Hello Everyone,
My name is Fil (aka spaceghost) and I live in Yonkers, a city right outside of NYC. My wife and I are renting for two more years until she finishes her fellowship training and then we plan to buy a place, and this is where all the confusion begins. Our goal is to purchase a rather decrepit house and completely revamp it by working with an architect, and a builder. I have no idea how or where to start with all of this.
I have another two years before we get involved in this so I am slowly learning about building, architecture, and so forth. I feel rather overwhelmed with how to go about this entire process. I know that there isn’t a standard blueprint for all of this, but if anyone has any guidance, or suggestions then I would greatly appreciate atleast telling me what direction to begin with. The only thing I do know is what my budget is going to be and what features I would like to have in a house.
Thanks!
Spaceghost
p.s. Sorry about the nebulous post.
Replies
One thing I tell young folks I'll pass on to you... "Never buy a house older than you are." Today's lumber is a different demention than what was a centery ago for one reason. I grew-up in a house built in 1901, the work was never ending. I was fixing that house since my trade/high school days till my mother sold it when I was 41.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Building as thou art paranoid never harmed anyone.
this can be done, but you may end up with a closer relationship with the house than with your wife unless both of you like getting your hands dirty, so keep that in mind.
As a general rule, it will cost more to buy and renovate an old house than to build or buy a newer one, so measure that fact against your "budget" Add at least 20% and probably 50% to what you first think the budget should be. it is in the nature of renovation work.
My folks bought their first house when I was about 5-6YO. It had been started in 1832 and Dad always siad"...it ain't finished yet!"
But for the most part, they remodeled the kitchen, resided and roofed and replaced a furnace, and then it was fine till they sold it twenty years later
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I think you are to be commended for your choice. It is a very difficult task to rehab a house. There is a whole industry devoted to just that! I think you need to start with building a relationship with an Architect. Do you know any? Set up some appointments with a few and tell them your situation, and maybe they can show you some of their latest projects. That way you can get a sense of what they might do for you. Not all Architects are created equal! Maybe a friend has a name of a good one they used? Next, do the same with the builder. It is very importand to feel good about who you use for this project. You will be spending lots of time and money with these people, and I suggest you not give it all away lightly. Take your time, mull things over, and then look for the house. It sounds as though you have a specific home style in mind, but be available for change, at least in the real estate area. Once you get that far, the decisions of who to use for the project will probably make themselves. Each Architect and Builder has his/her own strengths, and it just might be pretty obvious, once you find the house. Try to keep an open mind, but always insist that this is your home, and you want it done your way.
Good luck.
I feel rather overwhelmed with how to go about this entire process.
Me too, and I've done a good number of them as a contractor. ;-)
Unless you're a serious history buff or have some other reason to marry an old house, don't do it. It's terribly expensive and time consuming.
Another consideration, one which will become more apparent over the next few years, energy efficiency will be of much greater importance as demand for oil increases and reserves dwindle. IMO, the smart move is to build new, using all the advances in building materials and techniques which are now available.
So spend some time here, check out all the folders and topics. I've been in the building trades for forty years and I learn something new here on BT, almost every day. Matter of fact, that's why I looked for this forum. I'm about to build a new home for myself and I want to learn what new materials and methods are working well.
If your motivated to own a unique home, there are lots of alternatives under discussion here..from underground homes to tree houses and everything in between.
Best wishes...
I wouldn't do it. You both are going to be busy, and a major rehab will leave your house almost uninhabitable for long periods (think YEARS!).
Buy a house you're happy with, in the low end of its neighborhood, and improve it in small steps so it moves towards the high end of its neighborhood. Think kitchen remodel, pause, bath remodel, pause, etc.
Brooks
I've rehabbed several houses I've lived in over the years and, IF you and your wife are both enthusiastic partners in the adventure (a big "if" -- lots of marital dischord arises from home renovation), this can be a fun and satisfying endeavor. My advice is to have your architect involved from the beginning, including looking at any house you are close to pulling the trigger on. He can give you realistic estimates on what to watch out for in any given house and an idea of what's possible within your budgetary constraints.
