Hi all
I wondered if this has happened to many other of you, and what you did to get satisfaction. I have been dealing with the same lumberyard for a few years. Customer service is usually adequate, but nothing special. They supply my entire framing packages including the trusses. We were scheduled to tip the trusses on my own house this last Wed. I called Tue. to see which load out it would be, and was told that the delivery would be moved to Thur. because delivery schedule was messed up. So on Thur. morning, I called once again only to be told that my load would be moved to Fri. You can imagine by this time I’m getting fairly irate. So after shutting down early again, I went to the yard to find out what the
was going on. I found out that my trusses had yet to be made. The new schedule put them on the plate line Wed. the 3rd. Now myself and my crew have done enough of the pickup framing, to finish three houses, let alone my buddy that was to bring his crew over from the other side of the state on Thur., and work through the week-end( I called in a marker to get him to do this). I also have a lift on-site so we could pre-build and lift sections into place ( $600.00 per week ). So I need your opinions of what compensation I should be satisfied with. Very large, fairly complicated roof and the only window that I had to assemble multiple teams to help out getting it done quickly. Hey BOSS, I’ve read your posts many times and would really appreciate your input on this.
THANKS TO ALL
Kim Sheehan
Meridian Const.
Replies
The part that would upset me the most is being given wrong (untruthful) information about the delay. I try to maintain a good relationship with my suppliers, but when the kind of malarky you experienced happens, I get mad, cool off, think about it and then (in a reasonable state of mind) go in face to face with the upper levels of the food chain and THROW A FIT!!! How much compensation to demand is up to you, but your supplier needs to understand your losses and if you can document the rental costs and/or anything else directly related to the problem, insist they pay up or make an adjustment.
It's not unlike the old drill instructor method of making sure a screwup is identified and unacceptable and there are consequences and it better not re happen and if it does, there better be an honest explaination.
Such an approach has served me well over the years and your supplier becomes "sensitive" to you because he knows you're not going to accept b.s.
And then you can go back to being the nice, warm and fuzzy guy who is a pleasure to do business with!
Edited 6/28/2002 11:34:38 PM ET by Notchman
Dang, you really hit on a hot one here. Unfortunately this happens all the time in the truss business.
Have to get to work this morning, but I'll try to address this tonight or tomorrow. Lotsa ground to cover here.
Quantity has a quality all it's own
Last year I gave a contractor a hand for one day to set some trusses. There were four of us - the trusses were 12/12 with a living area in the attic. (= big heavy & required single setting w/crane). The trusses were sposed to be there at 10am, got there at 5:30pm, took us 45 min. to set, and I went home. In the meantime we called the truss plant 6-7 times, and got the same thing, Oh, he's leaving in 15 minutes, oh, we had some trouble with the truck, etc. etc. Well, evidently the trusses weren't even started 'till that morning sometime.So all the excuses were basically lies to take the heat off for a while. And the point - the truss plant did reimburse the contractor for most of his lost time in wages in the form of a unit of OSB or plywood or something like that. And I got to watch Armegeddon. And I was paid for 10 hours work. And I got to read the Simpson Strong tie catalog from cover to cover. ( The owner's manual for the compressor was a trifle dry for my taste.)
The contractor now uses a different truss plant.
Unfortunately, scheduling has been a constant problem at every truss plant I've worked at. Since you asked what I think, I'll tell you. And I'll tell you the truth as I see it, like it or not.
First off, I don't think the truss company owes you any money. (But I also don't think they handled the situation very well based on what you've said) Delays are unfortunately a normal part of construction and should be planned for.
Maybe it would help to explain what typically goes on in truss scheduling. Let's say it's early spring. The truss orders are runnning about 3 or 4 days out and things start heating up. Pretty soon the orders start rolling in, and the truss plant is out 2 weeks. Trouble is, all the lumber yards and contractors still think the lead time is about a week. So they don't order soon enough, end up waiting, and are ticked off.
So word starts getting around that lead times on orders are out 2 weeks, and everybody starts ordering earlier and earlier, trying to make sure their trusses will be there when they need them. In a very short time the lead times start extending out to about 4 weeks. Now the plant is scrambling trying to keep up. Some of the orders ship the minute they're done. But others mysteriously sit in the yard for a week or so. (Those are the orders from the guys who lied about when they needed them)
In the truss plant office, they've switched to crisis management. The customers aren't getting the trusses when they want them, and are ticked off. They start calling and threatening to cancel orders, etc. Lumberyards threaten to take their business elsewhere permenantly. So the plant starts shuffling orders around trying to please everyone. Some of the orders get pushed in front of other ones that were ordered first. (This is probably what happened to you, Kim) As the customers start to call to confirm their deliveries, they find out they've been pushed off. So then they get mad, and the plant tries to shuffle production around to please everyone again. But somebody else gets pushed back, and is ticked off. This how things are run from May to October around here.
Then you need to throw in a couple of other factors here - Whomever does the scheduling is typically the owner, or someone who's been around for a long time. In both of those cases, they're going to have their own "pet" customers that they go out of their way to take care of. This can be maddening for everyone else at the plant, but it's typical.
And there's always rush jobs and replacemenmts for trusses that were broken or were wrong. Sometimes a serious mistake can really set the plant back when they're trying to crank a lot of stuff out. Some of the rush jobs can be the customer's fault, too - People sometimes forget to order stuff, order the wrong stuff, etc. These all mess up scheduling.
