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Any painters out there? I work for a large home
builder doing pickup and detail work. Fairly
often, we get stalled waiting for painting
subcontractors to come back and re-spray a
windowsill or a piece of millwork.
I’ve been thinking that we could handle some of
these small touch-up jobs ourselves, if we had an
HVLP rig. I’ve talked to the painters and been
told that the rigs go for $800 or more, but I’ve
seen a homeowner-type unit by Wagner that sells
for about $180. Anybody know anything about these
units? Would one be adequate for the occasional
small job, or are they worthless?
Also, could we use an automotive-type spray gun
running off a portable compressor and get the same
type of results that the subs get from their
special HVLP rigs?
Any advi
Replies
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Hello Doug,
I understand where you are coming from. I've been there myself. One question does come to mind, though. Will you be getting paid for doing this touch up work? O.K. I lied, here's another quaestion... If there is a problem with the paint job on the window area, irregardless of the fact that you only touched up, will the GC or painters hold you responsible for come backs?
Now on to the HVLP issue. I rented some of these high dollar rigs ($800.00 to $3,000.00 rigs) and one day I got tired of paying rent for them. I looked into purchasing one, and I found a Campbell - Hausfeld unit for $199.00. I tried it out, liked it, and I bought it. I used it for a couple of years and it went belly up. I sent it to a repair shop, and they couldn't fix it. Campbell - Hausfeld sent me a new unit, free. I was impressed. The newer ones are much improved over the old ones. By the way, my $199.00 unit works better than those high dollar rental units. I get as good, if not better finishes. Once you get used to the sprayer, and learn the techniques, it will give beautiful results. If you are not going to be using it all day, every day, then I would highly suggest that you start out with a unit like this, and if you find you need a much heavier duty unit then you can get a better, more expensive one. The higher dollar units don't have better guns, they have better turbine compressors (built in).
Wagner makes 2 different HVLP units. One is for finish coats only (like thinned laquer, varnish, etc...), and the other will handle thinned heavier paints like latex. Be sure you are looking at the right one.
I use mine to paint trim, doors, cabinets, etc... I have even used it to paint eaves and soffits on a house, and it worked great.
Just my 2 cents worth.
James DuHamel
* Doug,
Joseph Fusco View Image
*Hey, James and Joe...Thanks for the comments. I get paid by the hour to take care of whatever needs taking care of. Doesn't matter if it's adding cabinet scribe, patching drywall, or doing paint touch up. If I try spraying a few of these millwork items and mess up, I'll just keep getting paid to sand 'em down and try again. I imagine if I mess up too many, the boss will just tell me to skip it and we'll go back to waiting on paint subs.Both you guys recommend the $200 C-H unit. Is that new or used, and where might I look for a dealer? I still didn't hear an opinion on the Wagner unit, or on an automotive-type gun and compressor. In my younger days I worked in a body shop and sprayed many a car out, so I'm comfortable with the process.I took your advice and ordered the Charron book, too. Thanks.
*I've got a Fuji with a variety of nozzles($550). Works very, very well. Unfortunately it's hardly been used as I don't spray anymore. It's very nice, but I don't use it enough to justify owning it. I'll probably be putting it on the market soon.
*I have had good success with my hvlp unit. There is another option that may suit you. If you have a compressor available to you at the jobsite, you could purchase an hvlp conversion gun that is designed to run on the compressor rather than a separate turbine. They work well and would save you from the expense of the turbine and the room to lug it around. The one that I have is from Apollo and is more than capable of small as well as larger jobs. Good luck.
*James,I myself have been looking at the C-H HVLP gun and wondering how thick of paint it will handle. I know of course about having to thin the paint but what are its limits ? I have a regular- air compressor style gun but don't want all that overspray. I am planning in using the HVLP to paint six interior doors, Kitchen cabinets (I've read about and received lectures about painting the cabinets), and also my window shutters. What is the best type of paint to use for the cabinets and doors? Latex would be my choice, but what brand? The shutters will be more of a Rust Oleum type of paint..Steve
*Steve - I guess you already know that there are different needles for thicker materials, right? I learned to spray with the old Wagner airlesses. On those, we used to change the nozzle for different viscosities. When I switched over to HVLP, I had a heck of a time at first. But I like them better now because there are more adjustments you can make to your spray.