These projects are often done a little at a time, especially if you are doing much or all the work yourselves, or if the budget dictates it. If that's your plan, it's important not to start any work until you have a plan for the complete house. Otherwise, you'll end up tearing out new work that conflicts with a later project. You know, "We'll need to put a door there -- right where we just installed $3,000 worth of cabinets on the other side of the wall". This also helps keep you focused on a goal with an endpoint, instead of embarking on a never-ending project.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to do this?
Hi Everyone,
So far the advice you have all given me has been fantastic. I should have elaborated a little bit more. My wife and I are both rather serious (but not 100% committed) to staying in the NYC area. Unfortunately there is NO land for sale in the greater NYC area. NYC is 8.6 million people and the greater metropolitan area is 24.5 million people. We both love it here but for work reasons we have to select a suburb district that is relatively close to the city. That translates to living in a suburb that is already established.
This is the primary reason why we want to purchase a place that we can rennovate to our standards. I forgot to mention that we will not be doing the renovation but will hire a contractor who will do the work. We are both quite busy working professionals and wouldn't have the time nor the know-how to do this.
So that is my situation. My goal is to somehow pull this off in a couple of years, and for now to educate myself as much as possible.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind purchasing something and essentially ripping out 90% of it, leaving the foundation and starting from scratch.
Thanks and keep the advice coming!Spaceghost
Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind purchasing something and essentially ripping out 90% of it, leaving the foundation and starting from scratch.
That's a good plan but rip out the foundation too. It won't cost much more to do it and you'll be free to begin new.
The obvious choice of places is a run down house on a standard size or wider lot in a good neighborhood.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind purchasing something and essentially ripping out 90% of it, leaving the foundation and starting from scratch.
Much of our current business is extensive remodeling and it isn't an exageration to say it can be more costly per sqft than tearing down and rebuilding. We tend toward demo as much as possible and rebuild with new materials, even if the design remains the same.
The problem with buying old houses and tearing them down to the foundation is that few old foundations are worth keeping, so you just bought an expensive lot.
To make it work financially, especially since a contractor has to be paid, look for the buildings that are in great shape, but lend themselves to easily modified floorplans. The main problem is that you need to find someone with the expertise needed to judge the structural condition of the house. It would be ideal to get a remodeling contractor or house inspector with construction knowledge in on the house selection.
I think it's completely unrealistic to think you're producing your own version of "This Old House" and the whole thing can be economically stripped down and rebuilt as easily as they make it seem. It's very important to separate TV shows from reality.
There are old houses with great structural construction, but they are the minority.
Our next project is a total gut of an existing older home. It's taking $20k to lift it and another $30k to replace the foundation.
You also might consider old commercial space. It often has large open space that is easily converted and enough room that when everything gets firred out and broken up with new framing there's still enough room to live in. One of the nicest homes I've ever set foot in is located in a historic distric between a bank and coffee shop. The construction is as nice as any custom home anywhere. They started with probably 6,000 sqft of old bar and office space.
Personally, I love the style of old homes, but would much rather build a new home with an old design than remodel.
Best of luck.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Hi Don,
Your advice is fantastic and I think you pointed me to some new things to think about. I think you are right that I should find a contractor or structural engineer to be part of the purchasing committee.
I love living in the NYC area but as you know real estate here is insanely expensive. To purchase a crappy house you are looking at $400k and this is something in a good neighborhood that you can rip, and start from scratch so yes you are paying $400k just for a lot AND those are RARE to find. To purchase something thats adequate and can have another story to built on top of starts at around $500k.
I love the U.S. but I am particularly a happy boy with a happy wife here in NYC area. There is just so much stuff to do and our weekends are spent enjoying all aspects of the city. The only caveat to all of this is that its damn expensive living here. We both make good money but aren't that happy on how much we will have to dish out.
Thanks again for your time and advice.
Filip
space..at least youre living in a realistic world cuz you're more than right about the prices to live in NY...EVERYTHING is outta orbit from decent houses to every type of insurance to to the taxes to going to the movies.
What I kept in mind from my first house was not worry about what or where the house was but rather how much I could make from it to get me to my second house.
