I am in the slow season and have a few hit or miss jobs I need some good workers. OK some workers that will show up. ON time? more than one day in a row. that can speak some English (just a little Please). maybe even have there own car, or is this to much to hope for.
I am in my slow months as are some of you. I can not commit to a new employee with hit or miss work load. I f it is really slow I will do all the work myself. and take three times as long. Money to feed the hungry Business machine.
BUT I keep finding jobs that will require 2-5 “guys” and cant find anyone who wants cash money for a few days.
Am I the only one in MICHIGAN who wants to work?
Replies
Mick,
A few more days like today, and I'll be cancelling the Florida Sabbatical and heading home to the frozen north. Sorry I'm not there right now.
Jeremy
Face the facs.
Occasional and Good are not synonomous
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
to do what kind of work?
I use "Labor Ready" for laborers.
I've worked around guys they consider "carpenter level" ... and wouldn't pay extra for the same skills but with a worse attitude.
Other than that ... right now the lady I'm working for is paying my buddy's helper to scrub and rewax her hardwood floors .... my buddy is slow at the moment ... he's happy to not have to lay the kid off or risk taking a bad job just to keet them both busy ... the kid is happy to have somewhere to go for a coupa weeks ...
I've already found him more work there I don't wanna do.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
If you need mostly unskilled labor you might try a temporary labor service. I've had some success going this route. Usually have to go through quite a few guys before finding one that has common sense and wants to work. The good workers usually find permenant work fairly quickly though so it can be difficult to get the same ones to come back.
give up the english part oh and the "drive'n" part and i'm sure ur area like most around the country has a supply of hispanic guys who want to work... this time of year when no landscaping is going on... u need to park far away so as not to have 20 climb into the back of your truck... sometimes you can get the same guy or guys 2 days in a row... sometimes not... but most are hard working, try to watch what you're doing and actually try to help... sometimes you just need an extra set of hands to hold or carry something...
think if you at 19 years old would leave your country, go somewhere where you know no one and don't speak english and are willing to stand on a corner hope'n to get work? most of these kids deserve more respect than we give em... I'm sure it wasn't but a few generations back when alot of our great great great grandfathers did the same thing...
oh... and for labor ready... i've seen about 70% that were crackheads
pony
Pony, I respect the work ethic of most of the Hispanix that I see around here too.
They need to learn proper English if they really want to get ahead though. Of course, we have a lot of Ebonic speakers that need to learn English if they want to get ahead too!
I can't understand why/how people don't understand that their lack of ability to communicate hurts them so significantly in the pocketbook. I have two guys born and raised in the affluent suburbs that talk like they have ten marbles in their mouths. It definintly holds them back...most times when the talk to me, I just nod and smile if theyre smiling.
I know I'm going deaf, but I hear most everyone else just fine....
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I guess everything is a trade off... most of the hispanic guys i've dealt with are really try'n to learn english one of the guys who helps me some asks the name of everything... another takes a tape measure home and measures everything just to learn... (does the same thing on the job) first guy has one of those franklin english to spanish deals... I do know this... seems the more english they learn the less they want to work...
I've never had a hispanic guy steal from me (as far as i know)
thats 10 points right there
pony
one of the guys who helps me some asks the name of everything...
One of the guys who helps me tells me the Spanish name of everything. I'm learning Spanish at about the same rate he's learning English. I'm trying to learn good cursing right now.
I've never had a hispanic guy steal from me (as far as i know)
I have two Hispanics that work with me everyday. They're two of the finest fellows I've ever met in my life. On the first job they worked on for me, the general contractor called me and told me they left for lunch with his wheelbarrow in the back of their truck. He wanted me to buy him a new one and get rid of "los guys". When they came back, it had a new handle on it. Seems they borrowed it and the handle broke. Since then, he's been trying to get them to work for him.Just because you should, doesn't mean you can!
mick... you've got to decide.. how is your business going to function.. are you going to be a one-man band ?
are you going to sub everything?
are you going to have employees?
it sounds like you are NOT going to be a one-man band..
so what you need is some continuity.. would YOU work on a part-time basis for someone who only calls when they need you ?
if you go the sub route.. you need reliable subs... how do you get and keep them ?
work (jobs )...money...management style.. so they WANT to work for you instead of joe-blow (no offense, joe )
if you want the employees.. how do you get and keep them ?
work (jobs )...money...management style.. so they WANT to work for you instead of joe-blow (no offense, joe )..
you face the same dilemma all of us do... getting work ... and getting it done..
i chose the employee route... i've had 5-6..... and 1... and usually 2....
in the summer i can pick up 1 or 2 more for about 8 weeks... (one sub.... one employee )
employees give me freedom to go after the jobs i want.... the freedom to sit here and bullsh*t with you... the freedom to take a vacation
employees shackle me to my work... i have to have the work to keep us all busy.. i have to meet the payroll every week... i have to manage my employees and keep their development and satisfaction moving along..
i have to get rid of the ones who are not working out... i have to figure out how to hold onto the ones that i need, and if they leave.....i have to recruit new ones to take their place
if you are doing semi-skilled work.. you can take the chance with "labor ready" wether it's with a job service (better & legal).... or off the street corner in the barrio ( who knows.. and how legal )
you have to develop a business plan ... and a huge part of that is your LABOR pool.
stop and think about where you are and where you're going... if you're 30.... you will probably be doing this for the next 30 years... why not figure it out now ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
John Carrol(sp?) in his Working Alone book mentions a 3rd route."Sharing the work". Having several similar minded contractors that you can trade work with as needed.Now his examples where things like installing windows.Would not work with with task requiring unskilled labor.
Thats pretty much what I'm doing right now.
I know several other carpenters/contractors that will give me a hand when I need it, and the same when they need help.
Sometimes money exchanges hands, but we're just as likely to swap time.
I know a little spanish... and i'm not being rude or disrespectful... i just refuse to use it... i think it's unfair to me and them... now if i was in mexico working for them i'd try my best to use spanish.... but ....
and... I always pay my guys more than they "earned" they all keep their own hours i just ask em how many at the end of the week... and i always add a few if tey are work'n everytime i see em... if i need more help i'll tell them to bring an extra guy with em in the morning...
oh and if ur pick'n em up on the side of the road a few tips
get the smallest guy there... he'll usually work like a burro
get ones who don't speak english
get young ones or old ones... stay away from the fat ones
if the first thing they say is "how much you pay" skip that one
if it's early am always stop & spend a few $$ at McDonalds alot of em might not have eaten
pony
I know a little spanish... and i'm not being rude or disrespectful... i just refuse to use it... i think it's unfair to me and them... now if i was in mexico working for them i'd try my best to use spanish.... but ....
