Hello. Looking for some unbiased feedback and/or opinions on a few of the home design software titles available and whether or not they output working drawings for actual building & construction purposes.
My wife and I are considering building a custom home in the very near future and we are at the point where accurate estimates cannot be obtained from trade contractors without blueprints.
We do not require architectural services as the plan is one of our own design and has been tweeked and re-tweeked for roughly ten years (began as a dream home project for a drafting course I took in my senior year of high school). A draftsperson may be able to do the job but I prefer as much hands-on as possible.
Chief Architect 10 is one we have investigated but it just isn’t cost effective for only a single design. Has anyone ever used Home Designer Pro 7.0 released by Chief Architect in conjunction with Better Homes & Gardens? Or Architectural Series 4000 by Punch! Software? Both boast advanced roofing, framing, and foundation tools but do they determine beam, header, and footing sizes that consider the load and span tolerances?
Replies
Do you need 3D drawings? If yes, then don't waste your time on the cheap programs. SoftPlan and Chief, full versions of both, are good, and expensive.
If you only need 2D drawings, there are lots to choose from. AutoSketch from AutoCad is about $130.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
At this point in time, even the more expensive CAD programs don't do engineering. That isa separate kind of software and you have to know what you are doing to run it and input the right information. The CAD software still needs a human driving it. Like a saw or hammer, you have to tell it where to cut or which nail to hit. It's a tool.
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I recently bought Punch Super Home Suite. Complete waste on money - it can't even draw a foundation. So I'm still looking, I suspect that the BH&G "Pro" software is the cheapest that is worth buying - anything less is for dreamers, not builders. Check out the reviews at on-line book sellers like Amazon - they can be quite informative. Good luck,
Martyn
We designed our own house also. We used a cheapo software (might have been the H&G one you mentioned) to get the design down. Tweaked wall lengths and room size, got a 3-d rendering that we could "walk" through. It was very helpful to do it that way, but no structural stuff.
Once we got to the point you are, we bought Autocad--which is expensive, but cheaper than a draftsperson. If you do a search you'll find some cheaper options for cad software. Then we had to draw the house line by painstaking line. We were so grateful we had all the dimenesions down, because changing something "simple" like a wall dimension in cad is very painful. We got books on how to design and build a house to help figure out structural things, used manufacturer's load-bearing tables and the like to figure out what spans we could manage. The local lumberyard did the joist and truss design. We did have our builder selected at this point, and they were wonderful about answering our questions.
Be warned, this is VERY time consuming. We didn't feel like we could turn our "baby" over to someone else to draw up, and we're glad we didn't, because we made so many minor revisions along the way that we would have paid a draftsperson 5 times over. However, my dh is also a computer geek, and enjoyed the challenge of learning how to use Autocad. You might not be the same.
One big benefit of using a cad program is that lots of other people use it too, so once we had drawings we could e-mail them to our builder, foundation person (Superior Walls), HVAC sub, etc.
One painful lesson we learned--make sure you leave enough room for ductwork chases and plumbing vents. They take up more space than you think. Deeper joists are good because they allow more room for the plumbing!
Good luck,
Jo
The prpoblem you ran into with the difficulties of ACAD is that it is not set up to bea Caomputer aided DESIGN program. It is simply a computer aided DRAFTING program. It has powerfu8l tools but no architectural pilot to drive that big engine. so you were limited by the imensityu of the program andthe insignificance of your skills to simply drawing lines, which could have been done as welll with paper and pencil and erasure. Not said to beat you up but to point out that programs designed for this sort of thing are considerably easier because they are object based. Softplan, Chief, and vectorworks use objects - say a wall, a window, a door, a floor system...that has certain attributes and ways that it connects to other objects in the model so that when you change one, all the other associations automaticly change.Tons of time can be saved that way - but you still need to learn to use whatever tool is on your table.
