I am a new home builder in New Jersey. I have a serious “peaking” or “buckling” problem with a standard width strip oak floor. The problem appeared roughly 3 – 4 weeks ago (early Sept). Initially, it seemed isolated to one or two board seams, roughly aligned along a line parallel to the direction of the floor, in the kitchen traffic area along a line 10 – 12 feet overall. Along that line, there were 2 evident “peaks”, each 2 – 3 feet in length. The problem has begun to appear to a lesser extent beyond that initial line.
Observations: The area first noticed is directly, or nearly so, over a T & G Joint in the 3/4″ Ply subfloor. The main supply duct for the HVAC system is directly under this area. Relative humidity in the basement at that time measured 55%. Subfloor Moisture content measured 9%. Oakfloor measured at 6%.
History: This floor was installed at the completion of sheetrock, late August of 2006. The wood was loaded in the house and allowed to aclimate roughly a week, as I recall. Installer check subfloor moisture befor installing. The floor was finished in the winter, with a fully operational HVAC system, natural, with 3 coats of poly. In April of this year, the floor was sanded, stained and finished with 2 coats of Poly, at the new buyer’s request.
Investigation: I have removed what baseboard I can (mostly cabinets, installed on top of the floor) Clearance at the edges I can see is over 3/4″ to the plate. In one small length, the clearance is 1/2″, and the sheetrock was tight to, but not behind the hardwood. I cut out that rock, just in case.
The entire first floor of this home is hardwood, only the kitchen, as described has evidenced a problem.
Any thoughts?? What is the cause??
Replies
Check the HVAC duct for condensation on the outer side and it making this area of the floor cold in the summer. the floor should dryout over the winter and might "sit" back down. Drop the duct down and insulate all sides to give a thermo-break.
There is no condensation on the duct. We have considered insulating it, anyway. My HVAC contractor says I am nuts! The best part of this is my employer, the developer, moved into this home, and I can't find an answer, but the floor guy wants to go fishing.,..take out some boards, see what is below, etc. WRONG ANSWER.
Thank You
This condensation problem is the cause of some drop ceiling problems on a house I'm working on at the moment. The duct gets to below the dew point and the moisture starts to collect. In your case the floor soaks it up! Most Hvac guys would think the same as your guy.
I have to tell you that I have 5 other homes with the same HVAC configuration, same floor guy, close to same floor plan, all in the same 10 acre developent, with no floor problems. this one, my boss dicided to move into.
I understand where your coming from "why only this one?" My problem house is the highest in the development and at the top of the hill! should be the driest!
Can you check the moisture content of the sub-floor above the duct or close to it?
Done that. It is all accessible. That is where we got readings that measured an average of 9%. The basement itself had an ambient 55% in the air.
Do you have access to check the levels in the other houses?
I would still insulate the duct in january/febuary time to take advantage of the dry heating season in NJ. I think your getting a "cool" area caused by the duct and the condensation is collecting there just enought to tweak the floor. The top side is sealed and the underside is bare wood so any cupping caused will be from underneath.
If it were cupping, I would totally understand and agree. maybe this is similar, only concentrated?
Think of it this way. A/C on in the truck in the morning blowing on the glass (defrost) and you get a wet area on the outside cause only that part of the glass is cold below the dew point.
Got that. I need to check what the T-Stats are programmed for. Most of my other occupied homes are very conservative A/C users. Only one or two where no one is home at all for 10 or more hours each day.
Are you sure there isn't the same problem with some of the other houses? Unless the new owners complain, you're not likely to hear about it.One section of the 60 year old floor of my house is doing the same thing. I'm interested in this thread. So far, it seems that I will have to check out the register under my front hall.George Patterson
With the exception of only one of the other homes, I have been in the others recently enough to know there has been no problem. You must not be a builder/developer. There is no such thing in my world as a homeowner who doe not complain.
The duct work is a far fetched idea, but seems to be the only one left. If that is the cause, it would be the first time in 25 years I have seen such.
> You must not be a builder/developer. There is no such thing in my
> world as a homeowner who doe not complain.You're correct - I do renovation and repair work. In my world, if they don't like your work, they don't hire you again.George Patterson
Did your work before I did this work. I enjoyed your world way much more. I dont't get it...I still have the same standards and expectations, even using some of the same subs, and many way more professional and experienced than before. I am building better and more perfectly than I did starting out over 25 years ago...but it is a different, more confrontational environment.
It is what it is!
A couple of questions
Is there a dehumidifier in the house?
Was the floor installed over paper? Wax paper?
Early sept would be near peak humidity in your area. Seasonal humidity swings in your region are some of the highest in North America. Is it possible the installer forgot to reload his nailer and missed a board or two?
Gord
yes to dehumidifier. wood over Red rosin paper. Already checked floor with magnetic balls. nail pattern is not arguable.
Another Thought: You are right on that Aug/Sept is our peak humidity. We installed at that time. We held off to allow some adjustment. You figure maybe it did not reach full MC until this season? If so, with room to move, what"s up?
It sounds like you did everything right. So, either the floor failed or the sub-floor.
Your floor guy wants to pull the offending boards. Its the only way to know for sure what is going on.
Wait for a month, it will be easier to replace the boards.
Gord
So Gord............. What do you know ? Just kidding.
Let's Get the old man Budgell out for a beer soon
RF
On a hill by the harbour
Sorry about the hijack
Edited 9/28/2007 11:40 pm by Novy
Mmmm...I'm in!
Gord
I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Everything seems so perfect that it shouldn't buckle.
so
Could there have been a big water spill that nobody wants to admit?
or
Could the floor in that area be colder and thus attract enough condensate to swell, as has been mentioned?
Maybe a little foot dragging would be in order to see if the problem improves during the heating season. If it does then the HVAC pipe could be taken care of before the next AC season.
Do not see how, but it would help to explain. I work for the man I built the house for, so I gotta believe there is no spill. No kids.
Have you investigated the possibility of a tiny slow leak in plumbing or the spill line front the dishwasher in line with this problem?
also 55% RH sounds high to me,so if stil that high, it could be condensation near that ducting.
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No plumbing in the area, the dishwasher is on the other side of the kitchen. Only two adults living in the house, both professionals and out most of the time.
Could the cleaning people be dmap mopping the floor too aggresively?? I know...reaching for straws!
Then I lean to condensation above that ducting, which is easy to fix but time to know it it worked.Since there is a ply seam in subfloor right there, that can be a point where moisture passes up through.Is that 55% before the de-humidifier was installed or steady after?
Less than 40% is the goal
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Don't know about before. As a matter of course, as soon as I have reliable electrical, I set up dehumidifier in every basement of every house I build...they show better if they do not smell faintly damp, plus I think it helps to stabilize the house quicker. Never measured the moisture, do not put faith in the read out on the machine.
Dehumidifier has been plugged in in this basement since occupancy, as well.