I agree in principal, but if you were trying to make a living in a foreign country and the guy you were working for tried to meet you half way ( or maybe just part of the way ) wouldn't you feel a little better about the situation. I've also seen that as I learn a few more Spanish words and use them, "los guys" try to use more English words to communicate with me. It's turning into "Spanglish", but I also understand "Ebonics" better than I really want to.Just because you should, doesn't mean you can!
dude i'm in memphis... i thought ebonics was english
My son's been going to school in Memphis for the last four years. Cool city.Scissors cut paper. Rock breaks scissors. Paper wraps rock.
yes Memphis can be cool... the politics suck here, property taxes are more than my notes, but no state income tax... and we have the river, music, some of the best beachs in the world are 7-8hrs away... new orleans by train is $40... we have killer fishing/hunting and lakes within an hours drive... i have a lakehouse thats 30min from the mississippi river (tn/arkansas) bridge that might as well be a thousand miles away once you are there.... we have 4 seasons (the cold one is short i was fish'n new years day from my pier)....
thanks, and thanks for remind'n me it ain't so bad here...
pony
Blue,I used Labor Ready last year and they sent me a guy I guess he spoke ebonics or whatever that made up ridiculous language is and he got in my truck and said "yo...yo...yo...yo...yo...yo...word......up......dog". I thought I was hearing things. I couldn't understand anything he was saying he sounded like his tongue was a foot long and he was chewing on it. When I would show him what to do he would say " word....word...word...up". He was gone shortly.Joe Carola
Great story Joe!
The thing that amazes me about those characters, is that they wonder why they aren't getting anywhere. They don't make any attempt to fit in with the older guys that might actually show them and help them...they don't even speak the same dialect.
They desparately need a decent job, but they won't make any effort whatsoever to actually keep one...like haircuts, clean clothes, decent language, etc.
I probably would have sent the guy packing at the third Yo!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue Eyed Devil,
It's not as simple as learning to speak as you do, getting a hair cut and buying decent clothes..
In a sense society has abandoned them, maybe they weren't the britest bulb in school maybe even in school they couldn't find a way to fit in.. I won't make excuses for them simply tell you that everybody seeks friends and if your friends get baggy stupid pants you tend to buy them to fit in.. If your firends try to talk in a slang or code to exclude those they percieve as a threat to them you tend to do the same thing.. I don't know at what point in their lives they wise up and conform but sooner or later we all tend to...
Maybe they need to be beat up by life so badly that there is no other choice, maybe they do it sooner but a little understanding of them and their position might make the connection so that you could be that persons mentor. You can show they way.. Don't expect gratitude, don't expect an instant overnight change.
The result will be another productive citizen to help carry the tax burden..
Maybe they need to be beat up by life so badly that there is no other choice, maybe they do it sooner but a little understanding of them and their position might make the connection so that you could be that persons mentor.
Frenchy, you are right...unfortunatly, I've burned out all my energy mentoring the people that are two steps above them.
I guess there's a place to beebob and a place to build houses. If you beebop up to my job...you aint gonna build no houses with me.
I love Hazlett's response..."go home, get a belt and come back and fillout the application". I'm going to remember that one. The next time a guy walks up scruffy, smoking, filthy clothes, etc, I'm going to tell him to go home, clean up his act and come back looking like he's serious about getting some employment.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Joe,
I have had NUMEROUS guys show up wanting to fill out a job application for a job I had advertised.
These guys are sporting the current fashion where their pants are hanging down to their knees---and they can't take 3 steps with out having to hitch their pants up.
I tell 'em all----" look,---you seem like you could be a hard worker. Tell ya what------go home and PUT ON A BELT. Come back here looking like you could start work today---and I will be HAPPY to have you fill out a job application. If you need one hand to keep your pants up---and one hand to navigate the ladder---how you gonna carry shingles up to us on the roof?????"
They NEVER come back.
I guess I am not culturally sensitive enough for today's youth. I will be happy to teach you a lot-----but I shouldn't have to teach a 20 year old to wear a belt on his pants.
Stephen
Stephen,
I'd never come back to you after that! why should I ? You've just displayed an intolerance and I don't like working with intolerant people..
Try another approach.. Realize that as a kid you were young and dumb and wore the currant hair style and etc.. when I was young I wore a duck tail hair cut with skin tight pants.. my hair was constantly falling in my eyes.. the pants would split (too often because I liked to show off my er.... manhood..
I think my appraoch would be to get some rope and toss the guy a length and say sure I'll try you but you'll need to be able to keep those pants on without pulling them up all the time I want to hire both of your hands. use this and tomorrow when you come back bring working pants along, OK?
Frenchy,
I love ya man--- I often agree with you wholeheatedly-----but you are occasionally so full of shi& I can smell it all the way over here!!!!
LOL
you are a salesman-----but unless I am very much mistaken---you are not really an employer. Soooo---you are operating from the theoretical.
On the other hand---people who have to deal with this type of labor DAILEY---are gonna have a different approach-----
now---there are plenty , plenty, PLENTY of things I am MORE than willing to teach a new hire-----and If you asked any OTHER employer here---I bet they tell you the same thing.
However---I am in business to make a dollar. There is no freakin way I should EVER have to teach a 20 year old man how to keep his pants up---he should have learned that by age 3 at the latest.
and if a 20 year old mall -goth, or a wigger, or a genuine gang banger doesn't TOLERATE an instruction to wear a belt 'cause he needs 2 hands available in this trade----------
then he certainly ain't gonna TOLERATE my instructions about HOW I want those ladders footed, WHERE I want those materials stacked, WHEN I want him to show up for work, and WHY I want those roofjacks nailed in a certain way.
He might as well learn from the get go that there ARE conditions to his employment---and keeping his pants up around his waist is hardly an onerous burden. If he isn't willing to wear a belt---then I am better off weeding him out FAST.
On the other hand---young Mr. Pants around his knees just missed an opportunity to demonstrate a willingness and ability to learn. Hardly MY fault.