A good money maker will put you in the great school district which is the A-#1 thing you have to look for. Knowing you're not going to be in a house that isn't your dream house forever eases the realities of how expensive everything is because you know it'll take you with more money and more leave you with more knowlede and with more time to look around and educate yourself rather than overpaying for something thats not a great investment.
Compromise is key in starting out in this.
We're at the point now where we've just about had it and after 56 years of living in NY we're pretty certain we'll be moving West...which by the way is not much cheaper but you do get a bit more for your money I think and the atmosphere in the air is better in all aspects from the weather to the tempermant of the people....I think.
Good luck dude
andy..
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
to the tempermant of the people....I think.
You will SO, be back!
Aint met a sole who's moved out there and stayed.
We'll leave a light on for ya.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Aint met a sole who's moved out there and stayed.
Makes perfect sense, when you think about it. ;-)
(Smiley edit)
Edited 5/22/2007 10:28 am ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
LOL. I guess thats true.
But in all seriousness......anyone I know that moved out there (From NY) came RUNNING back.
5 yrs. seems to be the max.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
But in all seriousness......anyone I know that moved out there (From NY) came RUNNING back.
5 yrs. seems to be the max.
Yeah, the winters in the South West are very easy to take, daytime highs in the sixties and seventies. But come summer, I want to be back in the woods upstate, living with all that nature provides.
Doesn't really matter if I come back...or not. I just like the journey. I get sick (as you might be able to tell) of being planted in the same place too long. I like new projects and experiances so its all good.
Wouldn't do Southern Cali...I'd be doing 1 1/2 hrs North of SF. I know one thing...the weather there is perfect if nothing else.
I think people that move from NY come back cuz thats how NY'ers are. I moved to Virginia once for over a year and as pretty as it was I came back...but then again Virginia is like moving to another country coming from NY. After all I was born down the Lower East side then Queens then LI...so I'm a true NY'er....and the south is literally not even part of my vocabulary, y'all...ewwww
Its all good : )
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
>I just like the journey.<
Climbing a Cascade hill a while back an old geezer that was with me (and kicking my butt) told be about an old proverb. The journey is the destination. Changed my whole outlook on summitting in a hurry and got me to start looking around.
You're gettin' it ... that's the key. It can be done anywhere. Whatever floats your boat really but to me its when you feel tied to anything and are too hesitant to let go ... that's when ... well.. a saying I made up for me is..."you can let life walk into you, or you can walk into life".
life'll walk into you no matter what but if you're afraid to take risks than you loose out on a lot...that's just my personal opinion and so far, so good. The only thing I'm ever afraid of is...boredom...so I find I have to watch myself so as not to move too fast...thats what I've learned about myself.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You can let life walk into you, or you can walk into life.
Now that's a classic. I'll be using it I hope you know.
Likewise I can't imagine living on your planet... I love the south. Just so you will know that we do have something in common though... The DW and I have been in the same house for 7.5 yrs and she wants to repaint but I want to get (build) another...
I don't have "a" planet <G>...I just like living on different ones.
The South was too extreme for me for too long...nothing against it what so ever..The culture was way too different from whats inbred in me to spend more than a year or so there. Very cool place though...to visit...lol
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
BTW - I'm from virginia. And it's a good place to be from... Where in VA were you?
I have a lot of good stories from when I lived there many moons ago.
I lived in Lovingston and Arrington off rt 29 tween Charlotsville and Lynchberg.
I eventually moved up top this mtn in Lovingston to an incredable area on the tipy top of the mtn. A good 45 min walk to the nearest road.
An old woman lived there her whole life..Bessie Terry..and I stayed up there with Bessie for almost a year and I worked in Charlotsville doing carpentry on a crew.....long story...I got sick of that twangin'...lol.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'll bet that was a culture shock - as I said... a different planet. I've always lived near metropolitan areas, so maybe the best of both worlds...
I remember looking at pics of your current place. It looked kinda woodsy and rural. Must be a rare thing on Long Island?