The "wishful thinking" factor also comes in to play during these periods of crisis management. By that I mean that the guy scheduling production assumes the plant will try harder to get stuff cranked out when he's under pressure. (Which doesn't actually happen) So he schedules more work than can possibly be done.
So what do you do about it? How do you make sure you get your trusses in a timely manner?
First, order the trusses earlier than you really need to. Not a whole lot - Just a few days. Given the unreliability of the weather and other factors, the truss plant will likely be behind. And it's quite possible that you will also. It's a lot easier to push stuff BACK in the schedule than to move it UP.
Second, try to find out who the guy is that decided what gets built and what doesn't. Try to talk to him instead of relaying info through a 3rd party. It make a lot of difference when it's "personal". Better yet, stop by and talk to the guy in person. That makes it even more personal, and increases your chances. Often the scheduling person tries to insulate themselves from this sort of contact, and tries to let other people at the plant (Like me) deliver bad news to the customers. Even if you have to order the trusses through a lumberyard, try to talk to the truss plant directly when possible.
Third - Check back often. Call and ask them some detail about the overhangs (or whatever) and ask: "BTW - Are my trusses still coming out the 15th?" If they don't hear from you, they'll assume you don't really need the trusses and you might get bumped.
So that's the typical situation - True of all 6 plants I've worked at. Keep in mind that I don't necessarilly like the stuff that goes on, or agree with how it's done. But I've never been in a position to do anything about it. I'll be glad to discuss it further if you're interested.
If my Wife would just lose about 5 pounds a month, I'd be rid of her completely in 3 or 4 years.........
First of all, thank you for your reply. That said, my trusses were ordered the first week of the month and there has been much contact between the truss designer, my saleslady, the general manger of the lumberyard, and myself since then. This included two site visits the first week. I know that the designs were complete on June 7th, because I picked up the layout and the individual truss designs at that time. Again, this is the lumberyard that I have relied on for many years. The trusses are manufactured in-house, which usually means that I get better service because they also provide my entire lumber load, and is also the reason that I have stuck with them. I have been in the industry ( both commercial and resi.) long enough to be understanding of a delay for a day or two, and I feel that I was. But to be lied to is not appreciated. I'm an overly honest person that does far too much of his own work because of the incompetence that exists. What, I have to start building my own trusses now to cover the truss plants a##? I also expect people to own up to things if they were in the wrong. If they had bothered to tell me on Wed. that the trusses were not built yet I probably would not be so angry. I have appreciated your posts many times, and please know that this is not an attack against you or the truss companies as a whole. It is mostly the fact that they have thrown me right into a holiday weekend and their delay has basically cost me another two weeks on my job. Now with the bank breathing down my neck about a completion date, it just doesn't seem to me that I should let this slide. Thanks for your responses, looking forward to more.
Kim
So this is a lumberyard that manufactrurers trusses also? That does make it a bit more interesting.
Doesn't sound from your post like you're the screaming/temper tantrum type. I guess what I'd suggest is letting them know in no uncertain terms that you want a full accounting of what happened and why. Bend their ear pretty hard about how much it's set you back, and let them know you're extremely unhappy with them. In particular, I would be livid that they didn't give more warning that the trusses weren't coming out - They should've called you, not you calling them. Maybe shift your lumber/material business elsewhere until you get a satisfactory answer. Call them up Monday and tell them if the trusses aren't there Wednesday, you'll get them elsewhere and not do business with them again.
I'm also a little puzzled - Why were the layout and truss designs done so early? That's not typical, at least for any plant I've ever worked for. Generally they're done at the last possible minute. (The companies don't want to hire any more designers than they can get away with, or pay any overtime) Seems like it's odd that the designs were done, but the trusses didn't get built.
Hope the rest of your project goes better.
Thanks again for your response. Everything was started early so that I would review my trusses on time. The plant also likes to have the designs early because they generally pre-cut the pieces as they have time.
The idea that they could "pre-cut the pieces as they have time." also sounds suspicious. I've never worked at a plant where the saws weren't cutting "just in time", or barely ahead of assembly.
Don't know that it's significant, I just thought it sounded odd.
I have discovered that most people operate on some version of the old saying: its easyer to appologize than to ask permission. Most people in cust. service at any store find it easyer to lie(or more often just "bend" the truth) than to take heat from cust. I have found that this is inversly correlated to their level in the food chain. The minimum wage SOB is more likely to lie to you for various reasons than the owner/operator of a company. Delays happen, but lying about it shows some major flaws of character of someone, or they are really afraid of their higher ups. Nobody likes an a## chewing, but sometimes it has to be done, if for nothing more than to get a good worker back on track. I aggree, if they just own up to it right off the bat, it is better, maybe you could have adjusted to compenstate with some advanced notice. now there is no chance. I have never had a late truss delivery, but I have been sitting on a whole stack of nails, screws, hardware, tools and not a stick of lumber to work with. There is only so much prep work for a bunch of carpenters to do, but by god those tools were organized and you could eat off the table saw. I was actually told that because my load was on a truck w/ another job delivery(at a different address) that was cancelled, they just "figured" that I didn't need my lumber. No satisfaction when confronted, so that business lost the $5,000 that I spent for the rest of that job and I have not been back on any others. Heck, I look at it as a good thing cause I found better wood and prices elseware anyway. Good Luck.