just applied for an electrical service revision permit . filed all the paperwork with an electrician friend of mine.(needed his liscense number). put up the mast , pulled the wire , and ran a jumper to backfeed the old panel so i could power up the new one and switch everything over when i have time. the inspector comes to “inspect” and looks at the jumper and says you cant power the old panel off the new panel.i say what do you want me to do?switch everything over and run my house off of a generator for two weeks.(i called for inspection on moday , he did’nt come out till the following tuesday). so me being the smart
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Did you have the old panel set up as a sub panel with separate neutral & ground busses? That could be why he failed it - not just because the old panel was powered from the new.
Just curious as to why you needed your buddies license number? Where I live you don't need a license to work on your own house, I just assumed that was the way it was everywhere.
In my town (Elmhurst, IL) all electrical work must be done my a certified electrition, period.
Man, that just rots. It would drive me crazy to be required to hire someone to work on my own house...
First you may have done your friend a disservice. When you file under his number, at least in this state, it is registered as if the job is done by him. Next time he has a job the inspector looks at his file and sees he has done an obviously faulty job previously. Bad for his standing with the AHJ. The commentary didn't help either.
When you fill out the paper work your in effect testifying to either knowing what your doing, an intention to learn before starting or having someone on site who does know what is going on. Inspectors are not instructors. They are not there to tell you how to do anything or hold your hand. Theirs is a simple pass/fail grade. Most don't have time, or patience, given their work load to hold the hand of people who don't know what they are doing.
Now if the inspector is in a good mood, and you don't blow it by making smart remarks, they may give you the benefit of their experience. Inspectors can be a great asset to have on your side. But there is generally no requirement they say anything other than approved or not and a reference to the fault in technospeak.
I have seen the consequences of this a few times. The HO or handyhack, lacking training, can't decipher the note left by the inspector and complain when the inspector declines to dumb it down for them or offer any alternatives.
As one inspector, a friend of mine, told me: 'Everyone wants me to tell them how to do their job. It's not in my job description. The code tells you what is required. If they don't know the rules they need to hire someone who does.'
you got to be humble with inspectors. You have to do a lot of kissing asz. Suck up. Luck.
Well that was dumb.
Around here you can get a ten day letter. Or at least you could when I did a lot of residential services. Check with your local electric company. What you do is build the service have them come and hook it up, they give you a letter to sign promising to have it inspected within ten days.Then call for inspection. This only works on service change outs and moving a service on a house.
You might have to have the inspector come out and aprove your new service first, but if you know what you are doing you shouldn't have a problem.
Personaly I don't loan my license out to anyone. If I don't do the work, I don't back it. Amatuers do a lot of stupid things and I don't need my name drug into it.
We are all in this together.
http://www.hay98.com/
One more thing as far as getting through an inspection. Don't say anything. Either find something else to do or turn into stone. Alot of inspectors like to try to get you to explain stuff by simply looking like their not happy. Head games I guess.
I had one a few months ago inspecting a hook up on an island ATM , he stuck his head in and looked for awhile then he pulled his head out and frowned, then he looked a little more, then he would kind of grumble under his breath. Finaly he said it passed but he didn't like the white tape wrapped around a brown wire. It was hard not to laugh in his face. I explained that it was to redentify a brown wire that was in fact a neutral, the manufacturer had used brown instead of white (I've been told it has something to do with selling them overseas) If he had looked to the right a quarter of an inch he would have seen my white neautral going into the line side of the terminal block. It's just proof positive that he doesn't know what the heck he's looking at.
We are all in this together.
http://www.hay98.com/
Time to call your buddy the electrician and get him over to see what's wrong. Pay him to fix it. That's your tuition into a school of hard knocks, or a least a deposit. Deal with it. You may have given him headaches that he doesn't need either.
A wise crack directed at an inspector will get you no where fast even if its evident the guy has no clue. They expect azz kissin and thats how its done. If you were curteous enough he might have elaborated a little as to what he wanted to see and he might have reinspected within a day. Your pennance will be a box of donuts.
