I’m writing an article for an upcoming issue on framing interior walls. I plan to make it specific to remodeling, but other than that don’t have a particular focus yet. But I need your help.
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So if you have any advice or tips, or even tool and material suggestions, I’d be grateful to hear them. Throw anything my way – from your method for removing drywall (systematic or haphazard) to a specific brand of plastic and masking tape that you use to contain dust.
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I’d welcome any questions or issues that you’d like to see addressed in the article as well. They can be as general as: What’s the best way to build a partition wall within a finished home? And as specific as: How do I determine what length screws to use to secure the top plate to the joists above a finished ceiling?
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Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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Chris Ermides, associate editor
Replies
your post touches a nerve, why is FHB so incestuous? You really need to make a concerted effort to bring in authors not at arms length. Your subject suggests this is an article on framing, but then you mention tape, dust and screws? Sounds more like a diy topic ..
sincerely
Ian
Ian,<!----><!----><!---->
I'm not sure how asking breaktimers and FHB readers for input on an article I'm putting together is, in your words, an "incestous" act. If it's because I, as an editor, am writing the article, then I have to challenge your assumptions. Let me explain...<!----><!---->
I'm reaching out to our long list of contributors for input as well, and calling on my years of experience as a remodeler/carpenter. With all of that in mind, I'm in a position as the author to gather the best information and experience from a deeper well: Breaktimers, existing contributors, and FHB readers (who might be potential future contributors) as a group have a lot more experience than a single person. And the article will be richer for it.<!----><!---->
With regard to the tape, dust, and screws - touché. They weren't the greatest examples; my bad for including them. <!----><!---->
Your post touches a nerve here as well: Instead of railing my process, how 'bout offering up some questions or comments specific to framing that will improve the article - especially for pros?<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->Chris<!----> <!----><!---->
Sir .. I wasn't railing on your process, but as an editor with FHB, you should not also be submitting articles to the magazine, this contest should not be open to employees and family. When FHB was first started it was modeled after Scientific American, the articles were not addressed to the diy community, and I assume, properly refereed. For those not familiar with this, any article submitted would be reviewed by a number of peers and subject matter experts. As the contributors dwindle to staff and Mike G, the value of FHB is greatly reduced. Write an article worth reviewing and ask breaktimers for their comments before publishing, otherwise your putting the cart before the horse.
Articles appear in the magazine in a number of different ways. But, very few of the articles that are published come to us from a reader's submission. It's not because we aren't open to them, it's just that folks send them to us AFTER the project has already been completed. Some attempt to document the process by taking photos themselves - thinking that this will strength their submission. But it doesn't. the photos that we get with submissions often have problems that go beyond poor quality; they typically don't have enough information in them. We don't get a lot of space - whether it's 4 pages or 6 - to tell a story. So we have to use as few photos as possible - which means that they need to contain as much information as possible. Our model is to develop the story w/ an author and then go to the actual job and take photographs ourselves. It's on the photo shoot that we pick up insights that an author may not have mentioned earlier, and when we start to pull the pieces of an article together. <!----><!----><!---->
When we, the editors, write an article we don't "submit it". We decide as a staff that we need to do an article on a specific subject, like paint-grade trim, spray foam, deck fasteners, or where to put the blocking. The rationale is as I said before: we're in a position to research and gather multiple perspectives. The decision to develop an article like this is always with the readers in mind. We sit around a room and say, we haven't covered Spray Foam yet - and our readers could really use that information. Or, we need to do an article on remodeling walls...instead of limiting it to one person's perspective and project, let's do it in-house so that we can gather multiple voices and insights. Much like Justin Fink's "Where do you want the blocking". <!----><!---->
Sounds more like a remodeling article than a framing article. But here is a tip.
When constructing or deconstructing on one side of a wall. Make sure the prized collection of plates (or whatever) are taken down from the other side of the wall!
3m masking tape. to hold 3m plastic for dust control with cheap duct tape to hold plastic to carpet.
Is it permissible to have a layer of sheetrock between the new top plate and the existing ceiling framing? Wouldn't it be better to snap lines and cut out the sheetrock? And I assume that you will be advising the diy-hgtv-type readers on the best way to add a top plate parallel to the ceilign joists.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks FastEddie
What do you mean by "permissible"?
and thanks in advance for explaining the best way to add a top plate parallel to the ceiling joists...
Chris
118551.4 in reply to 118551.1
Is it permissible to have a layer of sheetrock between the new top plate and the existing ceiling framing? Wouldn't it be better to snap lines and cut out the sheetrock?
