HOISTING KIT. CABINETS – Ways to do it
toolbear
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
HOISTING KIT. CABINETS – Ways to do it…
Folks,
What methods work for you in hoisting kitchen cabinets into position?
Make that – cheap yet effective methods.
I’ve seen the $450 rolling fixture, but lack the $450.
Just used a ledger board which worked fine – two little screw holes to patch and obviously a non-starter on a tiled wall.
Almost tried two crates over the bases. Might build some boxes for this.
The ToolBear
“Never met a man who couldn’t teach me something.” Anon.
Replies
Some one here reccomendend this technique and I have found it to work well:
A couple of 2x4s cut to the floor to cab dimension
screw them to studs under cab loca.
BUT
put the screws down below counter hieght so they don need to be patched.
I also got a couple of those adjustable jack posts to prop up the front whilst I get a screw in
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
that was my post a few months ago!!
just screw a couple of 1x2 to the wall vertically so that the tops are at 54 inches(or whatever)
screw them to the studs below the countertop final heightcaulking is not a piece of trim
Hey, that would work if the uppers went in first.
Could make up a few brackets sized to put the uppers at 54"@@@A couple of 2x4s cut to the floor to cab dimensionscrew them to studs under cab loca.BUTput the screws down below counter hieght so they don need to be patched.I also got a couple of those adjustable jack posts to prop up the front whilst I get a screw inThe ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I set the base cabs first, and formerly used a simple 2x4 stand and shims to fine tune each upper into position. Then I found jacks from Fastcap-littlehands. Here's how they work.
http://quittintime.infopop.cc/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tools&Number=8241&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,
Interesting post. Those look rather interesting. Never seen them in the flesh yet.
Was at their website last night.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00020JO9Q/qid=1103133757/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1_etk-tools/103-5275973-9401455?v=glance&s=hi&n=228013
I bought the kit, have not used it yet but think it is pretty good value. I got it when they had $25 off any $200 order. Have not got the short ones, may make some adapters. Looks like they would work well with the triangle jacks in another post.
I like to set the uppers first ... so I ledger most of them ...
my Dad likes to set the bases first ... so he uses a 24" wide sheet of 3/4 ply and has a coupla 2x boxes 18 3/4 high .... that he uses for each job ....
I'm picking up that gil-lift for the next full kitchen install .... $450 is way cheaper than a helper .... been thinking about it for long enough ....
Big Cal likes those helper hand things ....
Here's my tip for the ledger users .... for the corner cabs ... run a 45 deg diagonal across to hold the front lip. Always done it that way ... watched a co worker once fight and swear alot as the cab kept trying to drop and kill him ....
I grabbed a scrap 2x and went to the chop saw ... 2 45 deg cuts and 2 screws later ... he was impressed ... at his failure to somehow not think to ever do that!
It got better as I shoved a coupla shims in there ....
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Find the $450.00. Used mine today to lift 14 l.f. of 30'' high uppers in 1 lift after assembling on the floor. This is one of those tools you will wonder how you ever lived without.
I just hung my uppers and the lowers were already there. Since I had repaired and painted every plastered surface and added some drywall in the past few years, I have a crapload of plastic buckets. I started in the corner and arranged three buckets in a triangle, then set some 2x4's on top in a way that the corner cab would sit on them without falling. Then I shimmed it to height and levelled it. Once it was screwed in place, I did the rest of the cabs. Took about 45 minutes for 4 cabinets, with one an each side of the corner cab. I have the uppers 17" above the countertop, which isn't particularly standard, but it works for me since I'm about 6'-2". I made the uppers 28" tall and they don't go all the way to the ceiling since I can't reach the back of the top shelf, anyway. With a Lazy Susan in the bottom corner, I don't have a lot of wasted space.I did it that way because I don't do it for a living, although I plan on buying at least one more house that needs updating."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 12/10/2004 9:18 pm ET by highfigh
Joe,That's a lot of uppers. Must have weighed a tad bit.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
When we build the base cabinets we make them without the toe kicks. Same as wall cabs. Then we build a (leveling grid) with 1x4s.
We screw one on the walls and we build the (leveling grid-frame) from that one. It only takes 30 minutes for an entire kitchen but it pays for the rest of the day. With a perfect level base to start everything fits.
The base cab's, the counter top,the wall cab's follow the leveling grid. For the upper cab's we always use a ledger from 1x4 supported with vertical 1x4s from the already level base cab's.
The (Leveling grid) - base is ez to make and is even EZier to level. Instead using sims we hold small pieces 1x4s vertically inside the grid and screw it to the horizontal 1x4s. The idea is to start right. The rest is EZ.
YCF
@@ The base cab's, the counter top,the wall cab's follow the leveling grid. For the upper cab's we always use a ledger from 1x4 supported with vertical 1x4s from the already level base cab's. How do you attach this to the bases? Clamp to the sides comes to mind.
Humm. Got to take a look at the kitchen tomorrow.Ours are very stock kitchen cabinets with toe kicks.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
We just rest the boxes on the grid. The nice thing about this is that you can have a toekick recess at the bottom and at the sides.