RE: "They expect azz kissin and thats how its done."'Kissin' isn't likely to get you any farther than wise cracks. Sucking up often warns the inspector that the inspection, actually the HO or workman, are going to be high maintenance, with hand holding, advice giving and breaks expected because, they are amateurs that 'don't know any better'. Most would rather inspect a job done by professionals because contractors know what is required. They know the language and only rarely is there any discussion needed. Contractors also are repeat customers. They have a reputation and license to protect. When a reputable contractor says he will do something odds are it will get done in a workmanlike manner and the inspector knows this. For a HO or Handyhack he needs to explain it in detail if he wants to see it done right. I have seen a patient inspector spend ten minutes explaining a five minute job to HOs who wanted to do it themselves. HOs are less reliable and more needy.Most inspectors want to get in, look at what they need to look at, preferably work done in a neat, knowledgeable 'and workmanlike manner', sign or not and leave. During this most I have been around want to be treated in a professional manner. Like someone who has a job to do and who is knowledgeable in that job. Nothing more. They don't need any hand holding of to be lead around the site. Do make sure they have access to the entire job before they get there. Doors unlocked, panel covers removed, dogs penned out of the way. If you are there when they arrive tell where the panel and meter is and where you will be in case they have something to tell you and let them go. If the inspector wants to be friendly let them start the conversation. If he/she wants you to do something they will ask. Don't follow them around as it makes them think you hoping they will miss something or are trying to distract them. Most inspectors go to several jobs in a day, five days a week, so they know their way around a site. They also know a snow job when they see one.Save the coffee and doughnuts unless you are having some yourself. You can be polite and offer if they are out but keep it light. Some inspectors are sensitive to the appearance of bribery or influence. A possible reason they are not overly friendly.I'm friends with most of the inspectors. We see each other regularly. They know I actively try to do things right. They know that if they have a concern it will be addressed without a lot of debate, carping or complaint. We both know none of us is perfect. But we also respect that both of us are trying to do a respectable job.
8 days for an inspection?
How does anyone get anything done with that sort of delay?
In the peoples republic of Maryland call today, inspection tomorrow.
What is it in other states?
Here in LA it's call today, inspection tomorrow. It used to be horrible, but a new guy took over LADBS about 8 years ago.
-- J.S.
DING!
We have a winner! Very well done.
Expert since 10:00.
http://www.hay98.com/
Edited 7/28/2005 9:29 pm ET by Gunner
I wouldn't bank on inspectors appreciating professionals more than amatures (assuming the amature knows what he's doing). Every pro I've talked to has said that our local inspectors are brutal, nitpicky, etc. On my house so far, everything has been great. The inspectors have been amicable. Maybe I'm just doing it all right then...
Sometimes amateurs have an advantage. They are less constrained by demands of profit and time. I have seen some amateur work that was more meticulously done than anything that I could afford to do. I have to keep my standards at neat and workmanlike. Well short of perfect. But they had researched the job. Knew what they were doing and had their bases covered. They also spent almost eight hours detailing a simple thirty circuit panel.Some contractors have problems because any requirement, above what they had planned on, cuts into their profit. Given that there is a motivating factor, keeping the contract price low to get the job, to assume the simplest possible case. When they find out they don't meet the narrow confines of the cheapest possible installation from the inspector they see their profits going out the window.An example of this was where a contractor looked at the job and failed to note the location of the gas meter. The extra cost of relocating the panel an extra two feet away ate his profits. He blamed the inspector but the requirements were/are clear. It was his fault that he failed to estimate the job correctly. The inspector just was the bearer of the bad news. T&M and service work are less constrained. Less motivation to lowball and then square the corner cutting with an inspector that doesn't see it that way.