*Jim, what do you use and does it spray latex? I have been told that for latex you need a 3 or 4 stage turbine.Dennis
*Hey Dennis, how've you been? Get that Wisconson project done?I have a Campbell Hausfeld HV 2000. It is a self contained unit that you can pick up and carry in one hand and has a 1 quart pot. I have only used it for laquers and polyurethanes but I have the owner's manual here, and it says that to spray latex paint you need to thin it 15-20%.I am really pleased with it, but like I said, I've never used it for paint. (my little Wagner did a great job with latex paint, but I had to thin it down pretty dramatically).
*Steve,I have the same rig as "Crazy Legs", and it is wonderful. It will spray just about anything, so long as you thin the thick latex paints, and use a strainer religiously. Latex paints usually leave a bit of particles floating around, and these will definitely clog the nozzle.Like Jim said, there are two different nozzle tips that come with the gun. The nozzle installed in mine at point of purchase was for the thicker latex paints, and general purpose use.I use water to thin the latex paints, and I thin it according to the "drip stick" that comes with the unit. The instructions explain very clearly how to use the stick. It's very easy. Once you get used to the unit, you wil know how thin to get the material. I do not use Floetrol to thin with because it gums up too quick, and clogs the nozzle. The warm air from the turbine tends to dry the paint and the Floetrol quickly, expecially in warm weather. What I do is keep a small wire brush (like a toothbrush) in my pocket, and every few minutes I clean the nozzle tip. It's quick and easy to do, and it keeps the drying particles at the tip from getting blown on the surface of whatever you are trying to paint.I use a premium Acrylic Enamel when painting kitchen or bathroom cabinets. Enamels dry harder, and last longer. I use a variety of brand names, from Behr Premium Plus Bathroom grade paint, to Sherwin Williams paint, to Valspar Southern Tradition paint. All work well, and all hold up very well. Paint brands are not as important as the quality, or line that you use. Each brand has high, low, and medium line of paint. The higher lines have more pigment, lower lines less (and so on).Just my humble opinion...James DuHamel
*It's time for me to go to HVLP. I generally do built-ins, cabinetry, trim, exterior detail work when I spray. Though still using solvent based finishes, I'm moving towards water based finishes, including exterior gloss acrylics.Compressor/conversion HVLP or Turbine? That is the question. I need a new compressor, so I can go either way. The heat from turbine units may even be a problem here in the Virgin Islands, as temperatures average above 80 degrees.I want to thin finishes as little as possible, which may indicate 2 or 3 stage units over the smaller units.Any thoughts would be appreciated.
*Thanks to you both, Jim & James. I will go ahead with the purchase of the C-H HV LP sprayer. I recently tried the BEHR Premium Plus paint on the walls of the powder room in my house. It still reminds me of the old "Red Devil" acrylics that would always peel off in sheets like an old sunburn. But it has stood up to some scrubbing, as advertised.Thanks again guys,Steve
*I would like to know what type of sprayer would be recommended for painting a house? I would like to get an HVLP for my shop but my impression is they aren't suitable for large jobs (like painting a house) - is this true, even for the larger 3 and 4 stage models? If so, then would an airless or a gun with a compressor be better?