Really Frenchy---I love almost every thing you write man, but sometimes you come out with some stupid shi& that makes the rest of us liberals look bad. LOL
Best wishes to ya,
Stephen
You have the power to hire or not as you see fit (and yes I've hired many people) my appraoch is differant because I came from a differant culture..
My first job with a farmer I wore all my nice new clothes (wanted to look good), he took one look at me and said thank you, no. Since I really needed the job I asked him (trust me, it took a lot of courage) why not? he told me I didn't look like I could handle the job and turned his back to pay attention to the others and assign them their tasks.. I stood there and when he was finished I said, "you didn't tell me what I need to do to prove myself to you"..
He gave one exasperated look at me,... (I was a skinny little runt of a kid who looked 8 instead of 12) he shook his head and said come back tomorrow looking ready to work..
I did and that summer I learned a lot about Farming and even more about how to work hard for 14 hours a day.. I was the youngest skinnest and smallest guy he had but I worked as hard as anyone (that was the final condition he placed on hiring me)
My appraoch requires nothing more than a chunk of rope..
Maybe you already get more people than you need and you can afford to be choosy, in that case then you sure don't need to change.. maybe you're tired of the feeling you get when someone you took a chance on works out well.. Then don't expend the effort..
I come from a liberal state, here in Minnesota we tend to be generous and in return our state enjoys one of the most stable economies. I realize that's not the only way to be and since it's a free nation you can do as you see fit..
frenchy...
<<<< He gave one exasperated look at me,... (I was a skinny little runt of a kid who looked 8 instead of 12) he shook his head and said come back tomorrow looking ready to work..
I did and that summer I learned a lot about Farming and even more about how to work hard for 14 hours a day.. I was the youngest skinnest and smallest guy he had but I worked as hard as anyone (that was the final condition he placed on hiring me>>>
IE: farmer brown gave you the same opportunity that stephen gave "big pants"...
except... you had to stand there and humbleyourself before him until he told you what the basic requirement was..
in Stephen's case... stephen didn't make the kid grovel.. he volunteered the conditions..
you took Farmer Brown up on his challenge.. " mr big pants" never came back for a second bite of the appleMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"I guess I am not culturally sensitive enough for today's youth. I will be happy to teach you a lot-----but I shouldn't have to teach a 20 year old to wear a belt on his pants."
The guy I was talking about was 29 years old and was born and raised in New Jersey so whatever ridiculous language he was talking was his own. He was dressed with his pants hanging down and the bottoms dragging on the ground and he also wore some tight nylon looking thing on his head and wanted a cigarette every 5 minutes and walked dragging his feet and worked as slow as a turtle and when I explained something to him his eyes would wander off and if I asked if he understood he would say "yo, yo, word, word....... bla...bla.....bla....bla.... and then 2 minutes later he asked me how to do it again.
This guy didn't care about learning he just cared about gettting a days pay and that's it. I don't have time to teach a 29 year old who was born and raised here to speak English or pronounce the words the right way sayiing yo....yo...word....up...........dog. That's all bullsh!t to me and I agree with everything you said.
Joe Carola
Edited 1/24/2005 1:00 pm ET by Framer
Edited 1/24/2005 1:01 pm ET by Framer
It's OK for you to abandon your role as a mentor, there is no law that forces you to do so and it's understandable given the difficulty you would simply be another person who abandons that person..
If your priority don't include turning people like that into useful citizens and he clearly hasn't yet, then I guess it's OK for you to let somebody else handle the job..
It does however weaken any tirade you may have about those who fall back on welfare..
It's OK for you to abandon your role as a mentor, there is no law that forces you to do so and it's understandable given the difficulty you would simply be another person who abandons that person..
If your priority don't include turning people like that into useful citizens and he clearly hasn't yet, then I guess it's OK for you to let somebody else handle the job..
It does however weaken any tirade you may have about those who fall back on welfare..
Frenchy,
Are you for real?
Abandon my role as a mentor?
You don't know me or anything about me. I gave one example of one guy who could care less about the way he talked walked worked or even gave a damb about learning a trade.
I've been a Mentor to a lot of people and especially my son and I've helped a lot of people and I havce a big heart. You can try to help people but you can't save the world Frenchy and for you to say all of the above things to me shows what an A$$HOLE and how Stupid you are. I'm glad to see you have me all figured out. I didn't post anything to you so if you don't like how I feel don't post anything to me.
Joe Carola
Framer ,
if you carefully read my post I didn't complain or malign you one bit. what I did say was that as leaders we have a role of improving the lives of those who work for us.. You are free to feel otherwise.. regarding your son, congratulations (this is the first you've mentioned him) however you can be a mentor to anyone. If you chose not to that is your privilege.
Yes there are those who can't and won't get the message no matter how it's said or explained and if that is really the case well it's his loss..
You were free to read my post and say yes I did all that and yes I try.. From the tone of your response I wish you had..
finally regarding posts, all I ever do is click on the reply icon, if you received something then it was in reply..
Frenchy,
a few points
1) you aren't REALLY gonna live up there in lily white Minnesota----in a pretty affluent neighborhood-----and lecture the rest of us about tolerance and diversity. LOL
Ya REALLY better know who you are talking to before you start that lecture LOL!!!!
2) Joe Carolas' ROLE as you put it ---is as EMPLOYER. He has no role as mentor---unless he chooses to take up that role. No way you can arbitrarily assign him as a mentor with a few strokes on your keyboard.
3)Personally---I don't really like being an employer---so I have learned for the most part to function as a well established business---without long term employees. My big problems are that employees at this level are apt to confuse their employer with some sort of daddy figure---looking for some kind of un-conditional relationship-----and on my part I generally expect any employees to take their employment and livlihood as seriously as I take mine---and that just aint the case with entry level or semi skilled employees----here today--gone tomorrow.
