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I’m talking about lunch/break trash – not scrap materials. Yes, I see this in the archives, but wanted to bring it up again. Why is it that so many subs can’t pick up their bottles, soda cans, McDonalds wrapers, etc? They leave it for the General, General’s guys, or homeowner to pick up after them.
Simply put – if you can’t pick up your trash –
b you are trash!
Sorry folks, spent part of today picking up after several subs.
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Replies
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They must be union-not in their job description.
Seriously tho, as a whole, our population is bombarded w/ all types of "trash"-billboards,signs,shopping malls,sub-divisions larger than some towns-we are on overload.What you refer to is more a lack of pride/responsibility in the face of all this,a symptom ,as it were.
Personally,I'm shaping punji sticks for those littering my favorite fishing hole...Best,LRZ.
*If you're the general, tell em. Don't surround yourself with people like that. Get a relationship with your subs and make em stick to it. And watch you're union namecalling lrz. Best of luck.
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WAS IT UNION NAME CALLING OR THE HARSH TRUTH. UNION TRADES MEN ARE SPOILED BY THERE UNION LABORERS. WHO WIPE UP BEHIND THEM. NOT MY JOB ATTIITUDE IS REALLY THE ATTTITTUDE.
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Roger,
The caps lock key is on the left of your keyboard. Between the tab key and the shift key.
*hehehe Luka, but don't you mean ROGER? lol
*It has nothing to do with the union Roger. Who else do you want to try to belittle. Lazy littering dogs are everywhere. Think before you open your mouth.
*Union guys, you forgot to read the following "Seriously tho" after the "They must be union-not in their job description."Lighten up.Bob
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We had some painters who didn't think that cigarette butts were trash -- I don't understand that one. I just refused to pay the balance of the bill until they came back and picked up every last butt.
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I'm not a union guy, but I'm aware that unions provide many things, one of the things not provided, is a requirement to litter. Yes, some union guys litter , and some don't. Just like some non- union guys. I hate to generalize but if forced to My feeling is that non-union tends to let it slide more then union. After-all, they (non-union) are the ones that are riding on the wage scale fought for and won by union carpenters. If you do a study of what the union has done in general, their only "crime" has been to level the power disparity between management and labor. The market place does the rest. At no time will I say that unions are free from abuse or coruption, NOBODY is! Sorry I'm on my soap box, I just don't like to hear unions or any group trashed.
*Buy two cheap plastic garbage cans, one in and one outside. McDonalds bags will magically appear inside of these instead of scattered around the job site. DH
*Frenchy,I must respond to the commentsi After-all, they (non-union) are the ones that are riding on the wage scale fought for and won by union carpenters. If you do a study of what the union has done in general, their only "crime" has been to level the power disparity between management and labor. Regarding the first line, from where did you contrive such a ridiculous notion? Assuming this in fact were true, the increase in wages to non union workers would be more than offset by the increase in costs of goods and services that union shops provide to the market place. Unions are only beneficial to union members (that might not even be true). A more equitable distribution of wages and benefits could be determined by the free market. As to the second comment, unions are corrupt. Read Sammy the Bull's book on their control of the NYC construction market (hardly a research text but it explains union corruption in pretty simple terms). Their only effect in modern times has been detrimental to the free market. The centralization of control over labor allows it to happen. I know of no non union labor groups that have any power. Probably because there are none. Don't get me wrong, I love unions, just not labor ones.Then again, I may be an illiterate, uneducated moron. Or pro-union. What's the difference.Tom
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Like Calvin mentioned, if you are the "general", make the rules and make them stick to your subs, and whomever. I personally believe that throwing your trash around is a lack of respect, not only for the boss, but for the property owner and yourself too. If you don't have enough respect and discipline to pick up after yourself, how does that reflect upon the rest of your work? Its all attitude I've found, and if its piss poor don't ask to be shown the door because there are others who will comply with your wishes and want to earn a wage, union or non-union. It may seem trivial, "ah, whats one coke can and a cigar butt", how about being asked to come back to do a new job or an addition, or being able to ask for a higher fee, getting a good recommendation and so on? I know of one fellow who was asked not to come back for similar reasons, break out the violins and crying towels, but then the 4x4 joy riding-getting stuck incident on the owners back lot didn't help either.
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Martin, it all depends on the general and the expectations of the general.
In the sub we work in now, we are required to put all debris in two piles. And so we do. I also have a few hundred bucks figured in to do this.
In the last sub we were at, they had laborers who came in and cleaned out the houses after we left. And so it was better to leave the trash in the house, so the wind won't spread it around. And the builder saves a few hundred bucks. And some guy has a job picking up our stuff.
I suppose the builder could bring a garbage can and leave it in each house. That would be similar to the offices in most professional buildings. They have garbage cans, and most people use them. But if they weren't available, or never emptied...?
