A friend wants to use Ipe wood ,( see FWW April 2002) from South America, on his deck . It is 1X6. Extremely hard and difficult to work with according to sources, so why not use it. It is an attractive wood and I want to use hidden fastening, any Suggestions?
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Have plenty of sharp saw blades and drill bits on hand, way more than you think you'll need, plus router bits if you're contouring the edges. Use stainless steel hardware and screws unless you live in a very dry climate. Pre-drill all your screw holes. Don't breathe the sawdust, and try to avoid getting it on your skin. If you get splinters, get them out right away and disinfect the wound vigorously. Don't breathe the sawdust, and try to avoid getting it on your skin. Be careful of your back. And most importantly, don't breathe the sawdust, and try to avoid getting it on your skin.
Sunds like a hazmat job. Thanks for the info.
I believe this is the same wood that is called Pau Lope'. I used Pau Lope' on a curved deck and found it to be an exceptional deck product. I also used the Eb-Ty system which is a plastic biscuit with a stainless screws. This system allows for side fastening. I also glued it down with PL 400. On the but-ends I screwed through the top and plugged the holes with Pau Lope' bungs. Though I did find the dust a bit much and it did turn my clothes yellow, I otherwise found it reasonable to work with. I did however find that it did not like to be drilled and that brad-points work best. I never found it to bother my skin and I am paticularly sensitive to that sort of thing. Same with the splinters which were rare. Just start with a sharp chopsaw blade and wear a dust mask. It really is a great product. You can see the deck I did at the below link. I highly recommend this product for a deck. Also keep the end-grains sealed to avoid checking.
http://www.boulder-builder.com/dale%20deck.htm
If it's worth doing... its worth doing right!!!
New!!! Home Remodeling forum
Edited 6/5/2002 11:33:18 AM ET by LEES1100
Pau Lope is a trademarked name that one of the supply cartels uses for their ipe, which they claim to be plantation grown.
That deck you did was some improvement.<g>
Thanks for the clarification Mongo. The deck looks much nicer now as the stone-wall is in place and the lanscaping is done.
lee
If it's worth doing... its worth doing right!!!
New!!! Home Remodeling forum
Try this post...it has links to two other ipe threads...one on finishing, one on fastening. Great wood, great choice.
Ipe is great material, we have used it for 9 years now, more jobs every year with it ,now about 1/3 of my work is with the stuff,,one thing with the 1x6 "it has a way of cuping sometimes so we always use 1x4" with no problems at all,,if you go with the 5/4 X6" there is no problem at all,,in fact I could probley run my Tahoe on it loaded for the lake!..not me or any of my guys have noticed any problems with the dust we take the normal safety we use on any shop or field project John Hyatt deckmastersllc.com
HEY DEANE
GOOD DECK CHOICE
THE SAFEST WAY TO APPLY WITH NO SEEN FASTNERS
IS TO APPLY A LEDGER TO THE SIDE OF THE JOIST AND SCREW FROM THE BOTTOM
INTO THE DECKING HOLD LEDGER 1/8 DOWN SO FASTNERS PULL TIGHT
USE SS HEX HEAD SCEWS TORX HEAD OR SQ DRIVE
NZ,
I don't think I've seen your posts before. Welcome to Breaktime! I hope you like it here, and look forward to more of your contributions.
There is one thing I wonder about, though. Why are you SHOUTING at us? Have you noticed nobody else on here uses all caps? (Well, there are a few others, but very few.) Have you wondered why?
If the point of an online forum is communication, why use a technique that makes your messages harder to understand. If you don't care about communicating, why are you posting?
Do you find my questions offensive? Have you considered that perhaps I find your SHOUTING equally offensive? Maybe even more so?
what a tactful, sensitive post, dunc. I wonder if you would use the same words if you met NZ in person? leaning a little too heavy on the Starbucks?
>> what a tactful, sensitive post, dunc.
Thanks for noticing! I put quite a bit of effort into making tactful and sensitive. I'm glad it shows.
>> I wonder if you would use the same words if you met NZ in person?
Hard to tell. You can't get much sense of a personality from one post, so I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. The guy might be perfectly pleasant to be around and have a lot to contribute to the forum. In that case, yes, I would use about the same words.
But what I've seen so far suggests that he believes the time he saves by typing in all caps, with no punctuation, is much more important than the time it costs the readers here trying to understand his messages. It appears that taking a little time to understand and follow the conventions in a new enviroment is not a high priority for him. He doesn't appear to be interested in learning how to use tools skillfully.
The pre-drilling requirement for ipe, because of its extreme hardness, might make his ledger technique less attractive, but I see no evidence that he considered that. He advocates pulling the decking down tight against the joists, in contrast with the commercial fasten from below systems I've seen, that hold the decking up off the joists by the thickness of the material. He asserts that his way is the safest, without describing what makes it safer or what makes the alternatives less safe.
If I had an opportunity to spend some time with him and found out that my suspisions about his personality and competence were justified, then no, I think I would be a lot harder on him in person.
But I figured, One step at a time. First let's see if we can jolly him into carrying his half of the responsibility for communication.
>> leaning a little too heavy on the Starbucks?
No, but thanks for asking. I quit using caffeine about two years ago.
