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I’ve done a limited amount of work on Habitat jobs and I agree, if it’s fine homebuilding your after, you’ll be horrified at best. Take any reasonable cross-section of the population who would donate thier time, give them power tools and little or no instruction, and what do you expect? HOWEVER, it seems to be a worthwhile cause, and provides affordable housing to some who may need it. An on site person to run these projects who has an excellent knowledge of the do’s and don’ts of construction as well as the order in which things are done is a must. As a professional I must say you will find it frustrating in many ways but hopefully you will find it equally rewarding in other ways. Good Luck with it! SteveM
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I've done a limited amount of work on Habitat jobs and I agree, if it's fine homebuilding your after, you'll be horrified at best. Take any reasonable cross-section of the population who would donate thier time, give them power tools and little or no instruction, and what do you expect? HOWEVER, it seems to be a worthwhile cause, and provides affordable housing to some who may need it. An on site person to run these projects who has an excellent knowledge of the do's and don'ts of construction as well as the order in which things are done is a must. As a professional I must say you will find it frustrating in many ways but hopefully you will find it equally rewarding in other ways. Good Luck with it! SteveM
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Brian C.,
I dont understand how it is money out of your pocket one way or the other. Please explain.
Thanks.
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I don't agree with your statement of being money out of your pocket becasue you are a contractor. The people buying these houses are buying them solely because they are cheap/affordable. The new houses being built by developers or contractors in my area start at $135,000. I don't think too many Habitat buyers are at this price level.
It seems to me if they are taking money it is away from the slumlords, I mean landlords, or from the people selling the cheapest/lowest/worst used houses in the area. And realtors lose some potential commission.
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Thanks for info so far, I'm sure I can count on more responses.I happen to be an independent contractor,live in rural community(north Iowa),we do not ever intend on blitz building.If we are lucky to build 1 house a year, we will be satisfied.Sorry you feel the way you do Brian C.,but the housing is for low wage earners who do not have access to put money down.If you can sell your houses for $58,000 with no money down,no interest,and 20-25 yr mortgages, then I wish you the best of luck.As I stated, we are in the very early stages of forming the affiliation,I'm more concerned about tips on organizing at this stage then the actual building.Thanks again!!
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Maj -
I've been volunteering with them here in Orange County, Ca. Very nice lot of people. I've been enjoying myself.
There is a mixture of trademen, retired craftsmen, and volunteers from assorted organizations. The plumbing this week was being done by pros. I expect the firm donated a crew for several days. Likewise the roofing - you could tell these folks had done this before.
Here they work Tuesday thru Saturday, 7:30-3:30. I try to avoid Saturdays as that is the time of Volunteers With Hammers from assorted organizations. That is very challenging, but works when there are enough experienced cadres to give leadership and direction to all those eager hammer. During the week you can settle in and get things done and staged for the Saturday work party.
I must say that they are very well equipped to build things. I was pleasantly surprised. The tools are first rate professional equipment (Skill 77s, Stabilia levels, Milwaukee SawsAlls, Emglo compressors, Senco nailers, etc.) and they range from trailerable radial arms down to palm nailers - and then there are those baskets of hammers.
You might want to talk to the VP-Construction for HfH-OC. He has mail. Drop me a note if you want the address.
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If the families that live in these houses had to go to subsidized rental housing or publicly owned housing, were kept along with their children from ever experiencing the pride of home ownership, how much more taxes would you have to pay on your lost profit? Habitat for Humanity seems like a much better investment than welfare of other sorts and I believe the payback will be much sooner.
*Brain - You're way off base in what you're saying about H4H. There is no way that they will sell a house for more than they paid for it. That goes against the entire reason Habitat was formed. I've been involved in many H4H houses, and I can tell you that most of the stuff is NOT donated on the projects I've been in on. At best, you will be able to buy things at cost. I also don't think that H4H is in competition with you, but will probably actually help you business in the long run. In ten years or so, these people will be looking to move up to a larger home. There's no way they could hope to do that if H4H didn't give them a leg up. Get over yourself already.
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I've been involved with the HfH chapter in LA for several years. It is fun, fulfilling and a challenge. We have a more formal organization for the Saturday "amateur" work, with a site leader and "crew leaders" who are essentially formen. Crew leaders are longer term Habitat volunteers who have, somehow, acquired the knowledge to supervise 5-7 people, many of whom can read a tape, hammer a nail straight, tell plumb from level, etc. The final houses wouldn't impress anyone pay big bucks for a custom house, but I have seen tract houses which weren't finished a lot better.
As for taking money out of the pockets of real world contractors. Habitat homeowners wouldn't be buying any kind of house if it weren't for Habitat. Most of the land we have built on has been donated by a government agency which couldn't do anything else with it, or was confiscated for drugs or taxes. By the time a private builder/developer got done dealing with the red tape involved there is no way to make a profit, so nothing would be built. If the government built the housing--well you know what would happen then.
The short of it is. You get out what you put in. If you participate with the intention of having some fun and doing some good you will enjoy it. If you go to teach the rubes how to build the right way you won't.
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Brian,
1250sq/ft,
b 3
car garage? Never heard of a house w/ more car than bath accommodations.