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I totally agree. One of the reasons we went with Autocad though, was that it had more applications for us after the homebuilding. My dh likes to do woodworking in his "spare" time, so he thought this would be more useful for designing projects in the future. And really, he wanted to learn how to use it.Does something like Chief Architect allow you to do the structural aspects as well as the pretty 3-d? Print out specs on the pages? We couldn't get any specific info about that and didn't want to plunk down all that money to find out that it wasn't any better than the $70 software we already had. I think that's something the OP was trying to find out also. I don't mean that it would calculate the loads and all, but just allow you to draw in the joists, plumbing, HVAC, etc.Jo
I don't know about Chief, but with Softplan, I can do just about anything -
Sizing beams any way I want.
Custom design of trusses.
create different walls or windows.cabinets and woodwork are a weak point though, because it is a builder's prohgram rather than a woodworkers program.SP in it's latest version does have the span tables included for joists, but beams are a while 'nuther area of engineering that requires anyother different five hundred dollar program and specialized knowledge to use and design with. I expect that there would be potential liability issues with trying to include it in some CAD packages.
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90% of the structural questions can be answered by looking them up in your state building code
as for ACAD being helpful in other respects ????
yeah, so ?
so is a drafting board
sounds like you should stick to S,C or V or look into SketchupMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
If you are really looking for apples to apples bidding, you could possible do your own drawings on an inexpensive CAD program and export the drawings to a local designer or architect for a review (probably a small fee), assuring complete info.
You may also want to do a spec sheet, which hold all bidders to the details which are sometimes unavaliable in the best sets of drawings. It informs bidders on what their respnsibilies are, and what other trades are doing so thast they can address intregal issues.
The problem these suggestions address is in-complete info, or leaving room for speculation, assumption and sub-contractor design which could vary from sub to sub.
Bids can be confusing and not easily comparable without phone calls etc. Having these things in the plan and / or spec sheet and a part of the bid package can eliminate these problems and better provide apples to apples bidding.
If you want some help with a spec sheet, email me and I can send you an example of what we have found to be effective. [email protected] Many items in our sheet may not apply in your area, but you can get an idea of what you should include.
First off, welcome to BT (you've picked a medium "hot button" issue--or three--to start off with <g>).
I'm (pleasantly) surprised no one has yet recommended that you troll the archives using the Search function. I'm not sure it would help, but it is a topic "we" have hashed out more than a bit.
(Oh, yeah, click on your own name in blue, or on the "update profile" right up there, yeah, right there, top center of the screen--some location info can help us help you--sometimes.)
some unbiased feedback and/or opinions on a few of the home design software titles available and whether or not they output working drawings for actual building & construction purposes.
Now, I'm not sure "unbiased" is something you're likely to find here <g>.
Now, I have to jump in and suggest that you do require architectural services--just maybe not "traditional" services. What you may need is the services of a Design-Build firm that works in residential. The fact that you are looking for software to generate technical information like span tables, header sizes, & the like, just waves a red flag at me (and I've got a bunch of experience, good, bad, & horrible, in custom DB home projects).
"We" (the 'experts' here--the anonymous voices from over the internet) have a wide-ranging level of experience, which can be very helpful. It can also be contradictory, too--Georgia slab-on-grade is different than Minnesota "needs a deeeeeep basement", just in starting presumptions.
Now, the other reason I have to (not quite) rain on your parade, is that I'm way too familiar with the intrusions of Building departments & the like. Just to have some one with experience guiding a project through the maze of indifferent clerks, and occasionally-cranky plan reviewers, can be worth the cost of a professional. Now, how "much" professional you need will vary based on the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) you have to build "to." That can range from a lot to a very little amount of interference; which can equate to a lot, or a little expense in "buying" the stamps & seals your plans may need.
The other thing you need to know is where you will print your plans. While house plans will often fit nicely on, say 18 x 24, that's still an expensive plotter to buy (reconditioned will be about $900)--and can be even more expensive to 'rent,' too. Which can be even worse if your AHJ requires all submitted drawings to be 24 x 26 . . .
Tell us more, we can help more.
As far as printing, many print shops (even Kinkos) will print large output. Price is usually per sq. ft., based on the size of the print. Just find out what file types they can print, and make sure your CAD program will produce one or two of them. pdf almost never fails.
I've noticed something else about these people having to design their own home.
And I'm sorry if I make somebody feel bad, but I've never directly said it to anybody, nor will I.