On a truss roof attached to interior walls with sliding truss clips, it is important NOT to attach the top plate of the new wall to the framing above - except by sliding truss clips also. And if you cut out the ceiling sheetrock below blown-in insulation, be prepared for a shower - and to go back into the attic and replace it upon completion.
View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Thanks, Huck. That's exactly the kind of input I was hoping for.
Good point. But what if it's not a truss roof? Or what if there is a habitable second floor above? Is it better to have the top plate fastened directly to the exsting framing, or separated by a layer of sheetrock? And to follow up with your comment, assuming it is a truss roof, do you leave a gap between the new wall sheetrock and the exisitng ceiling to prevent cracks? "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Good point. But what if it's not a truss roof? Or what if there is a habitable second floor above? Is it better to have the top plate fastened directly to the exsting framing, or separated by a layer of sheetrock?
I don't worry about sheetrock between the framing. I can't see how it could matter much, but then a lot depends on the individual project, there's no one way fits all. The structural implications of the wall being added are worthy of some thought, i.e., if you are going to frame up tight to any kind of a load bearing situation, do you want a footing under that new wall?
Its funny how they make the trusses "float" over the interior walls, then sheetrock to the bottom of the trusses, and to a backing board nailed over the top plate of the wall. So I don't have a pat answer for that one. In my garage I added some walls and left them a tad below the ceiling, drywall and all. I can't remember running into this, but inside a truss roof house, I would probably leave the walls a quarter inch low, but sheetrock tight to the ceiling."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Seems like if I looked through back issues I'd probably find at least a dozen articles covering this very subject.
If I watch TOH for 4 weeks I'd see this same subject covered.
Sure, there's a hundred ways to approach any given subject, but this one's pretty basic.
Will this be the centerpiece of another issue that makes me think "DO NOT RENEW" when I've looked through it in 10 minutes and found nothing of value?
Joe H
Joe,
What can I cover in an article about remodeling interior walls that would make you think, "This is why I'm keeping my subscription"?
It's a sincere question.
Thanks for your feedback.
What? Did everybody double up on their cranky pills???
Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
when the wall has a pocket door in it, thicken the wall either by adding a layer of plywood to each side
or make the wall a 2x6 wall and use flat studs at the pocket
this will do a couple of things.. the plywood will stiffen the skinny steel studs in the pocket kit, give a fastening surface for things like kitchen cabinets. the plywood option will frame at 4 1/2 "
the 2x6 wall will do the same thing, but it will frame at 5 1/2 "
the normal pocket door kit will frame a wall at 3 1/2"Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think the problem is every wall you tear into is different and what you can put in 4 or 6 pages isn't going to cover the subject.
This is the kind of thing that takes the inherent mechanical ability to look at a problem and find a solution.
Those that have that ability don't need this article, those that don't aren't doing this for a living.
The DIY guy might gain something, but when he opens the wall and doesn't find the same thing as what is in your pictures he's stuck.
Not trying to rain on your parade, but articles like this just aren't interesting.
Sorry, Joe H
"I think the problem is every wall you tear into is different and what you can put in 4 or 6 pages isn't going to cover the subject."That is very true and something to that effect should accompany almost every article in the pages of FHB knowing their audience.The problems comes in when a customer or DIY sees an article or a TV DIY show and then theinks of themselves as knowing. Then they try to tell me how to...
because they have been predisposed, not even knowing there may be ten ways to do a thing, each way adapted to the location and materials at hand.For instance sometimes I will platform fame a wall short and shim it in, and other times toenail the studs to the fixed plates.. It varies from one job to the next according to the almost infinite number of variables.And is part of what makes the work fun.But newbies should not get the attitude that one article in the pages of FHB makes them an expert
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One really good piece of advice for the DIY on this ( assuming that is who the article is directed at, LOL) A wall needs to be built plumb! Sounds too basic to those of us who do it all day long, but after all, this is a basic skills article. When I think of the DIYs who have asked me advice who had problems hanging doors or cabinets, it was because the wall was off plumb.And a good 40% of the plumbsticks I have ever looked at in hardware stores are not accurate, which explains it.So a decent sidebar onb how to buy an accurate tool and how to read it would be invaluable to the intended audience, IMO.Now, what can we do to get rid of the damn Lowes banner ad stuck into the front of every thread? You guys are now taking over half of my browser viewing real estate and adding 6-20 seconds to every page load.
My calculator tells me that with my post count, that means if I were to continue posting here and adding value to this site, you guys will have stolen about 140 hours from me in forced waits in the next five years. I don't think I'll be tolerating that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've let my sub lapse for the same reason. To FHB's credit though, you can only build a house so many ways. I found the same thing when I was really into cars, there's only so much you can write about a small block Chevy.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Here are a few - maybe already mentioned...
use structural screws like GRK's R4 when ever you are working to a wall with good finish to save on the opposite side. Hammering can knock plaster loose and cause extra repairs.
