How long should a property survey last?
PeteDraganic
| Posted in General Discussion on
In our city, the building inspector is now requiring a property survey before issuing a fence permit.
I see the validity there but also can’t imagine that it is too huge a problem to warrant the expense.
Anyhow, he will only accept a survey if it is less than 5-years old. Is this reasonable? What would be the problem with a 10 or 20 year-old survey?
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Replies
Be nice if that applied here, as my neigbors fence is on my property by a foot.
What do you do if somebody builds on the wrong lot?
I'll betcha Tom can answer your question.
i always encourage my homeowners to have their surveys monumented while they are being done..
usually costs about $200 a point for a granite monument survey marker
saves a lot of grief as the years pass
your BI should accept monuments from previous surveys no matter the time past
i'm not talking about rebar points either.. i mean granite or concrete bounds
Fifteen years in the land biz, never seen a granite marker except one time. It was noted in field notes (from about 100 years ago) to be about 12"x12"x28" with six chisel grooves on the east side. Obviously, that was not a marker that was hauled in. It took some looking, but we found it.Here, most markers are 1/2" rebar with a stamped aluminum cap stating the surveyor's license number.Gov't set section corners, which only occur in certain places, are usually a 2 1/2" aluminum pipe with a cross mark and the section numbers of the four sections that meet at the corner. Sometimes there is a bearing tree. I'm attaching a couple of pictures of one that DW and I recently came across while out hiking.
where & in what universe are you?
where was I not open & honestit was a poor reaction but still look at it like a soccer foul
the more egregious infraction slides by
about a month ago a home owner living next to 32 acres i own was putting in a new tile bed next to my property & appeared to be encrouching on my land
I spoke to the sewage inspector about it and as a result the contractor had to move a cffending run & relocate it further onto yhe homeowners property
It seems the homeowner felt he must own the trees behind his house ( i own within 5' of his house & prior to his taking possession of his home i put in new stakes at the pins & painted them flourescent )
I gathered they were totally ignored
It seems a farmer who leases my land told him it dident matter & not to worry about it i was told
I passed the word back that i would change the lease arrangement with the farmer & it would only take 5 minutes & he no longer have a lease
Farmer straighted up his mouth & threw in a $ 125 gratuity , end of story !
you were not open and honest when you failed to set the contractor and neighbor straight, on what was expected of them, during the project instead of waiting and exploding later.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
area was to be returned in original condition - all agreed to by all parties concerned - written & oral
If you look along the Interstate Highway (IH) system, you'll see ROW markers that are tapered cast-in-place concrete shafts about 6"X2'. They usually stick up out of the grass and can be seen at the beginning (PC) and end (PT) of a curve, on both sides.
In the 1930's, most all of our control for the US was set by triangulating down RR ROW's, including elevations, by USCGS crews. This was all 1st order work, and was done with chain and dumpy level. The chainage was done with rigidly enforced standards that included temperature correction (a shade was erected over the chain every 100'), and standardized chains. The monumentation then was required to be a poured-in-place concrete base with a 1/4" copper or brass pin to resist corrosion by the concrete. Some had a USCGS brass plate attached also. These were usually every mile along traverse lines.
The capped rebar used now is really better, as you don't have to bump the pin around to get in the center, just punch the soft aluminum cap on line and distance.