4) you would have to look pretty hard to find a thread where I ranted about people on welfare
there but for the grace of god,go i
5) In reality Frenchy I used to make the SAME mistake every year for maybe 12-13 years. I would hire young men---usually several each year--cause they don't stay put for long---------and every year I would try to give these young men the kind of opportunity I was looking for at age 18--19---20--21 or so. I wanted to learn a trade---I knew virtually nothing----and i was willing to WORK. ( I always knew I wanted to have mo own business eventually
So I would hire a likely looking man---many times I bought him his first set up basic hand tools, nail bags whatever-----even bought some of them work boots----gave a lot of them company shirts, coats everything.---No transport---ok , I will pick you up for work. Helped a lot of them open their first bank accounts----had to explain to one guy how a paycheck worked---and that you couldn't wait untill 9:00 on a saturday night and expect to get it cashed----explained to a lot of them about advertising, insurance, bookkeeping---on and on and on.
BTW Frenchy---I am nothing special----I know COUNTLESS guys here have done the same for tons of young men.
but I am not doing it anymore---I have finally learned my lesson
I have no obligation to 'mentor" or parent these guys----an employer shouldn't have to teach a 20 year old man things I---and most of us knew---when we were 10-12 years old going out and getting our first grass cutting jobs
ALSO BTW-----what freakin planet are you living on---where you will send your wife off in a car alone with a freakin day laborer you picked up off a street corner a few hours ago---AND JUST FIRED ??????? ARE YOU INSANE.
Very best wishes to you Frenchy---and I truly and with all respect hope your wife doesn't end up on the 6:00 news.
Stephen
I'm sorry but Minnesota has about the same percentage of non-Caucasians as every other state.. My wife works with them on a day to day basis. if she felt uncomfortable she'd let me know it..
Someplace in your life someone showed you how to do something, that may have been a parent or a fellow worker or it may have been a school.. whatever those who shared that information are mentors..
If you haven't ranted about welfare then wonderful.. I just feel that if we fail to help our fellow man then we fail Jesus somehow. (I apologize right here for any religious reference) but those are my values
your position regarding helping others get started seems admirable, too bad you weren't able to get the feeling I have in the past when I showed someone how to do something and see them go on to be a success. I can't tell you how great that made me feel..
My experience with recent hires is different from yours, please read my first posts on this subject..
SImilar experiences here in Jersey: Hired one 25 year old from a family that had a bad divorce situation where the old man gave this kid no respect or sense of self worth. Tried hard to help this "young man" develop some confidence and skills. Kick in the pants for me was... after buying him some basic tools, paying him a little bit more than he was worth and making sure he always had some hours even in slow times...that this SOB was lying to my face about being serious about improving himself, and was instead spending his pay on Friday nights in a crappy bar getting drunk. He hid his DUI arrest from me for 7 months, until the week before his court case was to come up and he was going to lose his license for 6 months. That twerp left me high and dry for help one week before starting my biggest job of the year. When he sheepishly told me "Looks like I'm gonna lose my license next week" I took the time to counsel him on how to stop being an idiot... and let him go on the spot. Last I heard about him, he was doing home repairs on his own. His clients are those crappy homeowners who want to do without conforming to code. He'll get sued some day, for sure.
So I hired another kid, this time with a "pedigree": 22 and just graduated from State University of New York with a 2 year degree in furniture. Came from a very well off family and he too had the baggy pants, couldn't speak a clear sentence, and moved slower than a turtle. His skills were raw but the talent was there. SO I invested time in him... and gave him the run of my wood shop during his free time. Kept him busy days doing remodeling. NOT ONCE in 12 months did he use the shop on his own. Yet he claimed he wanted to "design and make furniture" for a living. One Friday I gave him one heck of a good offer to get serious about what he was doing with his skills, and the weekend to think about it. He called in on Monday, saying he totalled his mountain bike over the weekend... did hundreds of dollars worth of damage, and dislocated his shoulder and tore up his knee. "Oh, by the way," he says, "I went on a job interview this morning. And I used you as a reference. They should be calling you today." I took the call and told the truth, nothing more and nothing less. You know what I got out of it? The personnel manager on the other end thanked me for being straightforward. And invited me to stay in touch with her.
I'll be sheep-dipped if I'm gonna pass along society's little nightmares on to the next guy. The world's too small for that. Let 'em stay home and watch The Price is Right for all I care.
So here's my bottom line for dealing with these "youth of America," as learned the really hard way: Be professional with your workers. Be serious about your instructions and your quality requirements. And don't let their baggage bceome yours. Pay them what they're worth BUT make sure they know how valuable they can become if they learn and grow.
Thanks for letting me rant.
I have 2 black dudes from the hood I try to get each and every time I need someone.
I started out using Labor Ready in the rich norther suburbs ... get alot of crack head white punks ... but all the more fun working them into the ground ...
took a sub job in the city .. closer to where I grew up ...
called the local Labor Ready place ... they sent over these 2 guys.
That first job entailed walking across some site built scaffolding ... had to access the work area thru a window I removed ... then get up and around the side of the house to the drive.
Their job was to demo plaster and run the wheel barrow.
So Labor ready sent me two of the biggest black dudes ya ever saw.
First .. he had to make sure the planks would hold them ... let alone them plus a full barrow!
After that was set ... I told them ... I figure this to be a 2 man job .... 8 hrs if the slack all day ... 6 hrs if they work decent .... maybe less if they bust a$$ ...
Said ... when all that is in there(the dumpster) ... we'll all go home ... and your cards will be filled out for the whole 8 hrs ...
Biggest guy says ... So if we really bust a$$ and knock that out in 4 hours ... you're gonna say we both worked a full 8 ...
I said ... Yes. The faster U work .. that faster U are home.
It was about 99 deg that day ... 99% humidity.
Those guys humped faster than any white full queens english speaking crew I'd ever seen! I had a cooler and cups set up with ice water ... practically had to force them to stop and take water breaks ... both smoked ... they'd take "speed smoke breaks" in shifts ... those wheel barrows never stopped moving.
They were shooting for 4 hours ..
they were done in 5.
got paid for 8.
when I work the labor ready guys ... I have a daily goal in mind ... tell them ... anything less ... I'm complaining and they don't get paid. Hit that goal ... always realistic ... and they go home early with a full days pay.
Have only had to tell a hand full of guys to Get the F outta here ...
I always seem to have better luck with the HoodRats too .. as opposed to the guys from the suburbs ... probably because I grew up hanging in the hood.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Buck,
I love that story!
over pay and guys will work themselves to death.. no bitchin' no excuses and defined goals and resilts..
It's perfectly in line with my experiance..!
like I tell them all ...
I got a daily goal.
they finish faster ... and I get to go home early too!
on "labor ready days" ... all I plan for myself is to babysit.