Pay careful attention to where water supply and waste lines will run. More than half of remo work involves kitchens and baths, so if your layout works with faucet and drain locations, you will spend less time swearing at the plumber and he at you.
In basements, I glue bottom PT plate to slab with PL Premium and weight it in place overnight, esp when there is radiant heat in slab. The PL P adhesive practically welds the wood to the crete. In seismic areas, mechanical fasteners might also be needed.
Remo often happens on older homes that have floor framing overspanned. Be sure to check that, even if you are working in an area where no inspection will prevail. The time to beef things up is while it is all open.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
well, I see that with 15 posts, very little has been positive so I guess those hadn't been covered yet!Makes me wanna go think up some more....Guys, this is not the time or place for attacking a guy trying to earn a living. If you want to decide how to edit the magazine, go buy it, or start your own.I have my own bones to pick, but not with this individual. There is a corporate entity there that looks just like a brick wall. if you wanna beat your heads against it...Meanwhile, it is what it is.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well, I see that with 15 posts, very little has been positive so I guess those hadn't been covered yet!
Makes me wanna go think up some more....
Guys, this is not the time or place for attacking a guy trying to earn a living. If you want to decide how to edit the magazine, go buy it, or start your own.
I have my own bones to pick, but not with this individual. There is a corporate entity there that looks just like a brick wall. if you wanna beat your heads against it...
Meanwhile, it is what it is.Just one more reason why I have such tremendous respect for you.
Hi Cermides,
After all the bashing, I will agree with Piffin, that it's nice someone is utilizing all of their resources....so Thank you.
framing interior walls. I plan to make it specific to remodeling
I come at this area from several angles....builder of each of my own homes and someone who helps friends & family with projects along with too many years of experience running network cables in old homes that have been converted to commercial offices.....and I still come here regularly to add and keep my knowledge up to date. A man not willing to at least listen and learn is a man that will eventually drown when offered a floatation device.
My biggest 2 cents, worth about 10 cents....."KNOW, KNOW & KNOW" what your hidden surroundings are BEFORE you drill, cut, screw, nail etc. Tear out doesn't mean tear up. I've gone behind others to see why a network cable has failed only to find a screw right through it. A simple wire trace tester would have provided all they needed to save the customer 2 days of down time and $300....idiots.
If it means dragging yourself through soggy wet moldy crawlspaces and balancing through a dusty fiberglass filled attic to properly do the job, then so be it....if you're not into doing your prep work then it's time to find another job.
I realize mistakes and accidents are going to happen....hind site is 20/20....but foolish things never cease to tick me off.
Again, investigate your remodel job before jumping in tool first with closed eyes.
Pedro the Mule - Stubborn to the last drop
Being still relatively green to posting here I wondered what all the attitude was about. I laughed at piffin's post and so decided to risk being too basic and write up the simple approach that I take. At least it's a positive approach i guess.I have worked w/ guys who build walls in place in a remod and screw all the studs at a "toenail". I don't like doing that if I can build something sturdier. I always mark my plate location (square, snap lines, etc) cut the plates, stack and measure (the traditional way I guess of subtracting 3" strong), cut the studs a bit short (especially if I really don't want to patch anything around the new walls location, nail it together, raise and shim it loose. If I need to determine the location and don't have access from above I will mark the sides of the top plate before I fasten it and punch holes to determine the location and check for anything that would ruin my day. Then it's fasten the bottom plate, plumb and fasten the top. If I can't get all the studs in because of a fit i still put together whatever I can.If it's parallel, then I scab a piece on if it's close (that's theory - never been that lucky), or just suck it up and open the ceiling up enough to put bracing between the joists every 3-4 feet. If I can do this from above that is just swell too. What would really affect this is the finish that will be going on the wall. If it's crown than I always want to disrupt the drywall/plaster as little as possible so that it contains the project. If it's going to be rocked anyway than a patch along the ceiling is more work but not really that big of a deal - the top of the wall will be taped to the ceiling anyway. Unless the ceiling is textured... a very important consideration when planning the project. Most of my remods include trim so I have never considered the effect of the ceiling above or beside the top plate. I only concern myself with getting a wall in that won't move when I try to shake it. That should keep the top from cracking even if it's just taped and a smooth finish. At least in my little world...Ok, is that too basic to help?