When I bought my property, there were several different markings. NE corner was a 6" granite from way back when. It resides on the "center line" of the island which is an original demarcation that never gets contended.The SE corner is a 1" ( yes we use 1" here because 1/2" rusts off too fast) with cap from a surveyor who marked off my southern neighbor's property about 20 years ago. It is on the center line too.My northern 950' line WAS identified by a series of hash marks on trees until some contention arose. That line was identified on deed from wayu back in history as proceding from that NE granite corner to "a pile of stones near..." the roadway. Well, that roadway had been rebuilt and widened and straightened 30-40 years ago, and a steel pin placed back some ways from it. the location of that pin did not agree with the line demonstrated by the hash marks.My western boundary description was originally described dependent on that pile of stones.Now when I first started improving the property, I had the backhoe and was digging a ditch so water would not course right down the center of my driveway. That ditch was 2' inside of a line with my SW neighbor as described to me by the folks I bought from. Said neighbor disagreed. Next AM is how I found out - he had filled half of it back in again.So I asked why, he said it was his land. I asked where HE thought the line was and I redug just my side of it to keep the peace. He was one of those kind who wants a fight and runs out of hot air when he agree with him, or ignore his steam. Since has moved on.well, all this is fixed now ten years and about $14,000 later. Three neighbors and I have Frost's good fences and we are good neighbors. I lost a few feet along north in deed, but gained it in useage by purchase of easement. I could have just moved the roadway onto my property for about the same cost, but we all liked location it is in better.Funny part of it, when doing the survey, and research, my lawyer learned that that nasty neighbor did not own that 2' he contended. As a matter of fact, he did not own a whole small triangle there, about 35' x 50' and his storage shed was 2' on my property.With him gone via divorce, and his lovely wife being a good neighbor and raising two kids alone, we deeded that over to her gratis.
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glad you were able to pull the tooo magnanimous farmer in check & reasonableness prevailed - and most desirable of all he has honor
Actually what was conveyed to him was " smarten up or your history in 5 minutes ) being magnanamous i gave him 4 extra new york minutes !
The acerage i have there is a future proposed plan of sub division thus my sensetivity on the issue of encroachment !
Seems like a correctly recorded deed, with either the property boundary survey or the legal description, would be just as valid whether it was 1 year or 100 years old!
The last document to be recorded is the only thing that matters legally, correct? Unless a land owner has "squatter's rights" due to acceptable use over a period of time.
Just my logic, no professional opinion here.
"The last document to be recorded is the only thing that matters legally, correct? Unless a land owner has "squatter's rights" due to acceptable use over a period of time."No on both points
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I can see him wanting a new title search perhaps to see if any easements or covenants have been registered, but why a new survey?
Edited 7/30/2009 3:46 pm ET by fingersandtoes
He wants a physical survey to verify that everything is correct before a fence is erected on what is potentially a neighbor's property.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
"He wants... "LOL, find out what he has legal authority to require.
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Probably to make sure no one has moved markers, which is possible anytime, but at least in 5 years would be less likely.
Maybe he also has a friend who is a surveyor?
I'll be curious to see the opinion of actual surveyors here on this one, but my experiene is that precedence trumps. few surveyors are going to make any 'corretions' to previous surveyors work without overwhelming evidence of errors, tho if markings are not clearly in evidence on the ground, I can easily see the need for having a surveyor place new pins.
So in a case where pins or other bona fide markings are clerly in evidence and astamped paper survey is held, a survey should be equaally as valid if it is forty years old as if it is one year old.
I run into this occcasionally re seteback requirements on side lot lines. When there is any doubt, we get a survey.
When there is any contention, we get a survey.
When the neighbors are throwing stones, we get a survey.
There is another thing going on across the ountry, and that is GPS mapping and co-relating that with tax maps and plat maps. Local governments have been recipients of grants fromm the Feds to facilitate this upgrade, but they still ome up short, budget-wise. so I would not be surprised if your locals are trying to get owners to share some of the costs be this sort of requirement.
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Survey crew doing my property last year had no problem in "correcting" my neighbor's survey (~4 years earlier?) side lot points based on two things:1. They were coming up with boundary marks ~1.5' away
2. The tacks in the older survey were always in the center of the stickThe field guy told me that they get within an inch before driving a wooden stake, then they drive the tack in to the stake to get it nuts to the wall. He said it's only 1 in every 4 or 5 where that works out to put the tack in the center.If you're putting the tacks in before you drive the stakes, however...I think that's why my survey took a full day and cost ~3k, and my neighbor's cost ~$300 and took an hour or two. Funny thing for my neighbor - he actually got a little swampland for my trouble!-t
tacks?
stakes?no 1" pins with stamped caps nor granite?