I also don't let anyone alone in the house ... I shoot for a straight .. well marked path ... from point A to point B. Step off the dotted line and if I don't like the answer I let them know the HO's are gonna know a stranger was roaming around there house .... and we will figure out if anything's missing ... and after the cops find what ever they stuck in their pockets ... and that I will be back a coupla weeks later without the cops.
On babysit days .. they finish up early .. and I don't miss any production .. as none was planned.
some guys laugh and we all get along .. some guys get that hard-guy look and try to stare me down .... I just tell them I don't play attitudes and they're done for the day. Best with the Labor Ready dudes is to fire them in the first 15 min if U think they'll be a problem.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff,
you usually sound just like I did--maybe 10 years ago.
Watch out---you will be voting democratic fairly soon!!!! LOL
Seriously though
I used to use temp labor agencies--A LOT-----maybe the first 8-9 years I was in business. I used A LOT---( I can't stress that enough) of day labor. I usually did pretty much like you describe.
I got a few REALLY clean cut guys---one stands out---a rube from Iowa who drove here in a little pickup truck with some camping gear and a few hand tools------He wanted to be near " The Ministry" and live a simple life as a carpenter-----his first 15 hours here found him bunking overnight in a homeless shelter with crack heads and his first day of work humping shingles up a ladder for me.----that's when he found that the TV minister he moved here to be near REALLY lives in Florida---and that his "Ministry" was just a scam he didn't know about back in Iowa.
most of the guys were not that clean cut----
Like you I had some " favorites"----guys I preferred to use-----but If I want to use them---be assured plenty of other people are requesting them also and they aren't gonna be available forever.----good for them---bad for us
And---I don't have to tell you--that a guy doesn't reach age 25 or 30 and end up at labor ready one morning with all his worldly possesions in a brown paper grocery bag with out SERIOUSLY effing up somewhere---usually MULTIPLE TIMES.
I haven't used these temp agencies in 7-8 years. Eventually experience taught me that I wouldn't want these guys around MY home or around MY wife and kids-----and that being the case It wasn't right for me to bring them around my CUSTOMERS home,wife, and kids.
what I do now is---I have a loose system worked out with one of the subcontractors I use. He employs 10-12 guys. If I have a BIG job---I sub a lot of the bulk work to him ( I handle the details--custom flashing etc.)
A smaller job which can be done by one man---I do that solo---I prefer that BY FAR
the tricky ones are jobs that REALLY need to be done in one day---but will take 2 men.---I can't sub out a job like that profitably-----so that's where my arrangement with the sub comes in handy.
I "borrow" a helper from my regular sub---If I just need a laborer--that's what I get---If I need a semi skilled roofer---that's what I get---whatever I need to make the job pay. sometimes I pay the guy I borrowed directly---sometimes I pay the sub for the services of his employee. The guys I "borrow" are pretty happy to work with me for a day because a day with me is much shorter and easier than their regular situation.
Now---that said---none of these guys are exactly guys you would want dating your daughter------but I have known them all for the most part 4-5 -6 years. I have known the Sub 8 years.
It's a pretty good system that certainly benefits ME---but also benefits the sub and his guys 'cause it lets the sub periodically give some of his guys a little easier day---It helps the sub keep some of his guys busy at odd slow times etc.
BTW---I have for years used a service ---a sub actually ---who does construction cleanups---who would be PERFECT for the situation you described with the 2 big guys from the hood. He is VERY FAST--has his own dump truck---very reliable----I have used him for 6 years or so. Try looking for a service like that---usually my guy is cheaper than a dumpster---and I don't have to load it!!!!!!
Good luck man,
Stephen
most of the guys were not that clean cut----
I agree with that ... and pretty much every thing else ya said.
That's why I never have plans for myself other than watching them like a hawk.
a side benefit of my personailty ... I don't trust anyone ...
when yer as cynical as I am .... it comes naturally!
it's very rare that I let even those I've worked around inside the house ...
99.99 of the time it's for outside clean up work ...
or ... like the time I described ... it was inside a house ... but the bedroom door was screwed shut ... plastic baracaded .. and the only point of entry was thru the big hole in the wall I had made ....
I like a "well defined" work space when I use the rent a guys ...
my good Buddy Joe had to use them all the time at his last job ....
bs'ing one morning when he called in ... "Yeah, this is Joe. I need 3 or 4 guys ... basic clean up ... loading a dumpster ... and hey ... make sure they all bring their medicine with them ... and make sure they all that the first dose at home before they come ..."
I hear the girl on the other end laughing ...
"No, I'm serious. The guy I sent home early last week ... about 10 am he comes up and tells me he's not feeling "right" ... I though he meant sick .... so I said work easy till lunch .. then eat something ... right before lunch ... he tells me he's thinking "angry thjoughts" ... and that he wishes he took his pills that morning .... so I sent him him .... I'm just letting U know if I have to kill one of your guys in self defense I want a credit on my bill ...."
Joe was 100% serious ...
he said he learned one thing ... the guy that walks around "humming" to himself ... the only tool he's allowed to touch is the broom!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
frenchy,
1) you are delusional
2) you have some nice sounding theories---ones that " validate' your incredibly high self image------ and you have the luxury of applying them in pursuit of your hobby.
however----Just because the REAL world hasn't disproven them in YOUR experience---doesn't mean they aren' t seriously flawed.
3) on this topic---you really don't know what you are talking about------however I understand that you don't know ---that you don't know what you are talking about.
4) very best wishes to you and your wife----either the day laborers available in minnesota are all boy scouts and Rhodes Scholars---or you are taking a HUGE risk with your wifes safety.
Stephen
Why would I select scary dudes to work with me? Why would you? I don't hire people to send them home, it's too much work and far too easy to select decent people to work with.
When I have sent them home they usually felt the same way, the work was harder than they thought or they don't feel very good etc.. In addition their pockets aren't empty, they get paid in cash for that 1/2 hour or so and that takes some of the "sting" out of it..
My wife has more exposure to minorities/ down and out people than I get. She works for welfare and has well over 30 years experiance in dealing with them..
As I've said my wife would not hesitate for a second to tell me that she felt frightened. (she's not called, "she who must be obeyed" for nothing!) As an adult I don't rule her life, she makes her own decisions and we are both comfortable with that.