With stock cabs we but the bottom cabs against a ledger 34 1/2 above the floor.
Is always faster to remove all doors and drawers and screw few boxes together on top and bottom.
We start with bottom's first in order to have a reference line for the tops. Vertically and horizontal.
YCF
Yc, I like your leveling style. I also have used the vertical same size pieces instead of installing a horizontal ledger. My thinking is that I've already gotthe base level....why ignore that fact?
Maybe I should start hacking off the toe kicks on prebuilt stuff?
If I ever build another cabinet, I'd use your method on the bases but I'd probably be custom ripping "joist" out of 1x4's instead of counting on screws. Naw...the screws and blocking will do fine...
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
....why ignore that fact? Blue, when you learn something wrong for a long time...the wrong becomes right. You know ...L VS R CS. (I'm not saying nothing )
Is like start framing on a foundation that you know is (out) and the more framing you do the more problems you and others have to face later.
Maybe I should start hacking off the toe kicks on prebuilt stuff?
If the construction of the boxes allows for hacking off...why not?
If I ever build another cabinet, I'd use your method on the bases
The most expensive Euro cabs come with adjustable legs. And is much EZier to build a box without a toekick. Wasted time and materials. And the ends look like hell. No room for your foot, no look and ...molding to cover the gap. And usually get dirty or damage by cleaning the floor.
YCF Dino
When I was installing factory made cabs I used two pieces of wood, preferably 2X4's, cut to 53 3/4". I leaned those against the wall sitting on shims. Never screwed them to the wall.
Lifted the cabinet up, set it on the two vertical boards, and kicked the boards towards the walls until my cabinet was on the 54" mark that I had made ahead of time.
I had already predrilled my holes for screws, had my drill handy and reached inside and put a screw in it.
Never seen to many factory cabs that I couldn't lift by myself and hold there until I got at least one screw in so that I could exhale and screw the rest of it off.
I could never see the need to have any kind of mechanism to hold the cabs, they aren't all that heavy. Of course I'm talking about factory cabs.
We do all custom cabinetry now and some of those are tough for two men. With a cleat on the wall though all you have to do is lift it up and set it on that, then screw it off.
We build our cabs with a 3 1/2" cleat at the top of the cabs, back side of course, then when you install you mark where your cabinet tops will be and put a cleat 3 1/2" down from that mark. Hang the boxes on that, plumb and level, then screw it off.
Doug
If you go to the Fast Cap website (Fastcap.com) you will find the THIRD HAND and LITTLE HAND. I have used both of these many times with great ease and success. They even have a JACK that lifts and holds the front of a base cabinet while your shimming. THey have lots of neat tools that I whish I'd invented.
I did have to cut down the THIRD HAND because it was too tall to be used under standard base cabinets.
Good Luck
All the miles of cabs I've installed I always found that the best way to do it is to do the uppers first so nothing is in your way (base cabs).
I "always" run 1x4's around the whole room area that the cabs go on using my laser level and double check that with my 6' Stabila.
I then pre drill the holes in the cabs where the Piffinscrews go and theyre up in a matter of a cpl of hours.
Be well hung...lol
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I always set the wall cabinets first. I use a homemade cabinet jack made from scrap 2x4's and 1x4's. I t consists of a triangle that is about 12 inches along the top and about 24 inches along the back with an angle brace on either side to hold it together. The 24 inch section rests against the wall and then another 2x4 or 1x4 is used as a kicker to raise the triangle up and down the wall. If you make the triangle part from 3/4 stock then make the kicker the same length as the height off the floor and it works just right. Once the first wall cabinet is installed I clamp a small block to the bottom of that cabinet so that it extends under where the next cabinet will be, position my jack near the other end and just set the box up there. It'll stay there by itself untill I get it screwed to the wall.
I will try to attach a crude sketch:
i have very limited experience in this area but have had good luck using biscuits for alignment 'cheaters'. two or three down the front edge and a couple across the bottom (make sure the slots don't hit any hidden hardware, screws, etc). i used swollen ones with no glue. when they mate up it only takes one quik-clamp to hold it up while you screw it to the wall and its neighbor. works pretty good when you're shorthanded or don't do enough installs to pay for the fancy specialized alignment clamps.
m
@@ i have very limited experience in this area but have had good luck using biscuits for alignment 'cheaters'. Mitch,Interesting idea. Never thought of biscuits to hold the cabs on layout.Might be able to justify that biscuit joiner <g>. I need it to undercut jambs on a tile job. I've tried the little saws. Sux. No speed to mention. Now, if I could use it to biscuit stuff...The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I do most cabinet installs solo.
Made a box just short of 18" tall that holds all my tools/ shims/ screws/ etc.
After setting bases set 2 straight 2x4's on them, set the box on the bases then slide it along setting the walls on the box and shimming as needed.
Works great for me and complains much less then an over caffinated helper.
Never thought of biscuits to hold the cabs on layout.