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What? You think we're shipping granite out here to bury in the ground! I've never seen a granite corner in the PNW, although there is the occasional "witness tree."But, you're right. Corners are usually buried 1" pipe with a plastic cap. For supplementary side lots and wet/unstable locations, it's usually 2 X 2 stakes with a 1/8" diam dimpled pin driven at point. In my case, the shared front corner pin was spot on (based off brass street monuments) but the back corner and two additional side lot marks were below the winter high water mark. As such, only the previous survey groups markers (stake and tack) were found. And they were pretty well off. I think the previous survey crew preferred giving the land to the neighbor (now me) rather than get their feet wet...-t
My next door neighbor has had 3 surveys in the 15 years she lived there. (initial mortgage, a fence and a refi). There are 3 pins in the corner of our lots encompassing a triangle you couldn't cover with a dinner plate. Each surveyor says his is the right one.
My wife used to build houses and brought a community out of the ground overseeing the platting of 250 lots. They had lots of subsequent locates for different things. Her opinion is they never guarantee less than +/- a foot. That agrees with what I see at the corner of my yard.
I am not sure where the benchmark they used around here would be.
it depends on the "order" of the survey you require.. you get what you pay forMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Basically, your BI doesn't want his adze flapping in the breeze in case some state or local requirements for monumentation have changed in the previous years, as they will do w/o the general public's knowlege.
Additionally, "called points," may have been moved by ROW construction, utility construction, or malfesence by adjoiners. Just because a M&B calls for a "1/2" capped rebar," doesn't mean it's the one called, or if it occupies the same place.
Plus, they may want to tie your property into their GIS data-base, and need the accuracy of modern equipment and GPS observations. Ten or twenty-year-old surveys don't have near the accuracy as is available today. When a property was worth $.01 a sq ft, it didn't really matter. Now it may be worth $100 a sq ft, and that closure of 1/10,000 can cost you and adjoiners mucho denero...
In my city property lines are a major battle..
A neighbor three houses up wanted to put in a new house. So they hired a non city approved surveor team.. found out several interesting things..
For example according to the original plot map I own the street in front of my house. (city can't refute that)
In addition the original survey marker was incorrectly installed which puts the property line 8 inches into my yard but I get 8 inches of my neighbors yard. The only marking stake that every survey team seems to accept is an old Ford Axle. The rest, well let me just say there are dozens of survey stakes indicating my bounderies..
Kind of doesn't matter because the law of adverse possesion (grandfather law in some locals) gives me my yard but allows my neighbor to have his power lines across my yard.
"Anyhow, he will only accept a survey if it is less than 5-years old. Is this reasonable?"
Reasonable? .....yes and imho a good thing but as Piffin mentioned, does he have the legal authority to do so? In a former life I worked for a fence company. We were on a job in Bridgeport, CT. Found the markers, laid out our line. The neighbor comes out screaming we were on his property. We kept working. He came out and screamed some more. Next time he came out he had a shotgun. Cops came out. We shut down the job. The customer had a survey done ......... we were good. The neighbor sat out and watched us the whole time until we finished. Couldn't so much as put one foot on his property .......... threatened us with trespassing. "Fun" job. If the survey had been done before before the job it might have saved a change of underwear. A current survey confirms what previously has been done; if it doesn't it at least brings the problem to light ......... no fun pulling out fence posts.
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Edited 7/31/2009 9:28 am by jc21
So if you built the fence and the survey came back that the fence was on the neighbors property, do you move it?
Yes!
you need to have it up for 7 years (some states it's 15 years) before adverse possession rules apply.
Good that leaves me another 6 and a half to save for the survey....
Here in Michigan adverse possession is not quite that simple. I have been involved and also have friends involved.
Just because you have a fence on it an mowed it for x # of years dosen't mean it's yours.