John agrees with the>> the Uncle,,but I am geting major yucks with these posts,,Like really Laughing Out Loud,,,so funny with this word thing,,Ipe,,I just cant see upside down , runing the cordless, trying to get the spacing right when if you want that look,just use the bisket jointer and the Lex Ann clips,,so far I have never had a customer who wants to pay for the no screw holes showing way to go,,really are those little bitty screw holes really going to bother us while we are out there trying to relax in the hot tub, with the gril going, the smoke of the wood fire in the air,the day over, sunset thru the trees,,,,guys,,chill out,,these out door areas are a thing to enjoy after work,,,without the bad vibes,,,John Hyatt deckmastersllc.com
Mr Uncle Dunc,
I hope my contribution to the forum did not offend you
My typing skills are not the finest but point well taken and I will
try to improve. My method of fastening is very time comsuming but we have
worked most of the bugs out. Usually I batten the underside of my decks
so this hides any imperfections. The real fun comes in the handrails , we have
developed a panel system with mortice and tenons .....run the components
through a moulder with a profile that also hides fasteners..... thats taken
around three years to perfect but I have labor cost around 8.00 a ft
seems to be popular on beach homes.
I thank you for your comments
Thank you for your very gracious response.
Your message was perfectly inoffensive. Your experience is directly relevant to the topic, and I sincerely meant it when I said welcome to Breaktime. I'm glad you decided to stay in spite of what you may have experienced as a rather brusque reception. I also don't see anything wrong with your typing skills. Using or not using all caps is a personal policy decision, not a matter of skill. :)
As I told skmd, I don't necessarily _agree_ with with everything you wrote. I do agree that fastening from below is better, but I'd be interested to hear what makes the battens superior to the commercial metal angles.
Edited 6/12/2002 3:59:11 AM ET by Uncle Dunc
Uncle,
The only reason I prefer the wood batten is the fact that it reduces the
amount of metal in the deck. Building mostly ocean front homes I have
learned the hard way the least exposed fastners the best. 316 ss nails do
not hold up in a face nail application . Maze supplies the best galv nail
but they will fail in about 3 years . Screws are the worst, they pocket water
in the head and surface rust . over the long haul a smooth face bronze ring shank
gives us the least worry. all these reasons I hope will explain why I choose to fasten
from below. Explaining to a client why there deck looks like its been under water
is a tuff call. Thank you for your kind reply and I look forward to future talks
AHA!
A thread with personality!
It's too bad that poor old boy couldn't spell when he tried to insult Dunc. I couldn't understand what he was trying to say until I verbalized it. Then I was suprised to hear such filthy language pouring forth from my lips. Amazing how pollution can creep in and contaminate things. But I openned the window and things are OK now.
I don't remembner seeing much of Uncle Dunc until maybe two months ago but he has rapidly risen to the top of my list of folks worth reading. He is ever the gentleman and has solid information. His degree of maturaity leads to suspect a 62 year old man with a very neatly trimmed mustache and a room full of good books. He lives in God's country so maybe he's an angel too. I thought it was very tastefull the way he pointed out that ALL CAPS is found to be offensive on most forums and apparently NZ5 is mature enopugh to respond in kind.
;>)
I am extremely sensitive to airborne particles and getting more so with passing time but I didn't notice any reaction to the IPE' dust. If I were milling it or working in a closed space, I would naturally be more carefull than if I'm cutting a few times while installing on a deck outside.
The reason it is hard on tooling is that there are metals in the wood that the tree takes from the soil. Some rot resistent woods get that way by building chemical compounds (resins, insecticides, etc) in the wood. IPE' uses minerals that bugs and bacteria don't care for. The obvious one is sulphur which is the cause for the yellow colour in the dust. Sulphur is used in plenty of medicines, some folks find it too abundant in their well water, and it was used externally for treatment of wounds prior to the developement of systemic antibiotics, so I don't think it is terribly poisnonous to have around. Still - caution is always better than a trip to the hospital. I found out the hard way about Port Orford Cedar dust in my lungs.
The way IPE' resists water is with a waxy substance. I found it intresting when prredrilling the countersinks for the screws that I would have to clear my bit every drill hole because the wax would hold onto the dust created and gum up hard.
So there are two things working against your tooling. One is metals wearing the sharp edge. The other is gum buildup. Cleaning the blade can help because gums holding metal at the point of friction makes heat which accelerates the process of dulling. blades that I might normally clean every week would get it three-four times a day with IPE'
I'm intrested in hearing more about your system for rails on waterfronts. I work on an island in Maine. I've got a sub starting soon on a 156' x 6' pier. You might consider contacting Andy Engel about putting you IPE' experiences in the form of a magazine article. Don't worry about your writing skills. He has a whole room full of assistant editors to help put things together.
Excellence is its own reward!
Thank you very kindly! Where do I send the check? :)
Actually I cultivate more the Ted Kaczynski look, but you got the books right.
I was surprised that NZ5 said not even 316 stainless will hold up at the beach. Has that been your experience as well?
My My..I seem to be in way over my head,,I am just trying to make a living at this,,biskit joints in the Ipe handrail detail and runing the 2x2s thru the router table and I can barley make a buck at it,,but one thing I have not had happen to me is the 316SS screws having a problem with salt water or anything else,,I have projects in Huston and Eugune Oregon, and here in OKC,,hmmthe oldest is 6 years old and no problem with them, they are all face screwed 1x4 Ipe,,John Hyatt deckmastersllc.com
Not yet. That comment had my attention too.Excellence is its own reward!
NZ5, Got pics?Andy Engel, Forum moderator
NZ5:
We use angle brackets on our up-scale jobs. I think I like your ideal better
charlie
I am about to start my second IPE deck. Yes, it is hard but not difficult to work with use carbide blades and bits. I put all of my decks together with DECK MASTER rails.