... damn I'm sorry....

       

       

       

       

      1. FrankDuVal | Feb 18, 2006 05:39am | #8

        Todd:If you have a deep well submirsable pump of 3/4 or 1 HP then you will need 6 kw generator if you want to run other things (refrigerator, furnace, etc) while the pump is running. I tried running a Generac 5 kw unit with a well pump and voltage was very low. Other neighbors also bought them at the big warehouse stores and had the same problems. They worked fine until the pump comes on, then the voltage drops. My 6 kw Kawasaki doesn't flinch with the well pump, furnace, refrigerator, freezer, coffee maker...Do not just plug a generator into a dryer outlet to backfeed the house panel. Discussion on this subject can be found in a search. Square D and others make accesories to allow the breaker panel to serve as a transfer switch so you will not backfeed the power company. Research accessories for your brand of panel. You may also install a transfer switch style sub panel (again Square D makes these, maybe 6 pole spaces) to feed a few circuits to be generator powered.Backfeeding the power company can result in: electricuting power company linemen, damaging your generator trying to supply power to the grid, damaging your generator when power company restores power.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

      2. brownbagg | Feb 18, 2006 06:25am | #10

        I do like the idea of plugging it in to the house....They was a big post about this here, about a month ago.Hey anybody seen 4lorn lately. 2+3=7

        1. User avater
          maddog3 | Feb 18, 2006 06:42am | #11

          and here it is.........
          http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?msg=69806.1
          _________________________________________________I just saw a post from 4Lorn a couple days ago....about fluoride in the water.......

          Edited 2/17/2006 10:45 pm by maddog3

      3. ThumbWhacker | Feb 18, 2006 07:15am | #12

        Here's some stuff I grabbed from Consumer Reports, just came out this month. I also posted a screen capture of the test results. Hope that helps.
        -----------------Models judged very good in our power-delivery tests came closest to meeting their wattage claims and maintained the voltage needed to keep devices from overheating. But those judged fair provided far less than promised and could damage motorized appliances as well as computers and other sensitive electronics.There’s more to generators than wattage, however. Models that scored highest tended to have the most conveniences, as shown by the Features columns and their higher ease-of-use scores. The small Honda and Yamaha were especially quiet and competent. Their inverter technology also made them much more competent than similarly sized models, though much more expensive.The Ratings rank generators by overall performance. See Wattage needs to choose the right size generator for your needs. Then check our Quick Picks, below, which focus on value and more specialized requirements.
        QUICK PICKSBest for most emergency needs; both of these top performers are CR Best Buys:6 Generac $650 (5,500 watts)9 Troy-Bilt $650 (5,550 watts)
        Both offer long run time per tank and lots of features at a reasonable price.For extended outages or added comfort:7 North Star $2,000 (6,600 watts)12 Briggs & Stratton $1,900 (10,000 watts)
        The North Star can run on other fuels, easing storage needs. The Briggs & Stratton offers the most wattage by far.If low noise outweighs high wattage:1 Honda $1,800 (2,800 watts)2 Yamaha $1,900 (2,800 watts)
        Both are quiet and far more competent than similarly sized models. But their high-tech inverter design isn’t cheap.

        1. raggamuffin | Feb 18, 2006 06:16pm | #13

          As an alternative, check out this option: http://www.mrelectricity.com.

          I just installed one of these systems and it works great. 

           

           

          1. DanH | Feb 18, 2006 10:16pm | #14

            I'm going to hold out for a Mr. Fusion.
            If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

            happy?

  5. RobWes | Feb 18, 2006 11:24pm | #15

    I'm coming up to the finish line on my house up at Moosehead Lake. I installed a 12KW Kohler with an auto transfer switch so that I don't need to be there to start a manual unit. Your vacuum cleaner is louder than this unit. Retail your looking at about 6500 installed is my guess. There are local reps as well

    1. TomB | Feb 19, 2006 04:55am | #16

      Something no one has said anything about is electric start. Think the worst possable weather and day, and you with a sprained shoulder or worse, a broken bone. Will you or your wife be able to start a pull type one. for the money, get an electric start and keep a small cheep battery charger on the battery so that it is ready for you. I am 53 years old and moving out to the country in a few months. I tried a pull start and it went ok on a nice day. May not be able to do it when I and the wife get a fw years older. You may have this generator for a few years before you need it. You should also think of gas stablizer for that fuel in the tank.

      Tom b

      1. DanH | Feb 19, 2006 05:02am | #17

        If you have a portable unit that's rarely used, it's probably best to keep the gas tank empty, and only fill it when needed. Of course, keep some gas in cans that you regularly refresh, cycling the old stuff through your cars.A fixed unit should generally be run regularly (every 2-4 weeks, probably) to keep the battery charged and the oil circulating. Many will do this themselves, automatically. This will help to keep the gas fresh (should still use stabilizer), but for these it's better to use natural gas or propane, vs having gas sit in the tank like that.
        If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

        happy?

        1. brownbagg | Feb 19, 2006 05:38am | #18

          I have seen alot of people getting the big whole house units with automatic start, running off propane or natural gas.. 2+3=7

          1. toddinmaine | Feb 19, 2006 06:17am | #19

            well I know we're getting the generator now, yesterday with the power out from maybe 4pm to almost 1 am.... it was damn cold out... 70 mph winds... it was 52 degrees when the power came on....  that wasn't good.... went back to bed to wake up and find out our well pump wasn't sucking water.... just would run, not draw any water from the well.... great luck huh.... so, had to get the well guy up here, just to prime the stupid thing... but, one good thing, he didn't charge us... keeping a customer...  & I learned how to do it for next time.... well probably.... but, need to get a check valve in the well itself... and he's probably hoping we'll send the business his way, which we will of course.... a free saturday service call, that surprised me.... but, with 0-10 below tonight.... we'll be going to a hotel if we lose power tonight....

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