CNN had a pix of a hotel – all the stuco was gone- like it was never there. the building wrap was visible everywhere
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
A standardized approach, quick-to-install hardware, and a simplified design make building custom casework cost-effective.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
EIFS "stucco" only makes sense in the desert southwest. In New Orleans or Seattle, it's an abomination and the people who specified it as an exterior finish should be in jail.
it was on a comfort inn so it was probably cheaply installed too.
it ws all gone not a speck left
What I don't understand is how the building wrap could survive winds that were strong enough to destroy stucco. It's like you had a pile of bricks and a pile of paper, and the wind blew the bricks away and left the paper.
Was the stucco gone far away, or just dropped off and lying at the bottom of the walls? Was the wrap intact, or torn between the studs and wrapped around them? Or was there sheathing under the wrap, like ply or OSB? If not, what happened to the interior drywall or whatever the inside surface was?
One thought is that maybe the wind was able to wrack the frame enough to break the stucco, which cut it loose and let it fall. We had a 1920's building out here a few years ago where the crawl space collapsed and dropped the rest of the structure pretty much intact. That caused the stucco to shear off the outside walls and slide down in big sheets.
-- J.S.
It was most likely "fake stucco" as TJK said. About a 1/4" plastic cement over styrofoam. Once the wind got behind that, it probably flew off in sheets. Strange the wrap would stay in place though. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
> It was most likely "fake stucco"
Ah, yes. EIFS, which stands for "Experimental Inadequate Fake Stucco" ;-)
-- J.S.
Good one ! Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
If properly applied it probably will work. Not for hurricanes but for temperate climate and conditions. However, up here (Chicago) EIFS "dryvit" will lower the value of your home about 25%.3 coat Portland on self lath wire, on cement board, on wrap, on 1/2" ply, minimum. Maybe a little dryvit added in to give the Portland a little added tensile strength.Never serious, but always right.
my son's house contractor said he would not put stucco over wood- only over cement block
Yep, block is the preferred system, but on the practical side block can be prohibitively expensive. So you screw cement board to the wrapped plywood and then 3 coat. No application to plywood, however.Never serious, but always right.
There isn't any reason to three coat over cement board. The board takes the place of the first coat or scratch coat
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe, however that's the recommendation of my stucco man. A lot of experience with a lot of high end custom homes.Never serious, but always right.
can't argue with a man who goes one over.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
house contractor said he would not put stucco over wood- only over cement block
There's some very good logic, even if only empirical, in that observation. In residential use, on a wooden frame, there's just too much potential for movement, and stucco does not like moving.
Doesn't mean it cant be used, stucco is no more inflexible than brick, just means it needs to be detailed well.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
A coworker replaced the EIFS with real stucco and his house sold immediately after languishing for months in one of the hottest markets around. Real Estate agents don't know much, but they have clearly gotten a memo about EIFS....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
That had to be an expensive fix. It is unfortunate that all "dryvit" systems and homes got a bad rap. We're in a challenging freeze/thaw zone, Chicago, and I have homes with EIFS that are now 15 years old, with no problems, other than the occasional woodpecker. It's all in the application. However, no new EIFS in the last 4 years. Potential law suits and diminished home values have just about wiped it out here for custom homes.
But there's a cost impact EIFS about $6.50/ft, 3 coat stucco $13.50/ft.Never serious, but always right.
I'm in the NYC area. Northern NJ is in the process of being covered in EIFS. Every hotel, strip mall, and occasional McMansion. This guy's father, a contractor in Central NJ, had warned him not to use it because of the bad rap and it's effect on resale. It's a shame, but in this area, it is definitely slapped on in the rain with open joints....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
The commercial market here also relies heavily on EIFS. As I mentioned, application is the key. Many inexperienced contractors got into EIFS because of its originally touted "wonder product" sales pitch. However, it was the experienced plaster/stucco contractors that understood and appreciated the application details necessary for a sound result.As with any application from vinyl siding to masonry if you don't flash, caulk, and pay attention to possible water infiltration details your application is going to be a failure. Especially in freeze/thaw zones.We still use EIFS on spec'ed commercial projects and I wouldn't hesitate using it on a residential project, if the home owner completely understood the value compromise and relieved me of any liability exposure. However, my applicator is an old line plastering/stucco contractor, no-one else would due.Never serious, but always right.
how the building wrap could survive winds that were strong enough to destroy stucco
Wasn't the winds, it was the debris in the wind. Tree limbs, other roofing parts, whatever a 110 mph wind will pick up--that'll gouge all sorts of surfaces. The 120mph-rated glazing on the NO Hyatt Regency did not stand up to debris on the windard side.
So, any weakness in the EIFS install will be "exploited" once the exterior stucco is perforated. Not a huge surprise, that, the foam sheets are not intended to stand up to hurricane force winds by themselves.
No, the odd thing to see, is the damage that is all on the landward sides, not the seaward sides of the buildings. That has to do with the side of Katrina that hit NO--almost all the damaging winds were out of the North & NNE directions. So, there are structures with nice, intact, EIFS installs--just on only three sides . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
isn't it also a water issue? i have heard that wet and humid climates are the worst for the fake stuff. makes me pictur it breaking down and 'melting' off. is it more of a problem in wet climates as an earlier poster indicated?
heard that wet and humid climates are the worst for the fake stuff
Depends on how "fake" the material is. If you skim coat with vinyl spackle, it's going to last as long as that sort of solution would last.
Locally, the only difference between "real" and EIFS stucco is in the substrate. The "mix" is usully identical, barring variations on a per contractor basis (some use different admixtures).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
One of the worst problems is improper flashing details that let water in and it can never dry out then through the foam. Flashing is one of the details of "application" that is mentioned here. Nailing patterns is another one
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
True, it's the debris impact rather than the wind itself that does the damage. Still, if the debris hits hard enough to smash stucco, it's strange that it wouldn't snag and shred the wrap.
-- J.S.
it's strange that it wouldn't snag and shred the wrap.
LoL, it's the only time the tyvek holds up . . .
Mind you, one of the pics I saw showed a whole parking lot of yellow FG insulation, which may have 'cushioned' the wrap a bit.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
could you please specify a siding material that i can use and afford that will withstand 125+ mph wind forces ?
carpenter in transition
actually I think face nailed Hardie is spec'd for that. Blind nailed is not
1/4" steel plate and a portable mig welder and plasma cutter =-)