Some of these self designed creatures look like some kid designed them. Oh they're happy with this feature or that configuration and are just so proud, but the whole either looks silly or has unnecessary cost built in.
For instance, notice the extremely complicated roofs resulting from seemingly added on spaces without overall focus. Or godawfully steeped gables, mis-scaled proportions, as well as materials.
Or else it's, "how can it be done cheeper?"
Although I just bought Chief Architect and plan on doing my own also, I would never build a house without bringing in an experienced designer also. The trained perspective and connection with trends, styles, etc. not only is valuable, but time saving.
Just to be the Luddite here... nothing wrong with a good ole drafting rule and some squares! The learning curve is pretty high on CAD, especially for one home. Solves the "how to print it" question as well! And this from an IT guy...
My vote is for Chief Architect. If you want to try it you can get an evaluation package sent to you. It is for the most part fully functional but somethings are disabled (you know so you have to buy it to print,etc..) but it is quite complete. There latest release is version 10. They also offer training videos, online and phone support.
I've got the Punch "Professional" version. I was not thrilled with it at all. I did a little design for a back yard patio/driveway area and it took me longer to set it up than if I had drawn by hand. The big advantage was the 3D "walk thru feature". I had a smaller, cheaper version previously and that was really useless. Actually, I was warned by a buddy before I started, but I bought the program anyway.
I have done a few whole house redesigns as well as smaller projects. The more time I spend doing design, the more I appreciate the skill and experience that a trained professional brings to the table. Scale, symmetry and cohesive design are not skills that are inate. Architects go to school for a long time to learn some of that. Code compliance is a whole 'nother story. If one thing is messed up (who mentioned space for the vents?) that becomes a nightmare - maybe a very expensive nightmare.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Even though a earlier post bemoaned punches software, I have it and like it. the foundation thing is a little annoying but I find that the interface is pretty easy. I did my house from a builders stock plan and made all my changes on this software to see if I liked them.
With that being said, With my personal experience I would do it differently the next time. I would design the house that I wanted then give all my material over to a archetectural/engineering firm to calculate estimate and to obsess over every little detail, I would have saved myself so many sleepless nights, and could have avoided nearly having to file a lawsuit against my builder supply yard who "engineered" my I-joist roof framing. but then again that JMHO....
I designed an addition to my home on Chief Architect. We are just finishing up the project now. It turned out well, but there were some things we missed in the design. We were lucky to have a great GC and foreman that could think on their feet and anticpate problems. If I had to do it over again I would likely turn my design over to an architect and get more detailed construction drawings done, along with better specs.
Piffen is correct. The object based 3D programs are great for design as they allow fast changes that carry through from the floor plans to the elevations to the 3D views.
Anyways here are some before and after photos of the project and some Chief Architect drawings.
http://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/41957297-M.jpg http://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/33633713-M.jpg http://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/31085011-M.jpg http://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/57115272-M.jpg
If you have any questions specific to Chief Architect let me know. I was a CADD drafter in previous career, so I had no problem learning the software. Most of it is straight forward, but their are a few quirks that can be a challenge.
mike, is this the addition side ?
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,That photo is the rear of the house BEFORE the addition. The plans I posted are oriented with the rear of the house at the top.We put a 2 Story addition to fill the missing corner of the house. You might notice the rear entry door is near grade, while the windows beside are much higher. The Mud Room is just above grade, about 3 steps below the first floor level. This was done to allow view from the Kitchen to the rear yard. Since the Mud Room is sunk you can look right over it out to the rear yard. Also the rear of the home faces the South, and we wanted the Sun light in the Kitchen.http://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/57115188-S.jpgNotice the original set of arched DH windows in the BEFORE photo. We saved them and moved them to the side of the house in what will be the Family Roomhttp://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/57115198-S.jpgThis is a shingle style house that was aluminum sided over. We removed the aluminum and scraped off most of the paint. The shingles on the front were in great shape since it is the North side and receives little sun. The shingles on the back were too damaged to save, so they were removed. Here is a photo of the front that has been repainted (except for the windows).http://BigDog.smugmug.com/photos/13592305-S.jpg