Well...I'm on Long Island....just up the way from you...puttin' mine on the market in August if yer interested : ) cept' you won't need to work on it...I'm doing the finishing touches now...see my website below.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hi Andy,
Wow those houses are beautiful but unfortunately my wife and I need to be closer to Columbia Presby hospital as thats where she works so LI is a bit too far. The other thing is we are euro trash so we are looking for something different. Though I have to say that both of your properties are absolutely beautiful.
My wife still has two years in her fellowship before we can go forward with our dream house.
Filip
I'm on my third renovation of an old house...don't really know when I will finish this one (four years into it and maybe another four years to go).
Read "Renovating Old Houses" by Nash (Taunton Press). You can order it from the Bookstore here.
You may also want to read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Gutted-Down-Studs-House-Marriage/dp/1582345740/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_1_img/103-5614010-0329436
Welcome.
I'd say the key thing is location. Buy a place in a good or improving neighborhood.
Second, don't get too ambitious. Keep the size small enough for you to handle.
Third, make sure the place is structurally sound. Items like foundations and brickwork are very expensive to fix.
Hudson Valley Carpenter said, "Unless you're a serious history buff or have some other reason to marry an old house, don't do it. It's terribly expensive and time consuming."
That's a good point, and it seems a lot of people are warning you against taking on an old "fixer upper." It's very true that an old house will consume vast amounts of time and money. And unless both spouses have a shared interest and common goals and realistic expectations, it can be disastrous for a marriage.
But I'll point out that at age 24 I bought an old house. At the time I had no particular interest in historic architecture or any of the building trades, either.
But that purchase eventually led to a lifelong passion for history, for architecture, for craftsmanship. It led to many new and close personal friendships. It fueled my love of antique furniture and inspired countless hours of fascinating research. That first house led to an enrichment to my life that is truly immeasurable.
And, a quarter century later, it eventually led to a new career.
I should also point out that I was single when I bought that first house. Four houses and two kids later, I was single again (my first wife now has a nice, comfortable suburban house that's younger than her).
I now share house number five with a wife who also shares my passion for historic buildings. That, as mentioned previously, is essential.
Allen
Howdy neighbor....I'm right down the road in Pelham.
My first question regarding this project would be, where are you looking to buy?
As you know, real estate in our neck-of-the-wood is off the charts. Not saying you won't find something reasonable, just don't know that it would be a wise financial decision for these parts.
Even "up the line" is getting out of hand when it comes to"fixer-uppers".
You looking to stay local, or are you willing to move?
I don't know about contacting an archy or builder just yet. I doubt anyones got the time to do any "hand holding" for someone a few years out just now.
As the time aproaches though, feel free to give me a holler. I work with several architects that would be ideal for your project.
Best of luck!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
theres a thread going on here titled "we just bought a new house" i can't find it but maybe someone can and tell you the link. it is must read for you,they also have a blog going on thats interesting to follow.http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/03/ode-to-double-hungs.html.
i live in house that we have rehab hard. listen to what everyone is saying about fixing old will cost more than a new one. first item architect there goes 20k that with a new house you won't need,the list goes on and on. but i will say this nobody is going to drive down the block and see another one like mine painted a different color. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
86536.1 is the link to just bought a new old house that Larry mentioned.
I'll venture to say that a majority of marriages that start an old house rehab and live in it at the same time end up in divorce. Just a wild guess but it's one of the more contentious issues a marriage can (try to) endure. (this form observations and not actually living it.)
>These projects are often done a little at a time, especially if you are doing much or >all the work yourselves, or if the budget dictates it. If that's your plan, it's important >not to start any work until you have a plan for the complete house. Otherwise, you'll >end up tearing out new work that conflicts with a later project. You know, "We'll >need to put a door there -- right where we just installed $3,000 worth of cabinets >on the other side of the wall". This also helps keep you focused on a goal with an >endpoint, instead of embarking on a never-ending project.
This is good advice. I'm on my second live-in/fixup, and wish I'd heeded this advice. When you get the house, get with archy to plan,plan,plan before a hammer is swung.
To borrow from the SCUBA divers, "Plan your dive and dive your plan."
It's good that you're starting investigating with a couple years leeway. Would have to agree with most of the previous comments. It's a commitment to do what you're proposing. If you're serious though, I'd check out your local bookstore for books on renovations and loft conversions as examples. Just perused some at Barnes and Nobel last week, there were several good ones. Also look through the Photo Gallery of Breaktime for some good process photos of various renovation projects, to see what you'll be in for.