Tell us more!
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I have worked with them before. I found the materials to be sub par (which if you are building low income housing can be financially the only way they can do it) and the workmanship to be ignorant in our area. Simple things like following the simple grade heights around the building so that siding would like up. I refuse to do a cobbled up job like that and the HFH supervisor was so angry he stormed to his truck and peeled out! I had a crew of about 12 people who were willing to learn. I won't go on but I do not have anything good to say about this local chapter. That is where you are need to get information. In concept it is a great idea. I have found it really depends on the local leadership. Which for us is the greatest liability in my estimation.
S. W. Whitten
*In general I agree with you. In particular, the Habitat families I have met are hard working, striving to succeed. As a practical matter, minimum wage won't even come close to qualifying for a Habitat home. Even though the cost is low and the terms generous, there is a mortgage to pay. The serious welfare cases you describe get section 8 or some other type of public assistance.A big part of the "Habitat experience" is warm fuzzies all around. The houses are well built, even if they aren't cosmetically perfect. And, we do get call-backs to fix whatever goes wrong in the state-mandated warranty period.
*I had to come back to express my disappointment! This is a mostly volunteer organization with it's help coming right out of the community. In every community there are good people and un-savory people. You can find the same cross-section of the population in the Salvation Army, the Red Cross or you name it. Bottom line question has to be, Does this organization do some good or not. If the answer is yes then it is worthwhile. Each chapter will have it's weakness, but each volunteer has the chance to make things better too! I know, it's all in your point of view. As a friend of mine says,'Do something... lead...follow... or get out of the way!'
*Steve,I have to agree with you. H4H is a worth while organization. I sit on the board of the greater Columbus (ohio) hfh and have seen the positive impact it has. Part of what makes it work IS the cross section of pepole it attracts.Most of These pepole aren't proffesionals in the building trades. Don't expect them to be as knowledgeable or as profficent. What you as the proffesional should be doing is teaching and offering advice. This is where you can be of the most help on a site.To be a HUGE help, work behind the scenes. I know it is difficult to not be out there building. This is my 3rd year and I have spent very little time on sites. What many affiliates need is help with the logistics of building and training volunteers how to build.Any one who thinks hfh is competing with them for business is wrong. For more info contact HFH 1 800 habitator visit the web site: http://WWW.Habitat.ORG
*Here in southern peidmont NC HfH IS BOOMING AND WORTHWHILE. In our county (stanly) we're preparing for our 12th house. It takes very good organization from the onset. This means off the constuction site as well as on. A board of directors is a must looking after family selection,volunteer coordination,donation solicitation,etc. In our area HfH owners are required to give 500 hrs of "sweat equity" first in their own home and then future homes. On the site the days are tedious, but rewarding. Volunteer management is tricky and not a one man job. It has taken us 10 years and 12 houses to realize HfH homes can be built efficiently,economically,and with appreciable wokmanship. If anyones' intrested I can share more of my experience.
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Houston B Clark II, thanks. Would really like to know more about getting affiliated & organizing a core group,board of directors,sub-committees,etc. As I have stated earlier,we are just getting organized,and have alot of questions & concerns about our future as H4H volunteers.I do construction every day,so I am more interested in getting the behind the scenes experience.I know that it is going to be tough and discouraging at times, but I really feel led to be a part of this!!!Please E-mail me with your experiences and tips if you have the time.Thanks.
*We are just in the process of building our first house under Habitat so I can't address how well a house is built under the program yet. BUT, it has been made very clear to us that the primary purpose of Habitat is NOT building a house. It IS building a community. Building the house is the vehicle to encourage people to work together to solve a family's housing problem while improving the entire community. Out of the project we are told to expect better relations among groups and better understanding of each other. Additionally, there a many "help the poor get a house" programs but this one demands work from the family which is supposed to help them work for a home, not just a house.If, in fact, this is what happens then it seems previous comments have missed the primary focus of what Habitat is all about.
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Maj,
One of the best ways to learn is contacting a nearby affiliate that is alredy up and running. We have had start up affiliates watch our board meetings and sit in on committe meetings as well. If you can find one in your area it will be well woth the time spent. What ever you do, DON"T GIVE UP! Although it can be highly frustrating at times, this organization and ultimately it's purpose is well worth it.
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Personally i'm not real big on building free homes for folks. Let em work for them Like I did for mine. I do however donate quite regularly to the Cub Scouts (of which my son is one) and have donated a hefty amount to the Cleveland police department/American Red Cross annual public safety games through the design and construction of their courses. I feel better giving to those who deserve it as opposed to those who illegitimately expect it.
Pete Draganic
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Pete, finally someone else who makes sense. THANKS
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Pete, How do you figure the homes are free? Any one that gets a house through Habitat BUYS IT. They have a mortgage like every oe else. And yes they can and do lose the house if they don't make the payments.
In order to get a house a family needs to show consistent employment and a sufficent level of income. The difference is the dollar amounts are lower.
Habitat for Humanity is a hand up, not a hand out.
