I am a building contractor from PEI Canada who frames most of the houses I build. Tomorrow I am assembling an 18′ high x 22′ long wall that I was hoping to have fully sheathed before standing. I normally use 2 standard 2×4 wall jacks to raise walls but dont think they will be high enough. The wall has 4 windows and an additional header for a fireplace opening so it will be quite heavy and ackward due to its height. The lumber is 2×6 as well.
Anyone have any experience doing this or any ideas? My ideas so far are to hook it up to a truck/loader/tractor or try it with 7 or 8 men.
Any ideas?
Replies
First off, I wouldn't even bother trying to stand that by hand. Someone's bound to get killed..... especially once it starts to get top heavy.... right around 1/2 way up.
Either wall jacks (like Proctor) or bring out the big guns. I'd use my forklift, but I'm assuming you don't have one of those around. Boom truck service would be my next phone call if I were in your shoes (no Lull, no wall jacks).
June 7, 1981
Raised a 28' x 18' high wall for the "Great Room", by hand, twice.
I wasn't there the second time, I was in the hallway of the local Hospital waiting for transport to a hospital that could deal with a 70% compression fracture of the first lumbar vertabrae. She bucked loose at the base, I was in deep and tried to hold, couple of guys on the end bailed, supriseingly, held for a bit, but, she came down and I was folded up under it.
Surgery, fusion, steel parts, 18 mos. later, surgery, remove steel parts, re-hab.
5 yrs. later, framed 1 house, bearly, then decided to try something else.
2 yrs. later, something else didn't work out, signed on with another crew, 22 oz. estwing and a bottle of codine. Took 3 mos. but I made it back.
So, just thought I'd add an esclamation point to your post in case some Yahoo thinks we're too cautious here.
a couple of years ago a framer put up a wall like that by hand, He asked some guys nearby to help, The wall fell on them , i think they had 7 guys and 5 were hurt real bad, not sure the whole story but there were lawsuits flying i think they were paying cash, rent a crane
I would start off by strapping (metal strapping off lumber delivery bunks) the bottom plate to the joists through the deck. frame the wall, then use a lift/crane to stand it up.
Or leave the sheathing off and stand up by hand.
Local guy here had a guy killed as well, when trying to stand a wall much like the one you describe with sheathing. Not worth the risk for our crane guy's minimum of $150.
Matt
No matter the inconvenience, DO NOT try to stand this wall by hand, even with 15 guys. That scenario has heartbreak and ambulances written all over it. A wall that size we would use a rough terrain lift like a Gradall or what have you. I am with most of these guys, a small crane is real cheap compared to anyone getting hurt.
This is the kind of dangerous job which should only be attempted by those who have learned how to do it from older guys who, in turn, learned it from the previous generation.
It's common practice in traditional carpentry to raise unsheathed timber frame walls of great weight and long dimensions by hand. But it still requires serious experience and excellent coordination to make it work. They use pike poles, lots of them, and just as many ropes, to push and pull the wall up, a little at a time. The number of men involved is way beyond what most of us have ever worked with.
Personal note; my crew once raised a typical 24' wall, with the gable end built in place. It was sheathed. There was a slight breeze coming from behind them as the lifted it up. Need I say more? LOL. Thankfully they all remembered to let go. ;-) I got to watch that one from across the street, where I was talking with the plumber about scheduling.
For a real eye opener search barn raising Lots of great photos and stories.
Pay for some crane time, it's cheaper than the wages for all those guys and way cheaper than the compo claims.
Now you really do have to sheath it. You'll also need to frame in a couple of small boxes for the threaded lifting eyes to bear on.
So today was the big day, right? What did you end up doing? No matter what you did, I'm pulling for ya..... I hope it's up, braced, and everyone made it home to Momma with all their fingers and toes.
(Tell me you didn't go the, "God hates a coward" route) :)
I was thing earlier that BT ought to have a folder "Validate my Bad idea"
for stuff like this....
.
."First thing I would do is shoot the carpenter"
OP has been quiet..... I'm wondering if just didn't like what he was hearing. At least it didn't go the route of some of those other threads:
Post 1: I have a really bad idea.... tell me I'll be ok.
Post 2: Don't do it.
Post 3: Yeah... but
Post 4: Don't do it.
Post 5: Don't do it.
Post 6: Yeah... but
Post 7: Forget it.... go ahead and do it knucklehead.
Post 8: You guys suck!
LOL..... those are my favorite threads. This guy did seem to have more common sense than that though. Hope all is well.View Image
Hope all is well.yeah if not for him than at least for his crew....
.
Fixing a hole in the ocean
Trying to make a dove-tail joint-yeah
I once installed a 14 foot metal building by myself with a lot of rope, scaffolding, pulley and a Toyota truck. hook a pulley at the top of scaffold,ran a rope to the Toyota and drove off.
how far didja get??
.
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Fixing a hole in the ocean
Trying to make a dove-tail joint-yeah
MisterT,
Why Thank You but I haven't partaken in years. ;-)"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Edited 6/30/2007 3:26 pm by dovetail97128
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I will take the job of the guy at the end of the wall ready to nail a brace on
Ayup.View Image
We did that regularly. The wall goes up as far as possible with three jacks. Brace the center jack area, which will be higher up on the gable. The two side jacks will have some travel left in them. Then put the center jack on a good sawhorse, and a little closer to the wall than was possible initially. Make sure you have at least two people who can keep the wall from falling off of the deck when it gets vertical. We would put a couple of 20 ft 2x4s up while the center jack was being moved, with about five nails in the end of each in a close pattern so they can allow a little movement, yet still hold. When the jacks start going up again, the whole crew is there to jack, brace, align, and nail quickly.