Hello,
As a remodeling contractor, I want to thank you for soliciting input. I still enjoy most of the articles, and recognize the challenges of writing for a mixed professional and do it yourself audience. I've been doing this for awhile, but still have plenty to learn.
As far as remodeling and interior walls, it would be good to see an article about using steel studs. The worse framing lumber gets, the more inclined I am to use steel studs for building partition walls. Especially in basement finishes where we are required to build "Floating Walls", here in Colorado.
You could also enlighten people about engineered wood for framing applications.
You've had responses focusing on attaching to trusses, and responses pertaining to basements. You could also do a layout lesson for rake walls, in case somebody is finishing an attic.
Ok, I don't know you, so my comments certainly were not personal. But I have to agree, at least in principle, with some of the other posters. it sounds like you're going to do a This Old House type article, lots of white paper around slick pictures, lots of labels with a few cutsey words. But nothing of real substance. Great idea, but unfortunately the editors won't give you enough pages to do a proper article. What will you have, maybe 3 pages? you need 4-5 times that to make a useful article. Like FHB used to do 15 years ago.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Just enough info to get people in trouble.
Sorta like an HD sat morning tile your bathroom class that lasts 45 minutes.
Here's a few, none very original.
keep your nails out of the middle 1 1/2" when nailing studs to studs, or plates to joists/blocking/sheathing. makes eventual drilling for wires and pipes easier.
if you are adding studs into a bay that is too narrow to conveniently toe-nail, or to a corner where toe-nails may not find plate meat: cut the stud to length, then cut a couple of blocks that fit the bay, and nail each end of the stud to the blocks. then you can pop that c shaped stud/block into the space and nail the blocks down/up, securing the stud.
as someone else noted, if you're standing framed walls, cut them short, and shim them, or use grease or wax to help slip them into place.
k
If "stand up room" is tight ... and ya don't want to beat the hell out of the plaster ceiling or hardwood floor to stand the newly framed wall ... use both an additional top and bottom plate. Attach both top plate to ceiling, bottom plate to floor ... then frame a standard wall to fill the space. I like to frame the new a hair tight and tap into place with a sledge for a snug, easy fit.
These is no better method to demo old plaster and/or old drywall then a sawzaw with a brand new blade held at a light angle set on low speed. Virtually no dust what so ever ... cuts thru anything ... loosens no plaster.
for closing in said wall ... there's no foul with cutting the drywall "exact" to the existing, coping with the utility knife as needed for a zero tolerence fit ... then caulking said joint with alex Painters caulk. If yer insecure in your manhood let the first coat dry and double back caulk.
some walls go up quicker building them on the floor and standing, some go quicker setting the plates and infilling the studs. Neither is wrong or right. Neither is stronger. Same with hand nails, gun nails or screws. Use the right fastner and it's not gonna fall down. And liberal doses of construction adhesive has and will continue to take the place of the odd fastner here and there.
and with all remodeling ... check existing conditions ... then decide what's more important.
absolute plumb, level and square ... or the apprearance of such.
usually it's the appearance of such, unless we're talking doors.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Your post pretty much sums it up. It ain't rocket science but there are a lot of pitfalls. I think Murphy's Law prevails on jobs like these...
I can't add much because my expertise is basically in new work. I've done enough remod to know that every situation is different and one size does not fit all.
My only tip: there is a "plaster" blade made for the sazzall that is shorter, double sided and very tough. I had one once for about a year and it worked very good. Of course, once it was "used up", I never found another one and just use whatever is in my box...which is usually an old dull one LOL!
Wait...I've thought of another tip: bring in a garbage can lined with heavy duty contractor bag. When you rip a chunk of drywall off, put it directly in the bag. All small stuff goes immediately in the bag. Take the bags out to the truck before they get too heavy. When you get to the dump, open the bags and empty them. I can get five cycles out of most bags.
Take the bags out to the truck before they get too heavy.
HNave you noticed that the bags seem to be getting too heavy much sooner now? "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
HNave you noticed that the bags seem to be getting too heavy much sooner now>>>.
That is a given!>G<
btw ...
I do agree with others that think the authors of articles should actually know what they're writing about and not have to get their answers from an internet site!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hi JeffBuck,
know what they're writing about and not have to get their answers from an internet site!
To defend the writer, I don't recall him stating that the internet is his "only" resource.
To me it's refreshing to see a writer make a reach at a multitude of information locations. So much of what I read in the press today is whatever single sided personal adjenda they have in mind.
This forum is simply "one" of many areas for the author to research and he's getting slammed for including those that actually give a $#%* about their quality of work.
We put ourselves down by not supporting those that are making a sincere attempt at supporting us.
