First time poster (I usually hang out at Knots) looking for some advice.
I’m just finishing up having the outside of my house painted. Part of the project included removing some unwanted plants and tearing out the cracked, broken tile on the front stoop. Underneath I found the concrete landing cracked and sunken in places with a big gap leading under the house, a great place for water to channel and cause problems underneath.
On the friendly (and usually welcome) advice of two of my neighbors, one a gifted cabinetmaker and the other a high end contractor, I think I’m going to have the old concrete stoop and walkway up to it demo’ed and repoured. But I’m trying to figure out how to finish it vs. just leaving it as an uninteresting grey poured slab.
One idea I had was to build a landing (over the poured concrete) of ipé decking. This wood is also known as Brazilian walnut or sometimes ironwood (though it’s not related to either true walnut or ironwood). It is incredibly dense and supposed to be very resistant to rot and decay. And I like the warmth and look of real wood (that’s why I’m usually on the Knots board). My brother, who lives in Portland, OR, rebuilt the steps and floor of his front porch using ipé and reports good results after a few years.
But my neighbors are advising against using any kind of wood, tropical hardwood or otherwise or even a man-made composite like Trex. We are in So. California and the stoop is south facing though partially protected by nearby walls that shadow the area. They suggest sticking with concrete or tile.
I respect their experienced opinion but I also know my brother (and other Northwesterners) wouldn’t choose a material that was prone to fail in that much harsher environment (though our conditions can be tough here with the sun and the rains we’ve had this year).
So, after that long-winded run up: what has been your experiences with ipé? Is it worth considering as a material for this application? Or should I follow my neighbors’ words of wisdom and stay away from anything that will require maintenance and upkeep? Any and all advise based on experience is gratefully welcomed.
Replies
I'm a huge fan of Ipe ... I've used it on 2 projects similar to what you are describing - in both cases I used Azek for risers & wrapped around the band. It's a nice sharp look and should last forever, although my climate isn't as hot as yours.
Bill W said:"I used Azek for risers & wrapped around the band"Forgive my ignorance. What is Azek and what do you mean by wrapped around the band? Thanks.
Azek is pvc wood. Unlike Trex etc that is a combination of wood chips and plastic binders, Azek is essentially all pvc. Comes in white. Zero maintenance. Thermal expansion is a concern, but moisture doesn't affect it.
He uses it as a veneer to cover the deck joists and other structure.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Ian - Sorry my first post was a little cryptic. As someone else pointed out, Azek is one brand name of PVC trim that is starting to become more widely used. It's expensive, but impervious to the elements (except for a tendency to expand / contract with temperature, unlike wood). I think it's a good solution for things like stair risers that get exposed to a lot of moisture in this climate (snow on stairs), and take a beating from feet (the color is integral).
Maybe it's not called a band, but that's what I call the piece of trim wrapped around my porch. A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a couple recent examples.
hmmmm ... no pictures ... trying again ...
Bill,
Your second pic shows what I was going to suggest for the walkway - pavers instead of concrete. There are so many choices, and they all look great! The stoop can be pavers as well, or the Ipe. All depends on the desired look. I've attached a pic of my new walkway, that replaced the old entrance (up the driveway - ugly and boring).
I do like the look of the Azek and the way it sets off against the Ipe. They are about to pour the footers for my new deck (Machiche, similar to Ipe but a buck a linear foot cheaper) and you've got me thinking about the risers. I was going to use the same wood but since the posts will be painted the Azek could work very nicely.
Wayne
Some of the confusion could be from using the word stoop. That means different things to different people. Ipe is great wood.
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Let me clarify what I mean by "stoop". When one approaches my house along the tiled concrete walkway, one takes a step up on to a landing that is approx. 48" square and then one more step up over the threshlod of the front door. That landing is also concrete, though it is failing and will need to be removed and redone. The idea I had was to put ipé decking (1 x 4) over the 16 sq. ft. surface and the riser of the landing.
You, and others, say:"Ipe is great wood."Follow up question: how high on the list of delectables is it for termites? This is So. Cal and I already need to have my house periodically treated. Will this be a furter enticement to them?