This whole thing works safely because the wall gets lighter from the perspective of the jacks as it goes up and more of the load is transmitted to the deck through the base. Also, this is one case where you want to make sure you have the bottom plate toenailed and strapped in securely so it doesn't go sliding off. I know lots of guys get a little slack in judgment when raising short walls and don't secure the base.
I have even done this working alone by putting blocking on the walls that will align the gable wall correctly. I used chains to limit the travel of the walls to vertical so I wouldn't need braces. I would not recommend this to everyone. You have to be very careful and need to have enough math skills to figure out the details.
Well, I took the advice of everyone and got a boom truck to help lift the wall. The regular lumberyard guy came and actually did it for free so it worked out great. Only two of us were there and everything went well. Would never try anything else other than a crane/boom truck again. Here are some pics of the wall being raised and me climbing to the top afterwards.
your headers dont look right
What part of them?
Headers may be fine, depending what load they are supposed to carry
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Carrying a 30' span 9/12 roof with eastern Canadian snow loads. The headers are done to our standards and techniques around here anyways.
And nobody got hurt. The always-preferred ending.
Thanks for sharing. I used a method from one of the early FineHomebuildings, tractor and cable. The article was titled "Solo Timber-Raising", which is what I was doing. Hydraulics are easier.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Good decision, including asking for help from your supplier.
I'd like to see a brace off the high wall's top plate, over to the exterior wall which runs perpendicular. That high wall may not stay put, as is, if it gets hit by any kind of wind load (see short story in my previous post :-) ).
Edited 7/1/2007 12:27 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Thanks for the advice, I am watching the wind closely. It is tied in pretty well to the two perpendicular walls going towards the back as high as 10' up. We will be putting the second floor on to the left of the wall tomorrow and will be better able to tie it in then.
Thanks again.
Where is your diagonal shear bracing? The osb has to be on the studs to count
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After sheathing the first wall that we built, we used hydraulics to test it for racking and shear strength and it was very sturdy. The OSB is spiked through the foam into the studs. I researched heavily if anyone has put OSB over foam instead of foam over OSB before and couldn't find any answers. We have used foam over plywood before but after nailing on braces and trying to keep tyvek on temporarily, the foam and tyvek ends up with alot of damage.This method surprised us how strong it was.
You must not have inspections there.I don't either, but I do know that the shear depends on the fasteners ability to resist flex at that joint. With direct contact, the nail nearly needs to be cut off, but with one or two inhes of foam between, all it has to do is bend for the wall to lose the battle. I suggest strongly that you do one of two things - either pass a law agaainst wind and earthquakes in your locality, or get some metal x-bracing to let in on the interior
edit - I notice no fireblocking either in that wall.Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 7/1/2007 1:12 pm ET by Piffin
It also looks like somebody got off layout on the right side of that door openning...I have a Q on the headers. Not that they are singles. That is fine when they are designed and sized for whatever load they hold, but about the fact that the door has LVL while the windows look like solid lumber. But both appear to be about 4'8" to 5' wide. Unless the roof will be doing something extremely interesting there, all three opennings have similar loads and similar widths so they should have same header sizing.
Why the difference?
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No, no inspections here. I have been considering adding some of the Simpson ties for peace of mind but may opt of the interior let in braces. Some research ive read shows that metal braces can fail or snap quite easily.
I am not an expert on wall strengths obviously but research that I've read which recommends a 4x8 sheet of plywood or OSB placed vertically at either end of a wall is double the necessary shear strength for a wall assembly. Something like 3,000 lbs of resistence per sheet. I am pretty confident the wall would more than withstand this amount especially after a second floor and rafters are tied in and drywall and either fiber cement or wood siding are both fastened to studs. About the headers, the LVL stuff was extra that we had lying around that wasnt large enough for anything else, and given that it was the biggest opening, I think 71 inches, it suited there the best. The top headers are double 2x10 and the bottoms are just single as the load is already transferred to the jacks.Edit- I am also adding timber beams across the middle of large walls like this that will be bolted/screwed to the studs and tied into the walls in the corners once it has reached that stage.
Edited 7/1/2007 1:43 pm ET by PEI
I'm no fan of let-in metal bracing either but it will sure add to what you have now. You make a decent point comparing two end panels vs the whole wall your way. Would be interesting to see objective test results
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PEI
Congratulations on taking the safe(smart) way out, no accidents, no headaches, job well done.
I just finished residing a home that was originally done with metal diagonals and 1" foam, no plywood. Walls were either built 1 1/2 out of level, or the bracing let go. This was not one of the prettiest framing jobs I've ever seen. The siding was rough sawn 1 x 8 put on like clapboards blind nailed with 20 d commons.
Home was built in 1982, so it has stood the test of time.
Greg in Connecticut
good job. When my carpenter came across a similar situation, he stick built the wall in place.
In NC, they require purlins if > 10' wall height.
PEI,
Use a telehandler. Lull is a common name JLG, Skytrack, Ingersol Rand is the brand I sell.. .. piece of cake.. then start building with telehandlers, they honestly save you over 20% of the time it takes to build without one.. and you get to reduce your workforce by 20% while building 20% faster.
Once you've built with one I promise you the question you will ask yourself is why didn't you do this sooner.. They pay for themselves while you are making payments and last 20 to 25 years.. so the last 15 to 20 years is free.. they always are on the job, never argue with the boss, never fail to show up, have never filed a workmans comp claim, or gotten drunk on the job.. they won't ask for a pay raise and love to be worked hard..