If you want that type of stuff to change, make a meaningful effort to effect change. But be prepared to pay for it.
blue
*Martin, Blue brings up a very valid point. Do you provide a place to dispose of debris? My pet peeve is a contractor who doesn't provide a dumpster or suitable container for trash. Not long ago, a large percentage of my day was spent picking up and moving trash. It's not a real fun job, but I don't mind it because debris is necessary for construction (especially remodeling with large amounts of demolition). I don't mind moving a few rooms worth of drywall scrap and insulation out of the house, but what I don mind is when they tell me to put it "somewhere out of the way until the dumpster gets here" Of course, that's 3 weeks later, and by then the pile is saturated with water (and usually bugs too). Have you ever tried to pick up several hundred drywall nails in grass/gravel? It's not fun. Now that I'm up here on my soapbox, what's the deal with the shortage of garbage cans? Everywhere I go, there always seems to be a shortage of trash barrels. If I were the boss, I would have at least one garbage can per worker (and probably two or three per laborer). I would expect that a good worker could at least come close to filling up a garbage can in a day, no matter what he's doing. Do you have a mitre saw set up? So put a garbage can next to it. We all know what it's like to have the area around the saw littered with one and two inch scraps of lumber. If your saw is stationary, put a garbage can next to it. And then there's wheelbarrows. Everyone should have a good wheelbarrow. I had to haul 100 lb. chunks of concrete 200' yesterday to the dumpster (at least we had one). If I had a good wheelbarrow, I garauntee I could have done it 5 times faster. But now, my back's still sore. Maybe that's why I just wrote this post. ThanksJon Blakemore
*The only "jobsite" I've ever been on had a wheelbarrow. Course, the tire was flat! A million dollar project, but can't get a barrow with a filled tire!Rich Beckman
*Darrell brings up an interesting point. I've rarely been to residential jobsites where any garbage cans were provided. Maybe that wouls help ?BTW Darrell - Do you have a Brother named Darrell ?
*providing a gaarbage can in and out does help, as long as they get emptied. Size can be important. too large of a can near heavy material (like hardi-plank) will get full and too heavy to carry out and empty.Is it the "newbees" job to empty them, no everyone should. But I havent worked with one company or sub that when it came to clean up time someone woud disappear or take the longest time to put away their personal stuff. Sometimes I think it is a macho thing or a " I am better then you attitude". Keeping a job site clean helps to show that you care about your work and yuor work environment. With remodeling it also show the home owner you care about them and their environment as well.
*The most important thing to realize in all this is that if the site is trashed, so goes the project. Sub shows up and if he's got no scruples he figures- "General doesn't give a shit..." and so he contributes to the nail-ridden masonry morass everybody's been wading through for months. I can almost guarantee that if some academic type were to quantify the results of a carefully conducted study, the quality of workmanship on a well-organized jobsite would surpass in every way that on a comparable, but trashed one. The psychology underlying this theory being, of course, almost uninterestingly banal. And if some guy tries to argue away his inability to maintain an organized site based on economic concerns, then he's a fool, 'cause pride results in synergism, the demoralization that results from attempting to fight upstream in an "entropic" setting is a total energy suck. And energy sucks cost bucks, to coin a goofy phrase. And so to conclude this jeremiad let me add that not only do we need trash cans but a dumpster or tarped trailer that's emptied on a regular schedule so that everyone on the site can anticipate what to do with the stuff he generates as a byproduct of producing what he makes.
*yeah, and what about your other brother Darrell?
*I do most of my work within 25 miles of a fairly large city so having a dumpster onsite for the duration of the job is as easy as making a phone call. When it gets full, they come haul it to the dump and return it empty. All for a few dollars a day and a little mileage charge. The dump fees are regulated by local government so I pay the same tonnage rate I would if I hauled it myself, and there is no way I can haul that stuff for the same rate as that company can. Division of labor - it's a beautiful thing.
*Martin, I've had good luck with the big blue trash cans. At about $10.00 each they work great. At some points I might have 20 on a job site and the lunch trash as well as small stuff down to sawdust ends up in them. lots easier to keep the job clean. The subs like them.
*That makes sense to me Tom. I'm sure we'd use them too. Instead, now we usually make about five piles of trash-one inside and four outside. We keep the baggies inside so that they won't blow through the neighborhood. I'd bring my own garbage cans, but I'd have to empty them on the floor to bring them to the next job. Or I'd have to buy fifty or sixty so that I could always have an empty one nearby. So, Ill admit to being trash, and simply make a big pile in the living room!blue
*A clean job is a happy job! If provisions are made and a few instructions ( rules) are layed out early most people are cooperative. No one really wants to wreck their ankles or trash good material. A clean job is more efficient, that means more profitable. All the trash gets dealt with sooner or later so it's not a matter of it going away on it's own. Unless you have your mother with you on the job to pick up after you pick up your own trash. If she is there with you you probably shouldn't be here. Now unions--there is a nice topic. Skip
*..i'm astounded...only the most slovenly contractors ((GC's))) work around here without garbage cans and dumpsters...and that goes for new construction too, but in remodeling it's just SOP..clean up every night.. and clean up extra for friday night...we try to have about three or four trash cans on every job....and a wheelbarrow.. with a wheel that has a valve that you can stick an air hose on ...how many times did you have to police the company area wen u were in the army? dint ya learn nuttin ?not only do you get rave notices from the homewoner... the jobsite is safer and production goes UP !hah, hah, hahb but hey, whadda i no ?
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I'm talking about lunch/break trash - not scrap materials. Yes, I see this in the archives, but wanted to bring it up again. Why is it that so many subs can't pick up their bottles, soda cans, McDonalds wrapers, etc? They leave it for the General, General's guys, or homeowner to pick up after them.
Simply put - if you can't pick up your trash -
b you are trash!
Sorry folks, spent part of today picking up after several subs.
*
Thanks for all the responses.
I guess I'd be rather foolish if I complained about jobsite lunch/break trash without providing trash cans. Actually for each house, there are 2 - one directly outside the house near the parking area, and one inside the house. Then there is also a roll-off dumpster.
A few folks are very thoughtful, even depositing their saw dust, but so many others think that the trash can is there only so that they won't have to go to their truck for a pair of "saw dogs".
Actually, I didn't really put this topic out there to spark a conversation, it was more just a rant designed to make people think.