You'd really get upset if I told you that in my 14 years of selling construction eqyuipment I've several times lent or even sold $250,000.00 dollar pieces of equipment to guys with little more than a phone call.
Yes when I sell I finance, so in essence they get a $85,000.00 piece of equipment for single rent payment.. If they rent it long enough that's their downpayment and I'll carry the paper..
No credit, bad credit, recent immagrent? no problem. my interest rates are fair and modest ( 1% per month on unpaid) and in 14 years guess how many times I've been stung?
Go ahead, guess.....
Yep! three times and always with somebody the credit deptment approved. Those I chose to approve myself have never failed to make good!
Judgement like that allows me to live as I do..
hey, stephen ... now tell the truth... how can ya not love a guy like frenchy ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
LOL Mike,
Remember---I told him right up front how much I loved him
Ya gotta love a dreamer.
Stephen
Frenchy,
1) I always enjoy talking to you. As a professional salesman you are in fact a skilled debater. I would expect you to be able to take EITHER side of any discussion and handle it very well. I would expect you to be able to trounce me in any debate---in effect "win"---the doesn't however mean you would be " correct"
2)---the situation your wife generally interacts with the " downtrodden" is quite different then the one ---say Jeff or I typically deal with. very, VERY different. I suspect her perception is skewed. the people SHE deals with professionally---are going to approach her with a different attitude then what WE deal with-------( or is she making them shovel tons of debris into a dumpster in 95 degree weather under time constraints before they collect their checks??? does she need those 80# bundles humped up a 36 ft ladder NOW before that storm on the horizon hits??????
Nah---I don't think so.
3) do you really think Jeff, or I "select" scary dudes to work with by choice?????
Join the real world Frenchy---that's who is available to do this work.
4) I don't really quite buy your $250,000 equipment sales story. I could be wrong---but I think you are cherry picking your data---and perhaps mis-representing the situation.---I could be wrong---however
I don't know your specific business arrangements. Do YOU PERSONALLY own that $250,000 piece of equipment? WHO is REALLY on the hook for that $250,000????? You personally---or do you have an emplyer who is REALLY the one taking the risk? In fact---couldn't that piece of equipment be re-poed?---what's the actual risk? Are you financing that $250,000 out of your personal funds---or is it really somebody elses money at risk.----------- See, I don't know the answer to ANY of those questions---but I have reasonable suspicions
5) Now frenchy---I will tell you my REAL problem with your advice in this situation.
As I recall you are slowly building your own house---it's been going on for years---you are paying for it as you go along----you are pretty free to do things YOUR way---very admirable
But
That experience has next to NOTHING to do with what I, or Jeff, or Mick face up to and have to deal with.
Ya know---I am an amatuer woodworker----VERY amatuer. I have some pretty strong opinions about HOW some wood working operations should be done. My business affords me to be able to buy ANY tools I want and pretty much work out of ANY facility I choose.---
BUT
I am not gonna go over to the fine woodworking forum KNOTS and lecture some of the guys THERE who are actually trying to make a professional living at woodworking on how they should be chopping dovetails or storing lumber. In wood working I am working from a really privledged position of luxury and leisure--------quite different from HAVING to get something done in a certain time at a certain cost. My particular approach to woodworking has NOTHING to do with the realities THEY face---so I keep my mouth shut unless I go to them " hat in hand " and ask for their advise.
I counted it up this morning---I think I only post here on 4 topics---- 1)business--the specifics of working as a small ,profitable contractor, 2) roofing---the specific trade I generally operate in 3)Politics---that's fair game for everyone. 4) Education and religon----- I am paying tuition for my sons to attend a religous school---my wife teaches at another one---so it's of interest to me, it's intertwined and i have some in-depth behind the scenes knowledge.
4 things i feel qualified to comment on here---that's it. whatever I might know about painting, electrical work, plumbing, cooking, cars, gardening, boats, WHATEVER---it's irrelevant---I would prefer to hear from actual experts on those subjects---my opinion is of EXTREMELY limited value.
Now---if I wanted advice on buyin a LULL----your expertise would be priceless.
BTW-----I hope I haven't been too argumentitive lately----I have been killing a lot of time here in between coats of paint------living room, dining room, hallway,stairs, bathroom--------- on and on and on.
Best wishes, Stephen
Stephen,
You did an excellent job of making your points.. since we don't really know much about each other I can understand your concern..
Regarding my wife, She's made her own decisions for far longer than the 27 years I've been married to her, she wouldn't hesitate to say no if she felt concern.. Please trust me on that score.. she does have a degree of exposure when someone comes to her expecting a check and there isn't a check. Things can get pretty hostile especially if the rent is past due and the kids are hungry.. In the past there were plenty of threatening events and since it occurs often enough she has a panic button to call for help..
When I go and get temporary help I select from the same group of people that you do.. those who frighten me aren't selected, nor are those who are in obvious distress from abuse of drugs/ booze etc.. Part of my experience in judgement requires me to study peoples eyes. (it's a trick I learned from a cop) you simply can't hide your "soul" (sorry, but it really fits) in your eyes. It's not an overnight technique granted but it can be learned and with time and enough exposure you'll soon be able to start to "see" into people..
Go to the realestate section and punch in my Zip code, 55391 look at what the average home costs in that zip code and then realize what a small portion of that zip code is actually lakeshore property like mine..
That's a long way of saying that you can't live here without being successful. I got out of the service in 1974 without a cent to my name and my father buried. I got here from that point only by my selling skill.
Judgement is required in my area of expertise. Few framers/builders that are just starting out have much in the line of asset or even credit score.. That is primarily who I sell to.. those who have been in the business for a while already own equipment and have lines of credit established..
Since the equipment I sell doesn't really wear out selling only to established contractors would have me broke.. My market is often the immigrant or young kid just starting out..
We work with small margins, and if I made a mistake selling a piece of equipment and lost that piece it would probably cost me my job.. Oh, depending on circumstances, given my years of experience I might be given a second chance, but under really tight supervision, impossibly tight supervision..
No it's not my dollars, but I treat it just like it was!
Regarding the fact that I'm an amature and you are a professional that is absolutely true.. However I remind you that I visit with about 2500 contractors a year (yeh, there are some over laps) all Professionals who earn their living doing what you do.. I gotta admit here I didn't find out about the "slave labor" sites on my own. that was with the help of several contractors, nor did I "discover" the untapped market of teachers. again that was with the help of guys just like yourself..