Pedro the Mule - If you don't like it that's fine - have fun with it instead and enjoy a brighter day!
I never saw an questions from him about "how to".Rather it is a very open ended question about what area(s) to cover.From that he will develop a focus area.It might end up only covering possible hidden conditions and what to look for before starting.Or it might cover demo with a side bar on dust control.Or might be one on using metal studs..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Hi BillHartman,
I never saw an questions from him about "how to".
Rather it is a very open ended question about what area(s) to cover.
I agree but he was fair when stating.....upcoming issue on framing interior walls. I plan to make it specific to remodeling, but other than that don’t have a particular focus yet.
I look forward to this writers process......choose area (he did), seek ideas (us), develop outline, research topics, focus (possibly us again), proof read (don't see enough of this most of the time) & publish.
If we've thought articles were too short in the past, then ask the writer to press his editors for more real estate, don't beat up the writer. We've been given an opportunity to contribute ideas in a positive light. Are we encouraging this to continue in the future or telling him to go away and expect him to do a job that compliments our thought processes.
We need to tell the writer what we need to see and back it up with "why" so he can petition the publisher for more space. If it happes, fantastic, we made headway, if it doesn't, we can drop our subscriptions.
In the mean time I still say this writer was extremely clear about his "initial" intentions and was unfairly made the target of others shortcomings.....Why?
Pedro the Mule - Stubborn but fair
"Why?"It's not just this writer.Every winter, toward the end of winter we see a lot of "cabin fever", on this forum.This year it seems that the comination of winter and the economy has beaten all the 'happy' out of some people here. It is showing up all over. Not just in this thread.....
Re. dust control.
Seal off any air return in the work area. Best to shut down any supplies-covering/or sealing in the event trash falls into a floor register (or wall) opening.
Further, shut down the forced air furnace during demo, it will pull dust out of a pretty well sealed room.
and the most important, remember to turn the furnace back on b/4 you go home.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Good one!DW is a member of a ladies sewing club where they make quilts and stuff to sell to support charitable activities. Couple years ago, I went in with her top pick something up during the winter when another contractor had been doing some work there.
She came unglued! because they had not covered anything at all - dust everywhere, and the chop saw was right over top of the largish 3'x4' grate for the cold air return plenum. You could look down and see it 2" deep in sawdust, shavings, and chips!I loaned the club my dust collector/air cleaner and got free PR out of it.I imagined all the old gals chirping about the mess he had made and got some free entertainment value as well.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Taking care of the return air and shutting down the furnace makes all the work of temp walls and other dust control worthwhile. To forget it compromises the #### out of all the other work.
Same thing goes with a fan in the window. Homowners might think they're doing you a favor (or trying to keep themselves cool) by opening the windows in "their side" of the enclosure. However, depending on direction and wind speed, they could be doing more to dust up their homes. Similar with them turning on the air-less sweat or less dirt.
More often than not using a couple of these extras get the response from the homowner that "you sure take pains to keep down the mess".
Paul, do you have a "side up" on your drops and runners? Mrs Daverio once winced at the "color" of my runners from the door to the room. I tried to placate her by lifting the corner "it's only dirty on this side".
She still gave me a look, no pleasing that woman.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
That's why i stopped using dropclothes or cloth/rubber runners for walkways. Thinks can get under and scratch the floorIf it's carpet I use pro-tect or a similar protect....bonus it can usually stay down until the jobs done. and at the end the carpet is cleaner than when you startLong term hard flooring... brown builders paper and 1/8" hardboard with seams tapedeverything else I use a runner like this: http://www.dropcloth.com/It doesn't slip and when it starts to look ratty they get cyled to different uses. They last for a long time
Barry E-Remodeler
I was thinking mainly of the ones you pickup every nite-those from the door to the room. Pickup, shakeout, replace the next morning.
Not as excited about the stairway placement-takes time. Tried the "Protective Products" for a while-a little too slick on the carpeted stair for residents in stocking feet. Also had some carpet "discolor" one time. Quit using the product after having to pay for cleaning. Ran the stickdown around the room at the wall, dropped the rest. Week later-dark band around the room. Beats me.
I pickup the walkways everynite-homowners would track it around the house if left in place-eventho they usually say "let it sit there overnite". Think there's too much chance for them tripping etc to not make the effort of replacement.