It's a good technique. Spotting them is the pain. You do not want to hit hinge screws, and you do not want to put the bisquit where you are going to put the face frame connecting screw, either (wet glue & biscuit chunks are a paint to get off the drill bit . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
@@ Wall bracketsDoug,Any problem with the prop stick staying put on the floor? Have visions of getting a rack of uppers on it to have the stick head west.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I only lift one cabinet at a time on to the jack. If you have the angle right it will stay put. Try to cut the prop stick so that it is under the front edge of the cabinet when it is at the right height. Back when I was younger I had a jack made from a VW jack that would lift
3 or 4 wall cabinets at once. I'm not sure that I could even get 4 wall cabinets up onto that old jack nowadays without hurting myself :)These wall "brackets" really do work great. And they're free!!!
HOISTING CABINETS - reprise
Folks,
Thanks for the many ideas on how to hoist kitchen cabinets. Breaktime is a great resource. We will incorporate them in the next kitchen install.
Our crew has debated the uppers first or second. As this was a Habitat job, we think uppers second makes sense for the situation (confused). On this job I was handed a cabinet layout for a kitchen we did two years back. There was some resemblance to the current kitchen. Both had sinks, stoves, ice boxes, etc. Pantry? No.
For reasons like that, and the use of DIY Some Assembly Required flat pack cabinets of the finest particle board and photo papers, we feel more comfy getting the bases on layout to see just what we have going, then use them to layout the uppers.
We did learn that the volunteers doing the DIYing need an assembly table with a right triangle to set the stuff square - and we need to do QC checks. We were having some layout issues when a dim lighbulb went on.
Grab framing square. All the bloody boxes were racked. Not a right triangle in the lot. Even better, one had the base wider than the top (factory QC)
We ledgered this job - screwed to the wall, but want to try a set of fixtures that will quick clamp to the sides of the bases with cleats to set the correct height.
I set a pair of 2x3s over the bases, then a 3/4 ply work top and assembled the uppers on that. I can see where a couple of sized boxes (which can also hold the gear) sitting on this would make installing uppers much easier. I checked it for flat - it was. The floor has a hump and an incline, so I like ganging uppers on a known flat surface at a comfy height.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Hang your walls first with a kick-stick: An angled 1x3 which holds the cabinet against the wall,adjust height by kicking it,or gently backing it out. Base cabinets last. We average 20 kitchens/wk.haven't lost one yet.
Check out my improved kicker stick further up in this thread. It really does work. We do commercial cabinets but at probably about the same pace. Uppers first - always faster.With my kicker you can bend down and pick up the screw you just dropped with no fear of the cabinet falling on your head.
Can you coach me through posting an illustration here? Thanks.
Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
Sorry, I haven't been on this forum much in the last month. I'm sure that others on here are much more computer savy than me but here's how I got my drawing on here:I used the paint program that comes with windows to draw my cabinet jack illustration. Then, when I saved the file I scrolled down to save it as a jpeg instead of the default bitmap. Now it can be attached to your post just like any other picture.
KICK STICKSI envision this stuffed into the top back corner. Is that right? About how long do you make them?
Bevel on the base?
Don't skid?The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Hey, 'bear:
I don't know how to illustrate in this format,however:
Kick stick notches into front rail
Sets in at a very mild angle( 5degrees from plumb), so most of force is up rather than in
Cut parallel to floor
This is non-skid on sub-floor or underlayment. If working on finished floor, I use a non-skid pad -corrugated cardboard works fine.
I have a stick for each cabinet size- my "golf clubs"
Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
I'll mention this just because I've seen "experienced" installers not doing it ...
and scratched my head ...
anyways ... first thing I do is remove the doors and take out the shelves.
Gives more access/working room ... plus ... really lightens the load.
Everyone here probably already does that .... but ... maybe a litle light bulb just went off somewhere. I've seen more than one guy get smacked in the face with an errant door ...
OK .. here's another one we all know .... the FF's overlap by 1/8th per cab ... so ... butted tight together we now have a 1/4" gap between the sides .... so ... in the back corner .... stick in a shim to 1/4" and drive a screw across the two sides ...
If the cab's have any weight to them ... I flip it upside down and add one more at the bottom/back .... now .... ya got one solid box ... even if it's 4 or 6 boxes screwed together ....
Makes for easier lifting .... no racking or twisting.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
ok .. one more ... the double back screw ...
FF's with crown ... not tight to the ceiling ....
drill holes thru the top of the FF .... about every 12 inches ....
reach up and over ... hold the crown ...and screw it on ... with drywall screws ...
yes ... drywall screws .... 1 1/4 usually work if you hit high enough on the crown and don't drive it so tight it countersinks itself ...
or ... countersink on purpose ... and run in some one inchers ....
double backscrewing makes for nice easy adjustment up or down as need be ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I like to use metal cleats or Z-clips. Lay them out on the wall, attach mate to cabinet back, hoist once, and perfection. The Z-clips only protrude 3/16, which you may need to plumb cabinets anyways. The cleats protrude about 1/2.
Some folks rip their own wood cleats using 1xs with mating angles. An advantage with wood cleats is that you can layout the wall cleat using a single long piece.
Z-Clips:
View Image
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Steel cleats:
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http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=10231