We were supposed to finish our live-in rehab about two years ago. We may be done in four more. With an 11-month old now in the house, it's much harder to do.
After you're into it a while and some things get done, it suddenly becomes easy to put something off. It started happening to me and I knew I was getting burnt out. It's really impossible to sit down and write down everything I need to do. And I can't escape it, because I live in it!
But I love it, despite the expense and headaches. I won't do a live-in rehab again, but I'd do this one all over again.
"I wanna be a race car passenger. You know, the guy that bugs the driver. Say, man, can I stick my feet out the window? Do we have to keep going in circles? Mind if I turn on the radio? Boy, you really like Tide."
Interesting advice you've gotten here-
As an encouragement, my wife and I bought a house together (before we were married, when I was 25). We completely remodled it over about 3 years, and then we moved away for her grad school. I'm still not completely done with the house (we're renting it out now), but that's ok- something to look forward to when we go back. My wife is a very understanding woman though, and she did a lot of the work too.
I'd study the order that houses are built in, and how the structure affects the finishes. It's vital to have an idea of how things build upon each other.
The books that Basswood recommended are very good. Renovation, from Taunton press, is another good book. You should spend a lot of time researching who will do the work, if it's not you- you might as well start that research before you need a GC.
Leave some room in your budget, and think about what you need vs. what you want. I think people end up happier with a small house completed the way they want than they do with a half finished large house, a divorce, and a lot of debt.
zak
Edit: and what's this about not owning a house older than you are? The house we bought was 90 years old when I was 26. I loved it.
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Edited 5/22/2007 12:14 am by zak
Why would you need an archy when you already have the house? Save the money for your GC.
Read FHB for the next two years and lurk on this forum. Visit JLC forum but don't ask any questions there :)
Finally, get over the love affair with NYC area. It's causing you to make irrational decisions.
Thanks MG for the advice. We are not 100% certain that we will stay here but my wife and I both make good money for the NYC area so because we can afford it, we would like to give it a shot. I am not stubborn to say that no matter what, we will stay here and probably when we are old we will look elsewhere. For now, at the age of 32 and with two more years to go before she finishes her fellowship, I am going to do my damn best to educate myself as to what can be done.
I actually picked up a very decent amount from this discussion with everyone so far. My biggest realization and an eye opening was taking the advice of NOT looking for a decrepit home but trying to find land. Land here is very scarce and costly, bit from what I gather, I will be better off paying $400k for a quarter or third of an empty acre, then paying $400k for that land with a crappy house on it.
My intention is NOT to preserve a traditional home but rather to almost demolish the thing and start from scratch. My tastes are very contemporary, euro trash almost, so I will probably not find anything of interest.
Thanks again everyone for the advice. I know some of it has been discouraging but many of you gave me some VERY solid guidance. To recap, here are some key things I learned (and thank you everyone again!!):
assemble a team of people I will want to work with before buying the place
when ready to purchase, make sure I have a team of an architect and a contractor so that they can look at a house and tell me what is and isn't feasible
I am better off starting with a blank canvas (empty land) if possible
make sure all plans are more or less finalized before going forward with the construction.
Tell my wife and my kid how much I love them every day so that they don't get discouraged and run away from me during this insane process ;)
Keep the advice coming if you have anything else!
Spaceghost!
You made a good summation but missed one significant point. Although it would be easier to begin with an empty lot, as you know they are hard to find. The cost to demo an old place is not prohibitive, particularly if you find one in a great neighborhood.
New York City has some interesting residential pockets, unexpected places where generations of people have lived in "splendid isolation". There's some areas in the Bronx, near Eastchester bay, for example. Though it's been many years since I've been there, I'm sure they still retain their character.
One other thing worth investigating. There may be houses owned by HUD or some other federal and/or state government agencies, buildings which are part of an economic development program. It's worth spending some time on their web sites, seeing what's available.