You have to think of these things thoroughly lest you get #### ed. I had a job once that went from garage, across the house to the "maids back stair", up the stairs, back down the hall, up the stairs to the unfinished attic. The entire house was in use, no other alternative than pick it all up at nite and replace in the morning. Added almost an hour each process per day. A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
<<I was thinking mainly of the ones you pickup every nite-those from the door to the room. Pickup, shakeout, replace the next morning.>>I was also. I really hate the painters drops and runners for that use. If the kids and pets don't scatter them around, the subs and workers will. <<Not as excited about the stairway placement-takes time. Tried the "Protective Products" for a while-a little too slick on the carpeted stair for residents in stocking feet. Also had some carpet "discolor" one time. Quit using the product after having to pay for cleaning. Ran the stickdown around the room at the wall, dropped the rest. Week later-dark band around the room. Beats me.>>That surprises me, I've been using those products for years on stairs and rooms and never had a problem. I do the whole room though and many times the clients complimented us when we took it up at the end of the job. And it can't be as slippery as using a painters runner on the stairs. Check out the link in my last post...they cling to the stairs well. looks like a thin carpet pad<<I pickup the walkways everynite-homowners would track it around the house if left in place-eventho they usually say "let it sit there overnite". Think there's too much chance for them tripping etc to not make the effort of replacement.>>I wouldn't leave loose runners overnight either. Like I said to much stuff gets under them. But the Protective Products stay put and I can sweep them or even use my wet swiffer damp mop on them when needed. clients love it<<You have to think of these things thoroughly lest you get #### ed. >>I hear ya
Barry E-Remodeler
The entire house was in use, no other alternative than pick it all up at nite and replace in the morning. Added almost an hour each process per day.
Sometimes it's worth having a helper to do just that even if they sit on their hands the rest of the day.
Think he could keep the crumbs on the runners till he got outside?
I can think of a TON of things for a helper to do.
Most involve carrying.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Yes good side up - I learned many moons ago to fold to center. Same with tarps on roof, but for different reasons.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
U mentioned my favorite ... box fans on my side of the plastic.
negative air pressure ... blow the bad stuff outside.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
And change the filter after a day or two of dusty demo, once a week after that and then again at the end of the job.
Leave a few extra filters behind as good will.
And re: to Piff's suggestions...........crown those studs and be sure to put the crowns all facing in the same direction. If a bath or kitchen, typically the crowns might face away from that room.
Hi Luka,
Every winter, toward the end of winter we see a lot of "cabin fever", on this forum.
This year it seems that the comination of winter and the economy has beaten all the 'happy' out of some people here. It is showing up all over.
Yeah, I've seen that too...it's like they come here to have a great time and then forget all about their purpose when they respond....must be out of beer money.....
The best encouragement I can give at this point - Although there are a few exceptions here and there - for the most part people - there is still a lot of work to be had - my biggest and best paying customer was living on 38% profits the last 10 years - now he's living on 2% and cut his crews pay by 25% - he's not had to lay off a single person and has so much work that with overtime his employee's are taking home the same they always have - so more work for the same pay but everyone is working and he's taken the biggest % cut in income - fine gentleman.
This example is to encourage everyone - make the adjustments - the easy money is gone for some period of time but money is still out there - If you happen to fall into an area that business is non-existent - most states offer continuing ed at sharply discounted rates at tech schools - If you're an American - Act Like It - Make the most of what you do have and thank God that you're in this great country - even with all of our mutual problems, I can't think of any other country in the world that I'd rather be in.
Pedro the Mule - Best to each and every one - Semper Fi
He could do a whole series of articles on the topic. Which could then be easily compiled as the basis for one of Taunton's books. In fact he would probably be better off starting with the premise that he is writing a book "Framing for Remodeling", as part of a set of books on remodeling. They could publish a chapter each issue, starting with the site reconnaissance, design, and permitting. Followed by articles on the tools required. Throwing in reviews of some of the newer or high end tools available would be a valuable adjunct article for the magazine issue.
Asking such an open ended question, you're sure to get answers that are all over the place. Maybe you should be more specific. Ask one question, and then you'll get enough straight answers to get a consensus.
What's the best way to keep dust spreading throughout the house when doing demolition? Make a dust curtain held up by extension poles (3rd hand,etc) at the corners, good blue tape around the perimeter. Leave an overlapped opening to get in and out. 2 mil plastic on the floor, tape curtain to that.
What's the best way to remove drywall/plaster? Jeff Buck said it...
Sawzall with a plaster cutting blade (or go through 10 or 15 wood
with nails blades) Make shallow cuts (I found out once when someone had put a waterline 1/2 behind the drywall) Cut bite sized chunks 2x2, 3x3 easier to pull off if drywall is screwed to studs
What if I ordered a retrofit window with a 3 week lead time and I want to get started now? Do the inside work first...cut out the drywall on either side to the closest stud that won't be removed.