Did some volunteering with the local HfH chapter for several years. We never argued with the inspectors, unless it was obvious they were full of hooey---and never argued with them---called their boss. We had a bit of pull---20 houses a year and the city fathers finally realized the idea was a good one and backed them.But, I did get into it with one dingdong----he flunked a window header because it was a 2x8 instead of a 2x6---only material we had that day---volunteers were kicking butt and I said "Do it!" Mr. Brand New Inspector said I had to follow code---I countered the code was minimum standard and anything over built was fine. He won, temporarily. (LOL) We had a roughin approval the next morning.I decided to stop taking life so seriously, it is, after all, only temporary.
Inspectors are human. The usual protocols, common to any civil relationship you don't wish to have blow up into a cold war of resentments, apply. Always voice your concerns in private with the inspector. Feel out and address his/her concerns. Be gentle about it. On minor issues, especially if you don't have a relationship and/or the inspector is new and insecure, more likely to get defensive and hold resentments, it is often better to just go along. When they realize they made a mistake you have both a better relationship for bigger issues and some credit due.Try to speak their language. Work on seeing where they are coming from. Look at the bigger issues. If they give you a break and you crow about it the inspector can look like a pushover, losing face, and others may demand similar breaks. A public showdown is a very poor way of gaining concessions. I have seen contractors who will always have difficulty with the inspectors because of their tendency to engage in public pissing matches. Word gets out. Inspectors talk to each other. Your reputation among inspectors can follow you. Working with the inspector in a reasonable manner and quietly can get you a long way.It is true that everyone has a boss. But running to their boss makes the inspector look bad, something he/she will remember, and you like a tattle-tale. Do it too often and of niggling issues and you can wear out your welcome there also. So save going over their head for something important and even then try to do it as quietly and privately as possible. And always, always be polite. Come at it in a reasonable manner. Privately. The ego you bruise today can haunt you for decades to come. Seek a reasonable solution. Make reasonable concessions even if it is not technically correct. Seek the doable and workable solution you can live with even if it is not your ideal solution. Do Not set yourself up as arguing the 'principle' of the matter. This isn't a Highschool philosophy debate. Do not try to show the inspector up or prove them wrong. Get your ego out of the way.
bet you that it wouldn't take me two minutes with Google to find an inspector's forum discussing "know-it-all DIYs" and the smart-azz comments they make to cover up for their lack of knowledge
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We were working on a large house in Seattle. 600 amp service supplied 3 main panels and 3 sub panels. One of our tasks was to cut in a new stairway from the main floor to the "ballroom". This required moving one of the feeds to a subpanel. We did not anticipate this when we had pulled the electrical permit and therefore did not permit the new feeder.
At rough in inspection the inspector noted this, inspected the work and asked us to get a permit for the new feeder. He signed us off for cover and told us to proceed. We finish the job and call in for final inspections. I call them in for the same day ( I know the building inspector quite well) and all of my finals except for electrical are signed off by 11:00 AM. The electrical inspector arrives (different guy) and inspects the job. He asks for the permit to which I have paper clipped the earlier correction.
He looks at the correction and asks me for the permit. I hand him the permit for the subpanel power feed. He looks at it and remarks that it is not signed off for cover. I explain the situation and remind him that the inspector inspected the work and wanted me to get the permit because a feeder requires a permit.
The inspector tells me I am going to need to remove sheetrock and plaster to let him inspect this feeder that should not have been covered up. I remind him again that the previous inspector had inspected the work before cover. At this point I am trying not to become agitated. Finally I ask him what he needs to inspect and he replies that he needs to make sure the feeder is sized properly.
I take him over to the subpanel and open it up. For two and a half hours we inspect the feeder wire trying to read the writing that is in small print and facing to the back of the panel. I get my folding mirror and we get a reading of what size the wire was. He says that is acceptable for copper but not for aluminum. We are looking right at the subpanel connections and I reply "looks like copper to me". He replies "I need to see it written on the wire". Another half an hour of trying to twist the wire and read the rating and he gives up and signs me off.
I managed to stay cool and just do as he asked during the course of this almost three hour inspection. Most inspectors are reasonable. I find that by asking them how they might solve a problem (or interpretation) they end up helping me to find a solution that they will buy off on.
Wood is Good
Adam Greisz