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I have worked on several H4H houses in a dozen different states. It has been a very rewarding and worthwhile experience. The quality of the homes varies from affiliate to affiliate, and in general I have found most to be fairly well built. It may not be fine homebuilding ,but are as good or better than many tract houses I have worked on. The goal is to provide adequate affordable housing for people in need, that are willing to put in the sweat equity that is required. An affiliate is dependant on good dedicated people, if you get these people involved I am sure you will be successful.
*As contractors, how can we in good conscience fight on friday for every dollar of a change order(or whatever) from a hard working customer, then on saturday go and give 8 or more hours, usually alot more than 8 with our own tools in most cases, for nothing? Are we saying that the person who makes a few more bucks for whatever reason, not only has to pay interest on his loan and our profit to build our business, and the one who has less gets our labor, tools and expertise for free? If I was one of my custom home customers and I saw me on a Habitat job, I'd be seriously pissed. I believe we should stay out of the habitat stuff out of respect for the ones we make pay. Let the weekend warriors and hobby guys get out there and volunteer. Obviously this post is only for the pro contractors not the hobby guys. I also know there are many hidden agendas from the pros to "get more work out of this" or get my name in the news and thus more paying work, hell the habitat people encourage it in private. Think about it, and come clean with your own conscience before you rip off a nasty post to me...... B.Conley
*Brian, I sincerely hope that you are always healthy, wealthy, and wise because I sure pity you if you ever need someone's assistance. You reap what you sow.
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Brian,as I said earlier, I am sorry you feel the way you do.As far as ripping off nasty posts,well, I think you're doing a good job at it so please let us get back to my original post.It is obvious you are discouraged by this orginization,that's fine, because there are plenty of phone solicitors that I hang up on,while you may be supporting them.I will not put them down,as maybe they to are for good causes,just not ones that interest me.Thank you Rob for the info & encouragement.We have met with other affiliates, and were very insightful.
*It is with trepidation that I tread here. But, now I must weigh in. Quite frankly, I give alot of myself to volunteer/charity work. I also make every attempt to remain anonymous, lest others think I am in it for the glory/exposure. I have not yet worked on a HfH project, but there is soon to be one in my area. I hope to be there.I want to be on this project for the very reason that it is a hand up for those less fortunate. There exists a huge difference between our paying customers--they can afford it--and the 'charity cases'. I have tried to substantiate the arguement against projects like HfH, but I come up lacking.Most of us take so much for granted, how can we not help others to upgrade their lifestyle? C'mon we are talking of a simple house! The results of our efforts would be less tangible than a paycheck, but immensely more rewarding. These projects are the first step up for many of these folks.BTW: I'm going to Tijauna this spring break with the kids to build a house--or two--in a week. Care to join me?
*It is glib to label everyone who is poor as lazy. What I'm reading here argues against all charity -- why should anyone get something they haven't earned? Really, there are many legitimate reasons one might not have enough money, such as a spouse heading for the hills and leaving the kids, having to support one's parents/relatives/dependents, having grown up with crummy education (an amazing number of people can't balance a checkbook and probably none of their teachers could either), alcohol/drugs, etc. These circumstances don't excuse poverty, but they do explain some of it. I've met any number of people who, lacking better skills or opportunities, work insanely hard for peanuts to support their families.Hard work is critical to success; it does not guarantee it. Personally I readily take credit for my successes, but I can't take all the credit. Do you really think your rich clients are all better than you? You must if you think the poor are all inferior. My joke to my Ayn Rand sister who thinks anyone who fails is stupid or weak was "yeah, I'm so self-made i even conceived myself." (One of the last things I said to her, she's really gone over the top.) Everyone owes something to or carries the burden of luck.So those of us with good luck share it because we don't think chance should run the world: we believe hard work should. Habitat families are working families who contribute their labor and mortgage payments, and often for the first time learn the financial management skills of paying for a house through Habitat. I am impressed by Habitat's holistic approach and their message, and would rather help those who need help through my donations and labor than through taxation or the hidden costs of the forgotten poor to the economy and society. The tragedy of so much public housing makes all too clear the need for discounted (not free) single-family housing.So that's my liberal rant! Doesn't sound so extreme does it? And I'll finally fill out this Habitat application I picked up the other day.
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Here, here Rich!! We all need different outlets. H4H is not for every pro out there. I believe we are pros in this field due to a God given talent. Not every one has the same talents. If we did we wouldn't need each other. Having been involved with H4H for 9 years I've yet to be denied a blessing. And that's kind of like the credit card commercial states," PRICELESS"
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Thank you andrew d for your "rant".By the way,for those who don't know the facts of H4H,all applicants for the new house to be built and SOLD,are screened by the various commitees and board of directors.The reason for the screening is so the house is NOT sold to welfare recipients or other non wage-earning deadbeats(sorry for the terminololgy),rather it be sold to someone who has had a tough go of it and is trying to get there feet on the ground by honestly working and making a living.
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Pete,
I'm with you poor folks and labor unions are the bane
of my existence. They all illegitemately expect
something for nothing.
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Wondering if anyone out there is involved with habitat for humanity?We are trying to get affiliated with HFHI in our county.Just in the orginizational part of the process.Any comments or experiences would be real helpful to us.