Was at a client’s home (McMansion) the other day replacing a door – this lady always has “while you are here” jobs. She is a good steady customer, and I work T&M only for her – so I always have a look at these additional jobs.
She has an end panel next to her (SubZero) refrigerator. A large chip about 1-1/2″ wide x 2″ long x ~1/2″ thick at its thickest point had been knocked out of the end panel – on the face of the end panel next to the fridge. Face next to fridge – not the exposed face – extends about 3/8″ or so into the exposed edge of the panel.
I have no idea how this happened, but of course I don’t know how the door I was replacing got a hole in it either – don’t ask, don’t tell. I suspect both have something to do with her grandson (19 YO) and his friends.
She decided the way to repair this chip was to glue it back in place with Gorilla Glue – probably an OK plan, my choice would have been yellow glue.
Except she used w-aaaaaaaaay too much glue, and did not clamp the chip in place.
The chip fell out and the glue on it hardened, and the glue on the end panel dripped / ran / foamed its way down the end panel for a foot or so and then it hardened also. BTW, Gorilla Glue does not seem to stick very well to the glazed face of floor tile.
Any bright ideas on how to remove the hardened Gorilla Glue from the end panel and chip? It is up to 1/8″ thick on both, and yes that stuff gets really hard!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Replies
> Any bright ideas on how to remove the hardened Gorilla Glue from the end panel and chip?
Nope.
I was afraid of that!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
What is the finish on the panel? I don't think you'll find anything that removes cured gorilla glue, other than carefully scraping and/or light sanding. For the finish sanding, the colored scrub pads, usually green or a color like that will be fairly gentle. Gorilla glue is strong when it is clamped, when its not clamped, it usually just drys hard but it doesn't bond to the material. Depending on the finish, a new disposable razor blade should be able to pull up the glue. It just going to be slow.
Cabinets / end panel is cherry, lightish reddish stain, poly (I think), might be a lacquer.
Sounds like I may be scraping on the runs only, then adding a small cherry dutchman, stain to match and finish top coat.
There is no way I could possibly scrape the hardened glue off of the chip and glue it back in place (like I could have easily before the HO tried her "fix").
The most visible is the edge alongside of the fridge - may add dutchman to fill the hole, then go with a continuous strip of cherry veneer along the entire edge.
Could cut a mortise / relief to accept the dutchman fairly easily with a router if I pulled the fridge out of its hole.
The nice thing about T&M is -- doesn't matter how long it takes, just so it looks good!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Chems won't work, only abrasives.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
NOT what I needed to hear!
Thanks anyway, all of you guys are just confirming my fears -- the ones that instantly popped into my head the second she showed me the chip with the foamy hard glue all over it.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Bondo with red hardner ( not blue) and Red Mahogany stain over it, then a fake graining with a fingernail polish brush and dark walnut, has saved my bacon and cherry repair more than once.
Wipe shellac barrier coats between steps and final wax in to finish it off. Black shoe polish (kiwi) or Cordovan works wonders.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I printed that post - hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Had not considered filling a hole that large - time for a little testing - have most of the stuff you mentioned.
Thanks.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You can even add minwax stain ( in small amounts, and use the goop from the bottom of the unstirred can) to the bondo..easy tho' it can affectthe final set up hardness and time.
Add it after the bondo is well mixed, like a marbleized cake batter.
Then clamp a block o wood over the biggest face of the void, with waxed paper as a release, stuff the bondo in the open end of the void, makes for a clean flat surface on the biggest face, less leveling or sanding and NO sags.
Get it smooth, wipe on some color, let it dry a bit, wipe on some shellac, let dry, more color if needed, more shellac, then wiggle some fake grain in a darker color, more shellac, then wax.
Spray shellac in a can is handy, make a mask outta whatever ya can find in the kitchen ( cereal box card board is perfect) to keep overspray off the good areas.
I've NEVER done anything like this, nope, never..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
>>I've NEVER done anything like this, nope, never..LOL<<
I printed that post too.
>>...well mixed, like a marbleized cake batter.<<
You realize of course, that someone who had never mixed bondo, would have no idea what you are talking about here.
Although for someone who has never done it, ya' seem mighty familiar with the techniques needed.
Must have been a l-o-n-g conversation with someone who had done it. ;-) nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more!
Thanks for the second hand info!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Edited 10/6/2007 4:25 pm ET by JTC1
Yeah, with cherry, in a reasonably inconspicuous spot, it should be possible to do a faux finish that matches pretty well, using gel stains.Another thing that occurs to me is you could attach the chip to a piece of plywood face down with double-backed tape, then carefully sand with a power sander, to get it down to an acceptable thickness. Then using a detail sander on the body you might be able to get the two to approximately match.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
You can try LIFTOFF Silicone, Latex, Caulk, & Foam Sealant Remover.