*Hey Jim,I paint a lot of houses, and the best investment I ever made was a pressurized paint pot. Mine cost $89.00 (you need a compressor for it)It is a two gallon pot that pressurizes with your air compressor, and has a gun very similar to an airless rig.I used to use airless rigs a lot. The paint pot gives me much more control, less overspray, and is much easier to clean up.An HVLP is not made for painting large areas like a house. It would take way too much time anyway.I personally use the paint pot, and then back brush as much as posssible.Just a thought...James DuHamel
*James, man, what do you mean "...pressurizes with your compressor..."? The air hose goes from the compressor to your pot, then another hose carries paint and air to the gun, or what? How big a compressor do you need/have? Thanks - jb
*James, I just read your suggestion about the pressurized paint pot. It sounds like a winner to me. Can you give me any informtion regarding obtaining such a thing? Did you find in via mail order? Any information that you can provide is much appreciated. Joel
*Hey Jim...The pressure pot uses the compressor to pressurize the tank, and send the paint up a tube, through a discharge hose, to the hand held gun, and out the end. There is a pressure regulator built into the lid (actually a separate regulator/gauge set up) You can even run paint rollers off of them. You are right about how they work. The hose from the compressor hooks up to one side of the regulator. This hose supplies the air to pressurize the tank, and air to the gun for mixing with the paint. 20 to 35 psi is usually sufficient for heavy bodied paints - while 50 psi is red lining it.The exit side of the regulator hooks up to the gun, and provides air for EXTERNAL mixing of the heavy bodied paints. A hose hooks directly up to the tank itself, then runs to the gun also. This is the paint supply hose. You can pour paint directly into the tank, or you can set a one or two gallon container in the tank, and the pickup tube sits directly in the containers. Imagine a pressure cooker. This is very similar to what one of these units looks like. The lid (with the regulator, pick up tube, and supply hose hookup all attached to the lid) bolts down (with hand wheel nuts)to form a tight seal. The gun for this unit is a cup type gun, with the cup removed and the paint supply hose hooked directly to the bottom of it. It is lightweight, easy on the hands and arms, and works great.This set up provides a paint applicator that is somewhere between an airless rig (2,000 to 2,500 psi) and an hvlp unit. It offers great control of the paint, and is easy to use.You need a compressor that is capable of operating for extended periods of time without tripping the thermal overload on the motor. I use a 4 hp 20 gallon Campbell-Hausfeld compressor, but most any will do. A pancake or hot dog type compressor will not work. They are not rated for continuous duty, and will burn up if you use one for an extended perios of time. Been there, done that.James DuHamel
*Hello Joel...I bought mine at Home Depot because it was on sale, and they had one in stock.Sears sells them, Harbor Freight sells them, and Northern Industries sells them too.Paint suppliers (like Sherwin Williams, Benj. Moore, etc...) also have units available, but they are WAY too expensive for me. Theirs has a turbine compressor built into the rig, and it all sits on a dolly. They start at $1,800 and go up from there. Nice setups, but not necessary.You can also rent one and see how you like them before you buy one. The rental stores have the pressure pots, and even a compressor in case you don't won one.James DuHamel
*Yeah, James gives good advice here Joel, rent a few different models to test them out first. Small cabinet shops often use these pressurized pots too. Check around your area, most guys are generous enough to share their opinions about what they have and how it works. There is also a section over at Knots dedicated to "finishing". You might get some opinions there.
*I've been pretty confused by all this too. I have the largest homeowner-grade Wagner airless (the handhelds in the stupid ads) and it does very nice work when it's in a good mood. Latex has to be thinned beyond mfr's recommendations to atomize nicely, however. It does fine for small jobs with the 1-qt. platic cup, but it gets heavy and the paint runs out quick if you're doing more than a couple dozen square feet. The gun is prone to occasional but very annoying sputtering and dripping, too. The finish tends towards a subtle "orange peel." It is quickly wearing out and I don't know what to replace it with.C-H sells the HVLP "Easy-Spray" rebuilt at $160. click No idea whether this a good deal. Also, Mongo seems to be suggesting "make me an offer." :)
*Hey, some reading material i dug up for the interested:. http://208.155.186.5 . http://www.campbellhausfeld.com . http://www.spraytechsys.com
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Any painters out there? I work for a large home
builder doing pickup and detail work. Fairly
often, we get stalled waiting for painting
subcontractors to come back and re-spray a
windowsill or a piece of millwork.
I've been thinking that we could handle some of
these small touch-up jobs ourselves, if we had an
HVLP rig. I've talked to the painters and been
told that the rigs go for $800 or more, but I've
seen a homeowner-type unit by Wagner that sells
for about $180. Anybody know anything about these
units? Would one be adequate for the occasional
small job, or are they worthless?
Also, could we use an automotive-type spray gun
running off a portable compressor and get the same
type of results that the subs get from their
special HVLP rigs?
Any advi