Frame in opening (kingstuds, header, trimmers) where you want it,
then when window arrives, cut exterior material to exact size of
rough opening.
I noticed that lately FH has made the effort to attract DIYers with more basic articles. I occasionally look at Family Handyman and have seen some kooky techniques suggested.
I see how you'd want to maintain credibility when writing articles for newbies about things that Pif and Jeff take for granted.
Jen
Don't demo sheetrock the way they do on tv, with a sledgehammer. Carefully dismantle it instead. Same goes for plaster & lath.
Floor protection is hard to do well. This product http://www.ramboard.com/ seems like a great idea, but I havent' used it yet.
Don't force the new wall in too tightly. You CAN move old framing by forcing studs in.
Walls are full of pipes & wires. A plaster blade installed backwards in a sawzall is a good way to carefully cut plaster. Nothing wrong with a keyhole saw either.
Joists usually run from eave to eave, which means that bearing walls are usually parallel with the eaves. But not always.
If you will have door casing over 3" wide, add a block to the door framing for electrical switches.
16" on center is more important in new construction than in remodeling. Don't be afraid to cheat layout a bit if it makes something easier.
Edit--Alison Shroeder (Manugian) says hello--
Edited 4/5/2009 8:42 am ET by Mike_Maines
Don't demo sheetrock the way they do on tv, with a sledgehammer.
You got that right. And why do they insiust on smashing the cabinets? I gues it's all for show, but it sure is a waste of energy and good materials. Maybe instead of an article on framing, they could do an article on how to demo before framing."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I never could figure out why somebody would want to use a sledgehammer for SR or plaster
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
And have you ever noticed that they never hit a stud with that first big swing? Or plumbing or electrical?
That's the one where the 2# head bounces off and hits the camera man between the eyes, right?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I browsed through quickly and I don't think anyone mentioned this yet:
For remodel dust control, I've taped a furnace filter wrapped with a piece of shopvac drywall dust bag over the return vent.
Even if you put plastic over the return, there's still negative pressure behind it, trying to pull any spec of dust it can into the duct. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Hey Mike - I've tried out the RamBoard product on a couple of jobs so that I can educate myself before writing about it in T&M. So far it seems to be a pretty neat product. I mean, it's got it's drawbacks like anything else, but it seems to hold up really well under heavy traffic - and that's the main goal in my mind.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Good to know, Justin--
One of our crews is about to lay 5000sf of 15" white pine flooring, which will then get tromped over by electricians, tile guys, and everybody else. Seems to me that Ramboard would be perfect in that situation. What do you think?
if you just let everyone tromp all over it (dragging tools across it a pluss) then you can just tell the homeowner it's "antique" or "reclaimed" pine flooring and worth much more after the abuse.DC
LOL
Actually in the owners' previous house they laid their own pine floors and scattered beach sand everywhere for an "antique" finish. They were digging sand out of the gaps for years after that. They want a smooth finish on this one!
I would think that an excellent application for RamBoard, Mike. Of course, 1/8-in. masonite is always a fine choice, and it doesnt need to be cut to fit because it's so thin that sheets can be overlapped and taped, but I like that ramboard comes on a roll....I'm less nervous about carrying 16 rolls of ramboard through the house than I am about carrying the 160 sheets of masonite that you would need for that floor!
I've only used it on a couple smaller projects...see the attached pic of a temporary kitchen in the living room, but maybe your guys would be the ones to weigh in on it's merits after such a large job? The Ramboard adds show forklifts driving over it...
View Image
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I hear you on carrying 1/8" masonite through a finished house. Talk about floppy. Our SOP is rosin paper first, ideally taped together, with luann, masonite or thick cardboard on top of that.
If I can convince our guys to try the Ramboard I'll let you know how it works out.
Is the ramboard like a roll of corrugated cardboard?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
It's like a double or triple thick pizza box. Matbe a bit harde and some treatment for wearability?
Like Eric said...it's not corrugated, it's solid through. Like a really, really, thick piece of paper.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
The Ramboard adds show forklifts driving over it...
you could drive a forklift over any well set tile over slab job as long as the tile has a decent hardness rating.
all the cardboard would do is keep the tiles from getting scuffed.
That said ... the ramsboard does seem more economical on a larger job. I'm a fan of masonite. Handles the occasional minor tool drop. I've never covered any really large area ... but I lay a clean tarp down first ... then the masonite. I like the extra little padding the tarp adds ...
I'd still use a masonite walkway on traffic areas over top of the whole ramsboarded surface.
I do the same with the big rools of cardboard. On bigger jobs, cardboard covers everything ... tarps and masonite cover any traffic areas.