I've listened for well over a decade to contractors and those who seem to have the best temporary help were my models.
Just as a side note I've noticed a direct relationship with those who can do a great job working with crews seem to do the best when it comes to getting work.. They also seem to be the most successful..
Yes I am building my own house and paying for it as I go along.. reasons are many but in the end I am building a totally different kind of house.. sure there are timberframes, but double timberframes ? How do you fabricate your own trim from raw stock? (and who would use black walnut as exterior trim anyway?) I also design as I go and thus I don't deal with change orders, aw,... I'm too far of your subject,,. sorry..
Finally yes I do go over to Fine wood working and talk to them about things, for example I've found a very cheap source of wood that few seem aware of..
Fine wood, superb wood, things like fiddle back maple for 10 cents a bd.ft. and Burl oak (not burr oak) but burl like the dashboard of a Rolls Royce for 40 cents. tigerstripe black walnut for 65 cents a bd.ft.
I think I have some knowledge of how to effectively dry wood and what to look out for, things like that I share.. Sure I've only been really into wood for a little over 6 years now but I have some insites and some answers.
I ask them questions and they help sometimes, and if others ask about my experience with equipment I am free to give my experience..
Jeff
You said it all. The only thing I do in addition to yours is to buy them lunch. And like you I always seem to get guys willing to work their a$$ off from Labor Ready. And I let the manager of Labor Ready know what I was doing that helps me get his best guys available.
Bing
Mick, are you in Chesterfield Township, MI?
What kind of jobs are you finding?
What kind of workers are you seeking?
I've hired at least 500 guys in Michigan...some part time, most full time.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Try finding guys who retired from whatever the big employer is in your town. I find these guys are hard working, only want to work occassionally, and are more reliable than younger people.
have a good day
Cliffy
Thats what I was thinking too Cliffy.
Get a retired guy.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Mick .......I'm an older builder that has never used Spanish speaking labor but I look around and see the writing on the wall. My first Spanish class starts Feburary 19.
I only WISH I could find some hispanic guys in Akron , Ohio
Stephen
I had your problem as well, I need occasional help building my timberframe and want good people. I found two souces of good help.. teachers, and slaves
I go by the local "christian" school and post notices up and you'd be amazed at the help I've gotten, theatre majors, math teachers, ministers, janitors etc. I offer premium wages ($20.00 an hour) and ask for premium help.. I've always got it.. With a little instruction they quickly pickup how to do things and are eager to do as much as possible.. they tend to come all quiet and apologetic about their lack of skill, but that's exactly what I want I teach them what I want not put up with bad habits learned elseware.
The other thing I've done is go by the local slave labor market.. It seems every decent sized town has them it's a place where temporay labor hangs around looking for a day job.. What I do is take the tools I'll be using (hammer and saw for carpentry sort of work, shovel for digging and cement trowel for cement work and a sign with the same $20.00 an hour. and the word deficil (spanish for difficult) on it.. I generally get one more person than I think I'll need.
Language doesn't seem to be a problem if I take a moment and demonstrate what I want done and and the area involved. I do it with a smile and watch to ensure they understood.. I've also found that if I offer rolls and coffee I get more work than if I just have them go at it.. the sugar and caffine seems to speed them up a bit. I do buy them lunch and they really seem to give me a little extra in the afternoon
After an hour or so I take the person who isn't working out aside, give him his wages and have my wife drive him back...That's when I give them the rolls and coffe, it seems to eliminate any resentment in selecting one to eliminate.. the others seem to understand that I won't tolerate slacking off and give me their best efforts. If they all work out then the job gets done that much faster and they go back a little more refreshed..
As for the wages I pay, I tried to hire guys for $10 an hour and nobody showed, I paid $15 and didn't get decent help and they never came back. at $20.00 I can select pretty much my choice of workers.. and they all work hard for those wages (or I don't ask them back)
frenchy, I am wondering how you can afford to pay cash wages (presumably without social security, workman's comp, or income tax deductions) since it would be very difficult to write these labour costs against the job. There's a dude from Central America here who I could use now and then, but.....
Here's how I deal with the shortage of skilled labour:
To the original poster: I'm a one-man-band outfit. I like to keep things very simple. My approach during slow times, when a 2-person job shows up or the job schedule tight, is to bring in another one-man-band contractor. When things are 'slow', they're slow for the others as well.
The other guy bills me as a sub, and I pass these costs onto my customer. The job gets done quickly and the quality is there throughout, with reduced risks of accident, damage, wastage, theft. I'll I ask is that the other guy doesn't try and steal the customers I introduce him to. We return the favour.
Good point on the stealing customers part. I got a one man band carpenter to work with me doing a dormer. It turned into a good thing that lasted 16 months until we got slow in winter and he got an offer with a large finish contractor. But one day he walks up to me (we had been working on this house in a cul de sac neighborhood for about 10 months) and says a lady from the neighborhood stopped to compliment the work. Seems she asked for a card- I ask how he could have given her a card when he didn't have any of mine. "I gave her one of mine", he says, "if she calls, I'll give her all your number".
I was seriously pissed, those customers had been with me a long time. I think it took the guy a long time to realize he was wrong to rep the job as his own. Things were honestly never the same after that- he was invited to be there to make money not customers!
Byrnsie...why were you pissed? You're the one that didn't make sure your worker had an ample supply of business cards and instructions on what to do when a potential client approached him.
I hope your pissed at yourself for no marketing onsite (job signs etc.).
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Loyalty has absolutely nothing to do with marketing.
Byrnsie, you gotta make it easy to be loyal...and...if the guy wanted to steal your possible client, he never would have told you about the contact in the first place.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Well, at least you got 18 months of competent help.
Did this dude end up taking on a job with your customer?
No, the neighborhood was very small- everyone new everyone. I did get 1 1/2 year of competent help and it worked out great. He went on to work for a high end finish company and got all the benefits he needed for his family- no regrets. I just get bent when you bring someone to a job, they get paid well, treated well, but then forget when a car rolls up who's names on the job.
Society has taught everybody that there is no loyalty.. Let me ask you this, If work slowed down would you go into bankruptcy to see that your workers got a paycheck? of course not! You need to lookout for your family first. thus employees know they are lower on the totem pole than the owners family and react accordingly..