You have to prove the rightfull owner was not aware the they owned the property and you maintained the property thinking it was yours. And prove the maintainace created a $$$ burden that the rightful owner excaped. Just to name the key points.
Not an easy thing to pull off!!
So if the adjacent owner was told to have a survey done while pulling the permit and wouldn't do you do anything about it?
City says prove your case.
In our muncicipality I believe our BI can not require a survey before a permit is issused, but highly recommend.
If a fence is installed encroching the property line that would be a civil matter betewwn the property owners.
This is what I understand!!
Yah I hear yah....they said get a survey to make sure you build the fence on your property. And he said he fuhg with it. But he cut the tops of the posts off with a chainsaw, set em 24" deep (frost line is 36"and the pickets have a half inch gap between them....It might stay up a couple more years but I see some major heaves come winter.
He's just mad cus I told him to go jump in the lake when he asked me to pay for half the fence.
When installing a fence on a ROW, our BI's always told the HO to put it 1' behind the line. Particularly in a curve if the fence is built in chords, and not a true curve. We'd always deflect in POC's at 10' stations if it was a relatively short residential fence. Generally if you have C&G, you can pull behind the back of the curb to the corner, get a distance, and add a foot to that to lay out the chords.
People were always building their fences out square in a bull-nose radius at a corner. Never could "get" the idea of a chord....
Wow .
Here in Arkansas where chickens roam free and blue tarps on roofs rule , we just say ype thats good enough. If he doesnt like it he can move it . We pay more attention to each others wifes than our property corners. I mow over the line and he mows over mine . A fence means nothing but we set in a foot .
I didnt require permits for fences thank god. That puts it between whose interrested . I wasnt . Sombodies gotta pay for that BS. It shouldnt fall on builders and mechanics and thats exactly whose paying for the BI office . If they dont pull in enough money they raise the price of permits over all.
Edited 7/31/2009 2:00 pm by Mooney
In MA, adverse possession requires open, continuous, notorious, exclusive and adverse possession for 20 years. Adverse means you occupy someone else's property and don't let anyone else enter. If you want to be safe, if you put a fence a distance onto your side of the line, send a registered letter to your neighbor once in a while, reminding him that some of your land is on his side of the fence.
In MA, some land is "registered." There is a certificate filed with the county registry of deeds that describes the property and any encumbrances. You can't get title to registered land through adverse possession.
Real property law is very variable from state to state, and especially from one area of the country to another.
Kinda, sorta close as here in Michigan. My case a portian of the house next door sits on my property by 5'. In the 5' is the bilco door entrance to his basement, he also has an inside entrance to basement.
In our attempt to resolve the issuse, he back out of purchasing property from me to resolve the encrouchment 2 times. I installed a fence that restricted his acess to the bilco door, we went to court, judge ordered that I grant him an easement and install a fence that denied me acess to the property,(easement).
Consulting with a different atty, my question: can that joker try to pull adverse posession on that easement that is fenced off and I have no access??
Atty said no, as long as I get over thier and mow every now and then and sent him written communication that I have mowed my property, (easement).
This past weekend I had to clean his tenats trash of from it and cut the weeds. I sent him photos of the trash and notice the the easement is for access to the basement only, not for storage of his tenents trash.
Oh, I forgot to mention that this joker is a slum landloard!!!
One of the unique land laws that used to be at the General Land Office (Texas) required that a new owner "travel the lines of said property, proclaming in a loud voice that this property belongs to him, shaking trees, urinating, spitting, or otherwise notifying nearby landowners of the new ownership."
So, just go pee on the fence and holler that "I'm from Texas, and this here property is mines..."
Almost there!! The slum landlords drunken tenants pee on the fence and I walk the property line with my .38 threating to shoot him the next time!!!
I am close to Flint, MI. a shooting is a nightly event here!!!
Only thing that would be closer to Texas is, I have the tenant mounted and hang on the wal after I shot him!!l!!!!!