Ipe` is the name of the wood. Ironwoods is a prioduct name registered trademark that it is sol under, but th eword ironwood has been applied to other woods in various times and places. Reason I say this to let you know you could Gogle the Ironwoods name and probably find something more specific.I doubt that termites would like Ipe` because it is fuill of mineral elements that are irritants. It is high in sulphur which resists rot. It also has some natural waxes that resist water penetration. It is very hardm strong, and dense. If I were a termite, i would look for something easier on my incisors. But we have no termites in my area, so I can't answer directly.
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They don't call it "Ironwood" for nothin.....it's virtually impervious to termites...much too dense for their taste. If you've never seen the stuff, get hold of a piece. Even a small sample, maybe 5/4x6x6 will give you a good indication of the weight of this wood.
Edited 5/6/2005 9:43 pm ET by Maker
I have used a piece or two
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dang piffin, thats nicer than my intirior floors look______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
yeah, burt your interior floors don't have a view of anything other than the soles of your paws
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Hey Piff how did ya fasten down that deck? And is there a finish on it in that photo?
It did get some penofin, but I can't remember if it had been hit yet when I shot that photo. the fasteners are SS trim heads from GRK CanadaOn another job curved se is my first attempt with ipe` and with Fypon several years ago now. Fypon bought the rights on that ophoto for advertising.
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That's a beautiful job. I'm very interested because I bought a house in Virginia, on a lake, that needs new decking. I was originally going to use composite, but I really don't like the looks of it. IPE is what I'm thinking now, but I really don't want to get involved with cutting biscuits to hide the fasteners. What size drill did you use and how deep did you sink the stainless steel screws? Continuing, did you wax when you cut to keep the ends from splitting? Finally, did you glue as well as screw? Looking foward to your answers. I'm certainly not against copying quality! Again, nice job. Also, Spacing? Does it shrink much?
The yellow post bases are for temporary safety. They are advertised in the trade journals, but I don't recal the name brand. Wouold probably work with tapcons but use waashers too.I countersink the screws just enough to hide the colour. I want as much friction.holding in the material as possible. Since this job is over EPDM ( you can search that here for more on the subject of decks over roofs) I do not want any chance of the tip of the screw coming through into the membrane roofing under. sDo I use about three lengths of screw sometimes to maximize hold down while minimizing risk. The drill size is dependent on the screw size. probably 1/8th inch or slightly less.For spacing, I just taack an 8d finish nail between boards. Ipe is very stable so it won't shrink or swell mmuch. the EB TY hidden fastener system is interesting, but I have not heard a lot of good about it except from the salesmen.
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I was looking at your pictures again and I have another question. What type of post base is that (yellow) in your 1st picture? Would that work on a concrete deck with tapcons? Different job than my 1st list of questions.
I'm resurrecting this thread from the past because I want you info on grk fasteners. Which ones do you use for Ipe and who is your source? Per 1000, how many break and are there any particulars for these screws to keep them from breaking other than pre drilling?Thanks.
I get my GRH from my local lumberyard, Viking in Belfast, Maine.I use the trimhead SS 1-1/4" to 1-3/4" depending... Most of our IPE` is over sleepers and an EPDM deck.Amt of breakage is very dependent on the predrilling. Maybe one or two per thousand with good predrill countersink and slightly over shank size in the IPE` but not deep in the PT sleeper under. We do get qa lot5 of the small T-10 or T-15 bits break though as the head shoulder hits the IPE`We have also used some Torx SS trimheads from Swanson but they break constantly in IPE` and that means a lot of getting the grinder out because a broken shaft with the metal standing out is not a good thing. The metal in the GRK is much better.
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Thanks for the info, your the go to person for grk info.take care.
now that I remembered to tell ya...
M2 steel or better machinest bits worked very nicely on the Ipe... almost the same wear time as carbide.. The M2 is a lot sharper than carbide and cuts very cleanly... I think you'll use 6 M2's to 5 carbides but even though it will be for less than half the total money...
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No Worries, Ian. I live in coastal San Diego County, the termite capital of California. They will not eat ipe. My ipe deck is 6 years old, no finish, simply gorgeous. I like the look of weathered wood, so long as is free of splits and checks. That is what I have: perfect wood with a weathered patina.If you screw fasten it, the clearance hole has to let a screw just drop through with NO engagement of the threads.Bill
I would suggest you belay repouring the stoop.
Instead of repouring it, and laying the ipe on top, just build the new stoop from ipe.
Ask Pro-Dek for framing and building suggestions.
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