Frankly you can't have it both ways.. In the thirties, forties, and fifties. even into the sixties with a few companies workers knew that they would be taken care of by their boss, tough times or not.. Now the buzz word is down size, Job Mobility and "what's in it for me"
That's the trade off we get for the way society is..
I'm tempted to make a political discussion of the matter but it wouldn't be appropriate, see ya in the tavern...
I forgot to talk about this a couple of days ago Frenchy---and I apologise for bringing it up so late
But
I don't think it is cool AT ALL
To pick up one more laborer than you think you need---and then canning the slowest one a half hour later.
It makes sense from a business standpoint ( I have been tempted to do it myself)---but from a human level---i think it suks.
In actuality---you are really screwing one of those guys---before he ever sets foot on your job.
Of course your situation might be different
But Here
What the situation is
The day laborer is sleeping in a homeless shelter on a cot with about 50 smelly, farting, crack heads in the same room. He gets up at about 5:00 and walks about 2 miles to the labor agency------carrying ALL his worldly possesions in a brown paper bag--( now-adays it's likely to be a black garbage bag).
Laborers start being sent out on jobs at about 6:00---so he has to get their early.
Most jobs will be filled BEFORE 8:00 or so-----I usually picked up my guys about 6:45 or so---cause in those days I tried to start work on site by about 7:00.
If I work a guy for a half hour-----and then can him---I have well and truly screwed him for the day---because by the time he gets back to the temp agency---there will be no jobs left to be sent out on.
If you pick up 3 guys knowing you are only keeping 2---you are really screwing a dude BAD. Remember this is a guy who got up at about 5:00---and walked 2 miles for the chance to shovel debris into a dumpster----he clearly wants to work on some level-------he would have been better off if you had left him at the temp agency where he had a chance to be picked up by a lawncare contractor or landscaper ----his effort level might have been just fine for THEM.
Most of these guys were absolutely penniless when we picked 'em up---in fact the temp agency routinely advanced them $2 cash so they had SOMETHING when they were sent out. No point in complaining about their lack of work shoes----they were either wearing or carrying EVERYTHING they owned.
I was tempted---but I don't think I ever sent any of these guys home early-----some of them quit on their own-----but I think everybody who was willing to stay the full day got paid the full day
I remember 1 guy------we tore off 5 or 6 sq. of roofing X 2 layers---so 10---12 sq of shingles to be loaded in a dumpster. He worked all day---got maybe 1/3 of it in the dumpster. end of the day he asks me" ya want me to come back tommorrow and finish up?????" kind of hopefull
I told him " Sorry---but I can't afford to pay you 2 days to do 1 days work-------those shingles should have been in the dumpster by lunch."
He was a little miffed and said " hey---I can only work so fast"
I told him " I understand---but I have to spend the next 1 1/2 hours or so shoveling all this in the dumpster myself---it can't wait untill tommorrow because tommorrow I will be tearing off the same amount and IT needs to go in the dumpster tommorrow also. Thanks for your help today anyway."
Cost of doing business
but I don't wanna screw a dude that low on the food chain
AND---I don't want to go back to the point where I am dependent on that level of labor---or to where I am exposing my customers to folks that low on the food chain.
anyway frenchy---I am drained. I said about everything i can contribute on this idea.
Best wishes---I hope ya sell somebody a $80,000 forklift or something today.
Stephen
Yeh, I did say that poorly, and no I don't get more help than I can use just to use one as an example. I did say something to the effect if everything goes well they get home sooner, (I can't remember exactly and haven't looked it up).
Perhaps I should have worded better to explain that but I was more concerned with how I felt about having to let someone go.. More concerned that you and others would think that if someone didn't work I'd still pay them sorta like my own charity.
Sometimes I overthink things and as a result add confusion rather than simplify... (I think that's the nature of a salesman who is used to handling objections).
You are right Stephen, to hire someone just as an example would be a terrible way to treat a person.. I hope you believe me when I say that is not the way I work.
Mick-
Pay peanuts, get monkees.
I agree with the guy that says $20 an hour did it. I used to have a call list of a few local night mechanics that wanted to do something different on the side. I also had a couple of firefighters who worked a 4 on/ 3 day off schedule. I payed good and word got out that I paid on the spot, always had a plan were everyone would be safe- proper ladders and staging- it makes a difference to union guys that are used to a safe work environment and are usually horrified by the "real-world" work conditions out there, also I'd do what I promise- "will meet at 7am stop for lunch...clean-up at... leave at 3:00 . Now one of those guys works almost everyday.
Yeh, I guess that's it, pay, fair treat 'em fair, and pay prompt. at the entry level it can make a differance in that persons life!
I also won't cut corners on safety. proper staging or work platforms, harness, hard hats and I make darn sure I never ask someone to do something I wouldn't do myself..
The other thing is when a fat old guy like me gets in there and works right along side of everybody they naturally have to show me they are superior.. It tends to turn into good humor and smiles all around.. Sure makes the work go easier..
In the end I never want anybody to get hurt building my dream..
FWIW:
As a suggestion. look for the retired military types. I'm recently retired, and working occasionally for a one man band. He calls when he needs help, I disappear when he doesn't. He covers things on a 1099, so everything's legal, and I'm happy with it.
Know several guys, in my same situation. We grew up with some skills, learned others along the way, have a work ethic, understand how to show up on time, and aren't too proud to say we don't understand something, instead of blindly doing what we think you want us to do.
Most of us are more fit than the average guys half our age, and we're trained to do things safely. We don't waste stuff, don't steal, and we don't tend to break things.
If you live anywhere near a post, installation, etc you'll find a transitions office in the phone book. Call 'em, and post a ad on their bulletin board. Takes all of five minutes to get the word out. Most guys in transition are anxious to do something "physical" until they decide what they want to do with the rest of their lives.
I found myself in an identical situation last year at this time. One day while driving home from the job I passed the local trade school - which I pass every day. Like divine inspiration something told me to pull in and see if there was a kid in the construction program looking for work.
Well long story short - I not only found a kid who was "hungry" but he is willing to work seven days a week and is disappointed when we have a saturday off.
If there is a local trade school in your area give it a try. You may get as lucky as I did.
Good luck
Good Enough isn't.