Any work doen over the cardboard gets at least a tarp ... and sometimes a temp sheet of masonite to work on too.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Okay, I'll chime in here. I haven't read through all the posts so it may have already been mentioned.
In old houses the studs are often of thicker dimensions, even up to a full 2" x 4". When demolishing walls it's best to save as many of those as you can, but cutting the nails at the top and bottom instead of cutting the wood. That way you can re-use them and keep the same wall thickness without having to fur out the smaller dimensioned (1-1/2" x 3-1/2") new studs.
Same holds true for floor joists, rafters, etc.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
Meet me at House & Builder!
Edited 4/13/2009 12:16 am by Ted W.
I want to thank those of you who've posted your insights and questions about remodeling interior walls. I have questions for each of the posts - and will reply to individual ones soon. But for now I just wanted to say thank you. And to ask that you and anyone else who has things to add or questions - please keep the posts coming.
Hope everyone's enjoying their weekend.
- Chris Ermides
Edited 4/5/2009 10:28 am ET by Cermides
Chris, you're an editor. Whats with the big lowes ad?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Hey Calvin,
To be honest, I don't know. They keep us editors separate from that sort of thing. We're all hunkered down in our own little world, developing content for the magazine and thinking about our readers. FHB editors are sort of like a framing crew that's been working together for a long time: we like to be left alone to do what we do - glad that the "suits" don't come around much, keep us employed, and that our only role is to keep building quality houses, not sell them.
I hope that makes some sense.
Chris
Adding interior walls....this happens to be something I do a lot of.I usually lay out the wall on the floor (both sides) with a chalk line then transfer the corners of to the ceiling using a laser plumb bob. Then plumb up the existing wall using a 72" level. Since it's rare to fall on existing framing, I usually cut out a few sections between the chaulk lines; say (4) 8"x3-5/8" holes in the wall and as many as necessary in the ceiling. The I slip in 2x4 blocks that are short enough to fit through the holes, spin, and fit between framing, held with some drywall screws. A temporary screw in the center of the block helps to pull tight to the back of the existing drywall while screwing.I most often build walls in occupied homes using just screws instead of working around an air compressor, hoses, and big framing gun. When I have the space I frame on the ground then stand up, usually I don't have the space though so I just toe-screw everything together. This requires a cordless drill with a tapered countersink bit and a cordless impact driver to drive the screws. Nothing fancy for screws, just 2-1/2" coarse thread drywall screws. Even though I toe-screw, I rarely custom cut (unless we're talking +1" difference or so) I usually just cut all the same, screw the bottom first, and manipulate the top plate to attach the upper screws. Then when I'm done, I drop shims in where necessary. In basements I usually use metal framing because of the inevitable variability of the floor and ceiling. Sometimes it is necessary to use just metal top an bottom track with wood studs...like when I put a cedar closet in a basement or areas around built-ins. As for dust protection. I usually use painter's tape to tape red rosin paper over cold air returns and air supplies. I also tape the paper to wood or tile floors under or around me. For carpet I use laundered white drop cloths and just deal with edge debris as it happens...oh, I have a Rigid toolbox vac nearby at all times and use it generously. I recommend this vac only because it is flat on top and can be used to sit or stand on; i.e. it is useful instead of just in the way when not in use. I use clear plastic sheeting held up by 3rd hands and staple or tape off the tops and hold the bottoms in place with 2x4's. Another tip is to move yourself, your garbage, and your material in and out through windows whenever possible. Double hung and slider windows are easiest, but casements can be disassembled too. I keep scraps of carpet to place upside-down over the sill for protection. On one of my more recent jobs, I had to build a 2x12 and plywood "bridge" over a roof from a dormer to a scaffold system as my means of access. Then just seal the interior door shut with tape.To remove drywall in large pieces, I "cut" it using drywall punchers that I learned about from FHB. Basically just old sawzall blades cut down to only move past the foot by 1/2". Easy to make and works great. I'm sure someone here knows the issue that the tip was published in.I hope this helps some.
Feel free to ask more detailed questions.BTW: I realize that your magazine is intended mostly for the DIY crowd and that they constitute your largest market share. But, the best advice to give to a DIYer is to just hire a professional. Maybe you could put that in the magazine sometime. As a pro remodeler I see a lot of pathetic DIY work when I open up walls, floors, and roofs. Then I gotta decide if I want to sound like a jerk because I have to add to my bill to fix someone else's mistakes. (gripe)DC
That's a great point. "Demolition" blades in the sawzall snips off all the nails. Much easier than pulling nails. Just be careful if you need to shorten the studs!