Best wishes
Hi Hudson Valley Carpenter,
I never heard of these things (HUD, etc.). These things you mention, are they in bad neighborhoods? What makes them a possible consideration? We have an 8 month old daughter and wish to have another kid in a few years so I would like to already plant myself in well to do neighborhood or one that is in semi-good transition point. I can't take a risk at a neighborhood that potentially could get better.
If you can spend another minute or two... I'd appreciate it!
Thanks,
Spaceghost
http://www.usa.gov/
There's the directory of federal government offices. HUD stands for "housing and urban development". The reason I mention them is because, among other supportive programs, that agency buys and sells urban real estate. They probably don't own much in the kind of neighborhood that you're interested in but...it's still worth a look, just because you'll learn something and it'll probably open other doors for you. Same thing for New York State. Just use http://www.google.com to search for NYS's directory of agencies.
The specific neighborhood I mentioned is one of the "pockets" of nice homes that can be found in peculiar places, around NYC. If you don't own a car, I'd suggest that you make a list and get maps http://www.mapquest.com of several neighborhoods you'd like to see, then rent a car on Sunday and drive around to them.
If you need a great family rental area right now, take the tram to Roosevelt Island and have a look around. The last I heard, it's pleasant and safe. That's one of those "splendid isolation" places, right in the heart of it all.
I haven't lived or worked in NYC in many years. So I'm only able to offer a few memories and fairly recent reports from friends who live there.
Best wishes and please post some pictures of any interesting old neigborhoods you find. New neighborhoods too.
Just out of curiosity, how do you know WHERE you will be buying? What type of fellowship does your wife have?
Personally, I like to encourage people to buy and renovate older homes, as I think they are a major resource that is getting wasted. A recent article I read about real estate prices in inner cities is that homes can be purchased there for less than the cost of a new home in the suburbs. Of course this was a generalized global statement, it might no apply to your area. But I know in Columbus, you can get much more house (probably less land) at a lower price if you are willing to live in the city.
Hi Bryan,
I certainly don't mind sharing some of this information with you guys. My wife is doing a medical fellowship in pediatric anesthesiology. She might even further specialize in cardiac pediatric anesthesia. As a doctor she will be making good money but not great money as we want to stay in the NYC area and some metropolitan areas of the U.S. pay well but are a bit flooded with doctors (supply vs. demand).
We both prefer modern (dwell magazine style) houses. We like it clean, relatively simple living with nice spaces and a place that is overall eco-friendly. With that said if we were to purchase an older house we might try to preserve the exterior, but the interior would be completely our style.
Prior to living in NYC we lived in Pittburgh which I think is a great city and like all cities it has pluses and minuses. One of its pluses was the amout of house you could get. For $500k you could get a beautiful home with an acre or so of property and all the other goodies. Here for $500k you can get a decrepit home built in the 50s with a fourth or fifth of an acre.
Everybody has a place they call home and for me its NYC area. Though after reading all of these forum feedbacks, it seems that we are better off starting with a blank canvas instead of trying to restore a home.
"we lived in Pittburgh which I think is a great city and like all cities it has pluses and minuses."
Hey. I was right with ya until you got to the "minuses" part!
Oh, I get it now . . . you must be a baseball fan.
;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Oh, I get it now . . . you must be a baseball fan.That, or Buck was his neighbor.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Believe me Matt, I LOOOVE Pittsburgh. For my wife being in the medical profession and living in one of the most obese cities did get to her. Pittsburgh has too much of a sedentary lifestyle. Every other person drives an SUV, is a bit too religious and conservative for me, and I think recycling is as exotic of a word there as it gets. then there is the restaurant sitaution; quantity not quality. Very few top notch restaurants.
Bottom line, great city, loved it there, but still has some growing up to do. If anyone asks me if they should consider living in Pittsburgh, I would tell them its a win/win/win sitaution. Like every city, there are pluses and minuses. Oh, and I am just being blunt and honest. Believe me I got many things to say about NYC too despite the fact that I wish to stay here. Hell, why do I need a house here when I can live in my car especially during traffic hours!! ;)
Keep Smilin' Matt, Steelers Rock!
Spaceghost
Go and work for a builder/renovator even part time see if you can get a feel for it and an understnding ,it's hard work