Lowes has it in the paint department by the thinners and paint removers. Not in the caulk section which has other caulk removers.
It specifically list polyurathane adhesives.
I had a one report from someone that used it to get Gorrilla foam off a finished table.
But no guarnatee of how well any finish will handle it.
I have used it on silicone caulk and really like it. But not tried it on polyurathane.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
>>
You can try LIFTOFF Silicone, Latex, Caulk, & Foam Sealant Remover.<<
Yes! This is the kind I info I hoped to hear.
Thanks - will be at Lowes tomorrow.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Tell me more.DGF bought a used 12x24 greenhouse that had all the panels siliconed in. Backwards. I've got to clean a few hundred linear feet of silicone off before I put the panels back in. With Lexel.Some of it never got smashed, so it peels of easy. Some got smashed to a fair thee well and will never peel off. The frame is anodized aluminum and scraping will scratch it.SamT
There are several silicone caulk removers that work halfway well on bathtub caulk. 3M makes one that I've used. They don't dissolve the caulk, but seem to loosen the bond between caulk and the surface, so that the caulk can be more easily scraped off, often with a "Brassie" or windshield scraper instead of a razor blade.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
But then I'm thinking Lexel isn't really silicone.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I'm going to test the Lexel on the polycarbonate panels and if it sticks to them like it does to everything else, I will use it.The original owner used silicone, that's what I have to clean off.SamT
Well, make sure you got them in right.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Sam,My understanding is that polycarbonate (pc for short) is damaged by the petro solvents in Lexel. Doesn't Lexel have toluene as one of the solvents? I have not used Lexel in years, but it was some vile smelling stuff before it dried.Anyhow, the Lexel will attack the pc. A phone call to one of the companies that make pc is in order. Why not use silicone? It is compatible with polycarbonate.Bill
I didn't know that. Thanks. I have seen the instructions, and they use silicone. I really like Lexel over silicone for this situation, but I have very little experience with PC.Have you any recommendations about which silicone to use on PC? This application needs some adhesiveness, but is mostly a sealant.SamT
Sam,For silicone that is bonding plastic, glass, or coated metals I prefer the acetic cure silicones that smell like vinegar when they cure. They seal and stick well, don't creep, and are cheaper than the oxime cure silicones like "silicone 2." They also have a longer shelf life.The oxime silicones are only better if you need to bond wood, concrete, stone, or other porous stuff. I don't know why they work better at this, but they do. They are also less corrosive on reactive metals.If a tube is older or out of date, or has been open awhile, run a test patch. Oxime cure silicones go bad rapidly and become slime that never dries.Bill
Anuther place I'd use Geocel 2300 in lieu of Lexel. Tri-polymer, stays more flexible, and is generally, mo betta for that.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
When I replaced the rear winfows in a wrecked Jimmy, I used polycarb. (Lexan.)And I used Lexel to seal/glue it in with.It didn't bother the poly at all. But it sealed really well. Stayed flexible. And stayed sealed. Even with all the rough treatment it got both from the long road to my house, and by me as well.
Yeh... That'll work.
I've used it on "visqueen" and Jeep plastic fuel tanks. Maybe I'll put a dab in a corner and see what happens.SamT
I have not used any of the other specified caulk removers.But I have used Goof Off in the past.The reason that I tried that was I remembered that when sillycon first came out people would use it on carbs and other gas fittings and it would puff up and disintegrate.And that is about what the Goof Off did. But to be practical you needed to scrap off about 90% and then wet it with the goof off and then rub off the puff up and make several passes doing that.The Liftoff works somewhat the same, but more affective.I suspect that if you could dam it up and let flood the area with it that you could wait maybe 1/2 hour and then just wipe out the mess.In a show it is not that easy.So I use a utility knife and plastic scraper to peel off maybe 75%.Then wet it and run the plastic scraper again. Then wet again and use a wipe soak in the stuff and wipe a couple of times.For difficult places I also have a fiberglass brush. Don't know where I got it, but I think that it might have been for cleaning PC boards before soldering.The MSDS show that it has acitone in it.But the label say biodegraable water based.And it does not have a strong smell not is as volatile..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks.SamT
I am now in possession of a can of Liftoff silicone Latex......Remover.
It was in the local Lowes, removed from the caulks........ are you hanging out in Wilmington?
Have several broken wood samples with cured poly finish buried in Gorilla Glue which is madly foaming all over a wax paper base on the kitchen counter. DW loves this type of project!
Will have to wait for the glue to cure before progressing to testing the Liftoff.
Thanks again for the lead - will keep you all posted as to success / failure / finish damage / etc.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Don't forget to give us an update if the liftoff works,
And add to the "Stupid things I did today" thread if it doesn't.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Have test Gorilla Glue patches curing now - were on the kitchen counter for a while but DW kept giving me the "evil eye".
