I hate plumbing. And I only do it when the need arises. The reason I hate it so much is that every time I tackle a project I end up creating about six more steps for myself. And before I know it I’m in over my head.
Last week the 7 yr. old emptied the pencil sharpener in the bathroom sink (heaven only knows what drives a 7 yr. old to do such things) Didn’t have time to get to undoing the trap until this morning. So before heading off to work I thought I’d quickly undo the thing and clean it out. So I get out the channel locks and proceed to undo the ring that attaches the stub from the wall to the trap. A quick turn and it’s loose but on closer examination I realize that it was so old and rotted out the ring broke as I turned it (so I think to myself well looks like I’ll have to pick up another part at the store this afternoon.
So tonight I get home with the part and realize my life would be a lot easier if I took the sink out of the vanity and work on it from above since it is really hard to get at the nut or ring holding the stub coming out of the wall. So I attempt to shut the supply valves off only to find they are way corroded and I can’t get my hand on them enough to turn them off. So enter the pliers. As I start to crank on the valve handles I notice the cold water side start to drip so I crank harder and it keeps dripping now I’m resigned to get a new set of shut off valves. Finally with the supplies turned off and slightly dripping I undo the lines to the sink, loosen the clips holding the sink to the counter and pull the sink out.
Great making progress. Run to the hardware store and get valves, new supply lines etc.
So now back at home I turn off the water to the house and proceed to undo the valves. They’re way stuck. And as I crank on the valve I actually take the nipple stub coming out of the wall with the valve. With the valves still on the nipples I take the them outside to the bench vise and get the valves freed from the nipples and I bring them back in and tighten them back into the female threads coming out of the wall. reach for the new valves to put them on the nipples and arrrgh the valves are too big (I bought 1/2″ valves and the nipples are 3/8″ galvanized.
Now what? the hardware store is closed wife will be getting up in the morning and need to do her thing and she’ll be cranky if there is no water.
Okay, cut hole in drywall and cut pipe and solder on caps. After doing that I notice that the drain stub isn’t a mechanical connection that I can simply unscrew. But is actually stuck into the connector (which looks like it might have threads) and is filled wiht what I presume to be lead solder. Now what?
Edited 4/13/2009 11:12 pm ET by ted
Edited 4/13/2009 11:13 pm ET by ted
Replies
Presumably you're describing (aside from a typical after-hours disaster) a cast iron drain pipe with a leaded joint.
I'm no expert with these, but there are now various rubber gizmos that will replace the lead, or you can use a special sort of epoxy-like material (specifically designed for this use) in place of the lead.
Hopefully someone else will come along with more info.
I had you up to where you started cutting drywall and soldering on caps. questions:
Is your supply system copper or galvanized?
How about the drain system?
How is putting caps on going to solve an out of water situation?
I'm so confused....
Edit: now that I see the previous post I suspect your drain IS cast iron, and there are rubber adapters to tie into that. But still,
how is soldering on caps going to get the water back?
Edited 4/13/2009 11:25 pm ET by geoffhazel
Edited 4/13/2009 11:31 pm ET by geoffhazel
Soldering on caps will let him turn the house water back on.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
(Though this would have been a good place for using Sharkbite caps.)
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Like I said I got in over my head. In order to facilitate removing the drain stub I decided to remove the sink from the vanity to get better access. In order to do that I had to disconnect the supplies. One thing led to another and before I knew it I had trashed the old valves bought the wrong size new valves, needed to get the water back on before tomorrow a.m. so I decided to just cut the drywall out, get at the copper supplies and cap them for tonight.
In the meantime after cutting the rock out I noticed that the stub line to the trap is soldered is stuck in the fitting and is filled in with solder. Mind you not an ordinary soldered connection but a connection where the 1 1/4" pipe from the lave is considerably smaller than the fitting it is stuck into at the wall and the difference in diameters is made up with a filling of what I presume to be lead.
OK, after reading of your problems, I can now say to myself "You are not the only one who runs into this cr@p!"
You are already screwed, but here is what you do next time:
When you discover the disaster starting to unroll - STOP! Go to a pet store and buy some sort of animal you don't like - if you are squeemish like me, just get a stuffed teddy bear and a pound of chuck steak. On your way back, if you don't already have one, stop by a gun store and get a shotgun.
When you get home, place kitty/puppy/teddy bear & steak in the disaster area, then blast it with the shotgun. Now feel free to make up a story aboout how you were about to finish up this easy repair when you discovered this RABID MONSTER HIDING IN YOUR WALL/FLOOR/ENTERTAINMENT CENTER and it JUMPED OUT AND ATTACKED YOU, and how it was SO GOOD YOU WEREN'T THE ONE WHO DISCOVERED IT! No, after you clean it up, your wife will be happy to not have hot water for day while you figure out how to make your house work again.
This works four or five times before the wife/pet store/toy-r-us gets suspicious.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Okay, it's definately something in the name (it's curse I tell ya!), because I just finished working on the exact same thing - 1-1/4" drain stub soldered into the cast iron. If you haven't already chisseled, cooked or other wise finnagled it out, don't. You can get a double ended connector, which has a slip nut on each end. It's about 3" long and will make the transition to the new drain pipe.
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/51-284-drain-metal-couplings.aspx
Also, I sometimes use pipe dope on slip joint connections that refuse to seal.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
Meet me at House & Builder!
Damn. I always knew I was done for when I'd get in another group with a Ted. Same coincidences wherever I go. The last time I was in a group with another Ted was in woodworking school. I can't tell you the number of times we made the same Faux Pas.
The last time I was in a group with another Ted was in woodworking school.
So, you still both have the same number of fingers? 7? hehe~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
You'd probably really flip out if I told you my last initial is also W.
Whaaaaa??????
Is it also the name of an Antarctic sea?~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
Got pictures?
When you buy new sink stop valves, get the 1/4 turn version and you won't have problems in the future. The Brass Craft brand is still US made and about $7 each at the orange box.
If the sink drain connection is still sound in the cast, do not mess with it.
Use a double ended slip connector as mentioned above, or locate a rubber connector made for your proper *tubing* size (thin grayish Fernco). The black Fernco connectors made for *pipe* will not fit.
The metal tubing end that is constantly wet will corrode over time- especially in horizontal against the flow installations. Keep that in mind when using the double ended slip connector or when placing the hose clamp on the rubber one.
Yep, I installed a couple of Brass Craft 1/4 turn valves under our kitchen sink and was very pleased with them.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
DO NOT BUY ANY LOTTO TICKETS!!
Ted,
I would gladly trade your Bathroom Disaster for my ongoing, every time I touch something, Another piece to replace Boiler......
"...arrrgh the valves are too big (I bought 1/2" valves and the nipples are 3/8" galvanized."
I've never heard of 3/8" galvanized water supply pipe for a sink and I've never seen angle stops for anything other than 1/2" FIP or 1/2" copper compression on the inlet side.
"Okay, cut hole in drywall and cut pipe and solder on caps."
Where did you get caps after the hardware store closed and how did you solder ANYTHING onto galvanized pipe?
I see 3/8 all the time, in galv., brass and chrome plated brass.~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
Must be regional. We have less water out west, so naturally we use bigger pipes. :)BruceT
Nipples are galvanized, threaded into fittings which are in turn soldered onto 1/2" copper.
Had the caps on hand in an odds and end collection.
Edited 4/15/2009 3:48 pm ET by ted