LMAO.
Yer officially an "Ornerary Texican."
Urinating part was modified when electrified fences came along-again inches matter.
LOL
Yeah, these requirements predatated Lyndons "Rural Electrification" in the '30's.
However, you DID have to worry about attracting a hung-over Comanche...
inspired by Mike Smith & who's Ox getting goredI distinctly remember you could not believe that I would have some reservation to granting an easement to my neighbor for his sewer linewell we bent over backwards to move his project along without granting easement ( but by allowing this probably lost leverage & traction if he took us to court in future demanding easement ) and sure enough all work done as far as neighbor & contractor done & left me the mess without out even sweeping up my self righteous incensed self living an honest, accountable just life aggressively walked right up to his face stepping on his foot in process and lit into him telling him exactly what I thought of him - no threats of property or person beyond thatsegue into my imminent antiharassment protection order hearing
not looking forward to it
anyone w/ knowledge and or experience of such actions
wouldn't mind someone ( or me ) starting another thread if warrants
So, because you were so wound up over the whole matter you probably stewed and waited the whole time not satisfied with what the contractor was doing and then in the end reacted poorly in response to your frustration. Has you been open and honest along the way, this could have all been averted, no doubt.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Even stricter here.21 years, and then only limited rights, and those only if you file for a quit claim deed and that only if......
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In Texas, a fence means nothing more than a physical representation of a percieved division line, set by the best available technology and using basis points relative to the originial survey(s).
Monumentation, (pins, concrete monuments, witness stones, cairns, etc.) represent the accepted division line, as related by survey(s). Astute property owners NEVER put their fence right on the line. Put it six inches or a foot into YOUR property (if you are building the fence), and locate it relative to existing corners on a sketch that you keep with your deed or other proof of ownership. Give your adjoiner a copy too. Every homeowner should have a copy of their subdivision with their lot high-lighted so you can see the ROW, PUE's, and drainage features relative to your lot. You can get these copies from your local court house.
I've been on so many surveys with warring neighbors and seen some UGLY stuff. Mediation is better than getting the red-adze that leads to words and gunfights. Being a public servent, I would have to collar both parties and take'em around and show'em the corners, fence, wall, or whatever was bothering them, and help'em figure out an equitable settlement WITHOUT a lawyer. Lawyers just make things worse, EXCEPT in the case of drainage encroachment by diverting water onto somebody elses property causing damage. That runs into $$$.
That's how we do it in Texas. Don't know how ya'll yankees handle it...
I thot you all settled properties disputes with guns down there?
Or is that an Oklahoma thing?
Just when there's an uppity Yankee yuppity involved... ;-)
Well, speaking for this particular Yankee alone, I really couldn't care less if the neighbor encroached a few inches on my property. What real difference would this make in my life? People who so crazily defend those precious few inches (often to find out they are wrong) are ridiculous, imo.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
How about a couple of feet on 70' wide lot?
Just wondering....
Or as in my case once having a deeded city street run ten feet INSIDE your cabinet shop. No need for a survey, building has been there 40 years, streets in , side walks in, curbs in place, hydrant for fire is in...all right where they belong outside the building. OOPS nobody ever did a survey on that street since it was first surveyed back in the 1880's. What the he!!.... whats a few inches...or a few feet one way or the other.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Yeah well, what if they needed to repave that street!
Probably do the same as they had ever since the street was first put in , pave between the curbs that were 5' outside our shop.
Edited 7/31/2009 9:06 pm by dovetail97128
Sounds like a vacated easement that nobody bothered to record...
I had one like that to deal with.Paper street from 1881 that never got built, but never officially vacated to a butters.
one had a shop built on it and two shared a well drilled in the middle of it. A guy inherited a landlocked lot because of all that. His Ma and Pa never cared about it, but he wanted to build on it and started throwing stones ( figuratively) at all the neighbors who locked arms against him.State of Maine passed a ruling that as of some certain date in about '89, any unbuilt, or deserted paper streets were all vacated and returned to abutters.He is out of luck and shame of it is that he had been offered an alternate route for free that I was trying to get him to compromise on, but he got all nasty.