Figure I should let the glue cure a couple of days before trying the Liftoff.
Have two on pieces of poly finished trim - which I snapped to give a broken face which is unfinished.
One on a scrap of raw birch plywood - cut face, so I guess the glue is actually on poplar.
I won't forget!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
The great Gorilla Glue removal experiment with Lift-Off Silicone........Remover as suggested by BillHartmann is a success - or at least promising enough to attempt at the client's home.
My test glue patches on broken, poly coated trim have yielded a relatively clean raw wood surface with no damage to the poly coating - after applying the Lift Off repeatedly to the poly finish one cannot tell what finish has been exposed to the Lift Off and which has not - surface gloss is unchanged.
The Lift Off does not seem to dissolve the hardened glue. Instead it seems to penetrate and disrupt the wood/glue bond which facilitates "picking" the hardened glue off of the wood surface.
Thanks to all!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Glad to hear there is something that will help you. I never thought anything other than harsh chemical would work. I hope I never need to clean any up though. I tend to use is very little because I don't want to make the fixes if I screw up.
Well, it's not a done deal yet - but the test does look promising.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Where did you purchase this product and is it called "lift off"?
It is Lift OFF Silcon Caulk and Foam Remover. There are other Lift OFf products.http://www.liftoffinc.com/The website says that Lowes, HD and ACE has it.Lowes has it by the paint solvents and paint removers. They have some different type of caulk remover by the caulks..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"Motsenbocker's Lift Off Silicone Latex Caulk and Foam Sealant Remover" as recommended to me by Bill Hartmann in a previous post.
Smallish, 4.5 oz squeeze bottle. There were 6 or 8 Lift Off products for various purposes in the local Lowes.
Reminder: I was only removing Gorilla Glue which had foamed and run in an "open" situation - not a clamped joint.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Remove as much as you can without damaging the surface, then set up a sun lamp. The UV light will degrade the glue and it will powderize.
>>sun lamp....UV light will degrade the glue and it will powderize.<<
It will? How long? Couple hours or months?
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You got a C14 clock?
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I had one, but someone borrowed it a l-o-n-g time ago, never brought it back.
I get the idea.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Polyurethane insulation (actually polyisocyanurate) does it in a week. I don't know how long glue will take.
If i was me I would probably just keep it simple;
sand the foamed glue with 80 grit on a block of wood, bondo to fill voids, sand flat and apply a strip of cherry veneer. Seal/stain to match.
Incidentally, a great way to apply veneer is with Titebond II. Roll it on to both surfaces and let it dry completely, then use a clothes iron to press it on.
>> a great way to apply veneer is with Titebond II. Roll it on to both surfaces and let it dry completely, then use a clothes iron to press it on. <<
No kidding? DIY hot melt adhesive?
Now I have got to set another test patch - DW will be fuming soon - so much for getting away with just the evil eye.
Thanks.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
"DW will be fuming soon "tO BAD this isn't white oak..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
>"DIY hot melt adhesive?"Oh yes. I don't know if it works with any other Titebond, but Titebond II works well. The best thing about this method is that the adhesive is dry so you can position the veneer without the instant grab effect you get with, say, contact cement - and yet it does stick flat and permanently under a slow pass with an iron. You're obviously putting a lot of effort into research, testing, etc. for this project, but it seems like even in the best case scenario (you are able to remove all the glue), you will just be re glueing a broken chip and the repair will always be visible -especially since it's gotten so much attention. That's why I suggested a different approach.That said, I'm definitely interested in the subject matter and I'm learning a lot from this thread (as I write this, my hands are stained with gorilla glue because I was in a hurry and didn't take precautions). BTW some things I've learned about gorilla glue: gorilla glue stains on skin can be removed by soaking in hot water (a bath is good) and then scrubbing with a pumice stone . The bad news: you have to remove the stained skin itself. Gluing -Vinyl or latex gloves are good for protection, but they usually break so when I'm doing a lot of gluing I like to wear cheap cotton knit gloves over them. The other day I was gluing mitered corners on a scaffold and didn't have gloves, so I sprayed my hands liberally with WD 40 beforehand. It worked pretty well, and even cleaned a drop of GG off my arm when I soaked a rag with it.
Just hang a picture over it .:>)
>>Just hang a picture over it .:>)<<<
Tried that, but it falls off everytime someone opens the refrigerator door.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Sounds to me like you are passing up a perfectly good opportunity to justify buying a Fein MultiMaster...;o)
Yeh... That'll work.
You are probably right!
On a similar topic - anybody ever use the Bosch Finecut saw - sort of a glorified flush cut saw / offset recip saw?
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.