I know this can be a complicated question. What is the easiest way to determine if a wall is load bearing? The wall is on the first floor of a 2 story that has a full basement. The joists in the basement (directly under the wall in question) run parallel to the wall, however the joist under the wall in question is doubled (2 2×6’s). The joists in the second floor ceiling (one floor ABOVE the wall) are also parallel. I can’t see the joists directly above the wall due to ceiling/floor covering. The wall that is at a 90 degree angle to the wall in question sits over a beam in the basement ceiling that is supported by columns to a footing so it seems that it is definitely load bearing. Could both walls be load bearing? Do I need to make a hole to see the joists directly above the wall? If they are also parallel to the wall does that make the wall non-load bearing? Hope I didn’t make this too confusing.
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yeh. its a bit confusing but.....MAke holes and be sure. Any wall below the walls in question should have at least a dbl. 2x below it.
Be bearing......roarrrrrrr
Namaste
andy
"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is."
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Ah, yes. The old bearing wall question. It does come up quite often, and it takes a lot of explaining, so I've been keeping a stock answer that I update from time to time. Here's today's revised version. Corrections and suggestions from the more experienced among you are eagerly solicited:
How to identify bearing walls:
When somebody asks how to identify load bearing walls, it's usually
because they're thinking of removing a wall or cutting a big hole in
one. That can be serious business, not something that can be designed
adequately by using a FAQ from the internet. The following discussion
may be useful for the preliminary speculation phase of such a project,
but don't rely on it for anything more.
Removing a load bearing wall is not impossible, but it is more
expensive. Often much more expensive. It will require some sort of
substitute support for the weight it carried, usually a beam. Often
this beam will have to be large enough that it extends downward from
the ceiling fairly far. On a top floor, you may be able to hide it in
the attic, and hang the ceiling joists from the side of it, or even
from the bottom. But often the ugly beam sticking down, which always
looks like you took out a wall, defeats the architectural purpose of
removing the wall in the first place.
You'll also have to provide adequate support under the ends of the
beam, because the load that was formerly distributed along the length
of the wall is now concentrated there. This load has to be supported
all the way down to the ground.
The official code definition of a bearing wall is any wall that
supports 100 pounds or more per foot of length, and any masonry wall
that supports any additional masonry above its ceiling level. That's
not particularly practical or helpful, since there's no instrument to
measure the weight on the top plate of a wall.
In general, you have to look at what the wall supports, and what
supports it. Walls that are parallel to the joists above are usually
but not always non-bearing. On my top floor, I have a wall parallel
to the joists that supports the rafter tails of a decorative roof
section. On the top floor, always look in the attic to see if the
wall in question carries any roof load. Then look to see if it
supports ceiling joists. If the joist tails rest on a wall, it's
almost always bearing. I have one exception to that upstairs, where
the ceiling joist tails rest on a non-bearing 2x3 wall that was the
partition between two closets, each 10 feet by 27 inches. On each
side, the real bearing walls are only 27 inches from this partition
wall. They form the sides of the stairwell.
Taking that idea a bit farther, you may want to analyse the whole
house, figuring out from the top down how the weight of all the
materials and contents are supported all the way down to the ground.
That's the way engineers design structures, from the top down. They
have to do it that way, because they can't design any part of the
structure until they know the weight of the stuff it supports.
In the past, building codes used to allow 2x3's for non-bearing walls.
Now 2x4's are the minimum for all walls. I know that was changed
prior to 1971, but I'm not sure how far prior. It's possible that
you'll find a load bearing 2x3 wall if bootleg remodeling removed a
nearby bearing wall.
For ground floor walls, look in the crawl space or basement. A
bearing wall perpendicular to the joists should be no more than one
joist depth away from some sort of support -- a girder or cripple
wall. That's a code requirement for all walls, not just on the ground
floor. So, if your joists are 2x10's (actually 9 1/4"), and a wall is
10 inches away from the nearest support, it's probably not supposed to
be bearing. The exceptions are if the original design was done by an
engineer, or the building is old enough to pre-date that code.
In old houses, bearing walls parallel to the joists below may have no
extra support. In newer construction, they'll usually have a joist or
two under them. The best practice is two joists with space between
them for utilities to run into the wall without hacking up the
structure. As always, beware of bootleg jobs that may have
transferred loads to walls that legally shouldn't carry them.
The tough part comes when you have three or more stories, and you want
to work on the in-between floors. First, you should start from the
attic and work down, because any bearing wall up there has to be
supported by bearing walls all the way down. Then look in the crawl
or basement, and work your way up. As with the crawl space, the max
is one joist depth away from floor to floor, unless it's an engineered
design or an old building. Next you may need to do some exploratory
demolition of the ceiling to see what's on top of the wall in
question. Again you're looking for joist tails, this time floor joist
tails.
Finally, even if a wall appears to be non-bearing, if it's
perpendicular to the joists above, you have to determine the size of
those joists and the new distance they'll span if the wall is removed.
If there are no walls or roof load supported by those joists, you can
look in the span tables to see if the result will pass code. If they
support other parts of the structure, engineering calculations are
necessary.
Most people at this point should hire a structural engineer. If you
don't want to hire an engineer, get some engineering books from the
library. Unless you have a very strong technical and math background,
that kind of light reading will probably convince you to pay somebody
who already knows this stuff. Even if you have the ability to learn
enough for a simple job, an experienced engineer's second opinion may
well provide you with a more cost-effective solution and save you more
than the engineer's fee.
What you may be able to do for yourself is measure and draw. If you
can make good accurate measurements and drawings of what you have and
how you want to change it, you may find an engineer who will do your
job from your drawings, without the expense of a site visit. Some will
even do simple jobs via fax.
Also, non-bearing is merely a legal term used in codes. It doesn't
mean that the wall in question has no structural role. Gravity
doesn't care whether we call a wall bearing or not. After it's gone,
the floor above may be less solid feeling, even though it still passes
code.
(Bearing Wall FAQ revised March 12, 2003)
-- J.S.
Or, as I like to call it, FAQ # 3. Excellent summary....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
John Sprung gave you a lot of useful info. And as John pointed out, usually when someone wants to know whether a wall is load bearing or not, it is because they intend to remove all or part of it....so here is my short answer to your question.
Since you obviously are unsure as to what constitutes a load bearing wall, and are untrained as to how to recognize a wall as such....do yourself a favor...contact a contractor or building inspector ( someone in the trades) who is knowledgeable in this respect, and let them inspect your wall .
Davo
> ...contact a contractor or building inspector ( someone in the trades) who is knowledgeable in this respect, and let them inspect your wall .
And pay them their hourly rate for their expertise. Please don't ask for a "free estimate" unless you really honestly intend to hire someone to do a job.
-- J.S.
One more thing I need to add to the FAQ: Most jurisdictions will require a licensed engineer's wet stamp on plans before they issue a permit for structural work. So even if you could learn enough to do it yourself, your local building department may not accept it because they don't have the resources to check your work.
-- J.S.
>> because they don't have the resources to check your work.
That raises a question. How much effort can the building department expend verifying that A) the engineer actually exists, and B) is actually licensed to practice in your jurisdiction?
I would think they probably have somebody sit at a computer and run the day's worth of stamps thru an online check with the state licensing bureau.
-- J.S.
The states list the status of PEs on the web. It is amazing how many engineers let their PE registration go. It was so bad (and high up in large firms) that NYSDOT began to require phot copies of current registrations in proposals, particularly for bridge inspection.
...that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Edited 3/14/2003 12:06:21 AM ET by Bungalow Jeff