I think he enjoyed the fight more than he would have enjoyed the property. Some folks that way.
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It's amazing how many people will spend time and money on a fight instead of a solution. Seems like some people go a little nuts when they acquire real property.
Right of way for the street wasn't parallel.
60' at one end and something like 100' at the other. (Can't recall the exact number now)
Entire street for two blocks had property improvements encroaching on the legal right of way except for the Rebeka Lodge at the wide end on our side of the street.
It had off street diagonal parking so everybody figured that the parking was on the lodges property. Wasn't the case. Took 3 months of legal dealings and public notices and council votes to get the city to vacate the unused portion of the street and deed it over to the adjoining property owners.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Back in the '80's semiconductor boom and bust in Austin, a lot of small vacant subdivisions were being bought up and the small lots turned into huge ones. One case I remember vividly was on Cat Mountain, a REAL toney subivision where a developer had consolidated small lots into large ones, and a builder had built a $3 million dollar spec house on one of'em. Didn't have it surveyed on the ground, just a "paper" survey. Built the house over a 10 PUE with a 24" sanitary sewer in it. Didn't know anything about it until a form crew was excavating for the driveway and ran their bobcat into a MH. The builder had to buy the easement, and pay for re-routing about a 1/4 mile of sewer.
That's when the land surveying rules changed to outlaw "paper" surveys in Texas....
Surveys are good.Bought my land 15 years ago for 15K Could not afford a survey at the time.actions of a back end neighboring lot owner forced me to a survey couple years ago. Cost me five grandThen I had to pay the next door neighbor eight grand for an easement where the road in had been built on his land.Could have been worse.
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Where it gets sticky here is when the HO wants a 15' wide addition but required setback to property line is 15' and he owns 32' of clear space, but the neighbor claims he only has 28'.BTDTbut when the neighbor paid for her survey and her own surveyor told her she had another two feet less than anyone thought, we all had a good laugh on her
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That leads me to another point. We had a similar situation where a guy built an addition and it wound up 3.5' from a property line where 5' was the limit.neighbor had a fit and the councilman for that ward went on and on about how this is destroying the neighbor's property value and what kinds of lawsuits we could expect and so on. Oddly enough, the limit used to be 3'. Much hot air blown about over nothing of importance. The Building and Zoning issued a variance ex posto facto, over which the councilman had a conniption.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
something similar here - a goofy story of how the wealthy handle itCouple has a 7 acre tract and build with north end of their house 15-19 feet from the side lot line.Then the next lot north sells and that guy starts building.
Problem is, that structure is three stories tall and the lay of the land places it to be looming up over their house, and it is the ugly back of that structure that they get to see as they drive up to their place.They plant trees, but that solution takes time to grow to satisfying heights.They try to get the Board to take action and force the new structure to be moved back because it is "too close" to the property line! It was at least 45' back, while theirs was 15' or so, so that got a big laugh.Final solution - they bought that next property and moved the building down the hill and further north.
But the style of it makes it a white elephant so they can't sell it again yet after three years.
Nice people, but odd way of thinking and dealing with things.
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Years ago there was a local Dr Laura like call in show.Some one called in that they had just redecorated their home and a neighbor just had their roof replaced and and the color clashed with her decorating.He advice was to keep the blinds closed..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Exactly....
What if you lived in an urban area where you have just enough space to park a car. Then the neighbor says you are on their property and you will loose your parking space. I'll bet you would fight for those precious few inches.
nope... for a few inches? You've got to be kidding.If those few inches had a true and devastating effect, perhaps but that is rarely ever the case.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
"that is rarely ever the case."Guess you haven't been reading this thread, have you?
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I surveyed a tract (1/4 ac +/-) in downtown Austin once that was originially purchased for $125 in 1915. Stayed in the family for years (Mexican) and was a parking lot. Then in the '60's the family built taco stand (Rositias Tamales) and did business there for about 25 years, when it was sold to a land development corporation for $3 million. That's $0.01 a sq ft, to over $275.00 a sq ft.
A huge 30-40 story bank building was built on that tract, and some adjoiners at hundreds of millions of $$, and then it was found that the building line was encroaching 1" into the ROW of two main streets. We had to survey most of downtown Austin using originial monuments found at GREAT expense, to verify the position of the encroachment. The City of Austin granted them an easement for a palultry $670,000, IIRC. When they excavated for the bank building they uncovered three mastodon skeletons from about 60K BPE, and we had to locate those for the UT palentological dig. Down about 35' in the alluvial plain of the Colorado river.
Nowadays, inches make a BIG difference...
"Nowadays, inches make a BIG difference..."Yeah, I get emails telling me that all the time
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LMAO
I ain't sayin' shid, 'cause it'd be a cheap shoot... <choke>
choke your own, Every comedian needs a straight man
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Stop it!
Segrams and coke burns my nose...
I thought I told you to quit drinkin on the job.
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where have a few inches been reported to have a devastating effect in one's use of property?
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
in whether or not it is possible to build an addition or notIn whether one has had to pay extra for an easement to have use of it.in whether one loses a few square feet valued at a quarter million dollars a foot in valuation/equityin whether one has access to their property or notI forget all the others - those are just off the top of my head.
Read the thread thru and you can see them
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Those are the rare cases, like I said.I also think you're misrepresenting the "devastating" effects of these certain listed incidents
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
I guess that is how you define devastating, but there is nothing rare about those kind of cases.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i built a house in '82 ... relying on the survey stakes
after we were done the owner had to pay the abutter $3000 for an easement for his well that had been installed in the original development
his well was on the abutter's property by 2'
and yes.. it all matters if it's your ox being goredMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yes We had one where we had the posts were set ........ had to go back and move some of them. Couldn't prove it but suspected some funny business with the marker (rebar) by the HO. From an installer's POV having a current survey made life a lot easier. Even if you still had a ranting neighbor it at least gave you a leg to stand on.
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The survey is reasonable but the 5-year limit makes no sense. A neighbor recently had her property surveyed as did I and we used different surveyors. Mine check the stakes put in by her surveyor and found that they used the wrong spot for the county mark and her property line was off by 8-15 feet from where it was shown on her map. Had she been using the survey to build a fence there would have been a problem.
I would go to the supervisor and ask for an exception to be made in your case or go to your local council member or county supervisor and talk with them. Elected officials override staff on a regular basis to please developers so you may as well get in line.
I don't have a need for a survey. I am the councilman and have complaints on the new policy.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Since you're a councilperson, you should introduce (IMHO) a resolution that all future surveys be originated from a specific datum base, and that all of them be tied to your State Plane Coordinate System, or GIS, so existing tracts could be tied into said system(s).
That action would reduce abutting conflicts, and make ascessing acreage more convienent. It's been law here in Texas since the late '80's when GIS were being implemented, and GPS use was becoming widespread.
You'd be surprised how much money that saves...
Can you point me to an example of such a law?
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Not specifically, w/o much research. I'd start in your state statutes, which are available on http://www.findlaw.com, and /or call your local county surveyor or engineer for contact information for the governing body. It's usually the same Board that certifies professional surveyors to operate in your state. It may already exist in some form dealing with state or county highways or publicly funded projects.
I wouldn't call it a "law." It's more a professional requirement that ensures standards and practices be uniform, and provides easy access to real property information state-wide.
Tom, I think that in most jurisdiction, the requirments of surveying are defined by statute.
Well, in any state you have "standards and practices" which may be addressed in State Law or municipal/county requirements. That's the reason I told Pete to go look at his State statutes at Findlaw.
It's a good resource for lawyers or their victims... ;-)