I hope you can shed some light on this subject. I have a 17×19 Living Room, Sea Blue paint. I have a single light which lights up the room, I hate it, it is right in my field of tv vision. A freind and I were talking and he suggested that i run some indirect lighting about 8 inches below the ceiling around the perimeter. I plan to make a simple L shape and install single florescent continuously around inside it. I will use 1×4 pine for the bottom and .5×4 for the side. my question is has anyone ever seen/done anything like this. It sure seems like a good idea. he also said i should use a couple short lights in the corners for night/mood lighting. I was going to do recessed but that involved a lot more work and repairing, whereas this is minimally invasive to the wall. Is this too many lights? and how well will the light reflect off of the ceiling? I have a 4 light one in the kitchen and it is more then enough but its just a regular light, not indirect. any comments would be appreciated. thanks
Frank
We were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail…
Replies
A friend just installed what you are proposing...... valance lighting. It is a real nice soft indirect form of light, you will probably be happy with the results!
bake
I have a 12x14 ft MBR. The only light in it is a strip of 3, 40 watt flurorscents in in a 6x6" troffer. Now the room has a vaulted ceiling with a shed roof so that the tall wall is about 16 ft and the lights are mounted about 8ft up on that wall. They light the upper part of that wall and reflect off the ceiling.
wow you didnt all laugh :) my other question is that too many lights? i wanted to find some single 8 footers, that would be two per wall, but all i could find was 4 footers, will 3 per wall work? or will it look strange with light "gaps" along the ceiling? and i was trying to find T8 lights for sound, but all that i could find in what i need was t12, though there were on and i couldnt hear anything in the store..
Thanks all, Frank
We were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail..
There will be gaps with the shorter lights, but not terribly obnoxious. And the 4' lights are MUCH easier to handle. In some cases folks lap the ends of the fixtures to avoid gaps, but that causes the lamps to be at different heights within the valence, and that probably looks worse than the gaps. (Though, actually, if you mounted the lamps on the bottom rather than back of the enclosure you would probably do pretty well lapping them.)
You can find T8s fairly easily on the web. Try ProLighting.com, eg. Never used them but was looking at the site recently -- they have a nice assortment, and the prices don't seem too bad.
Butt the lights and not lap them.... The light will blend nicely...
After yur done and you think they're too bright lower the wattage...
It's easier to tone down than to get more out of what you have...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Getting T8 lamps doesn't necessarily make them quieter. You have to check the sound ratings for the ballasts, and buy the ones with a high rating.
Definitely get electronic ballasts. The magnetic ballasts cause a flicker which few people notice but does tire the eyes after a while. Not many people know the flicker is doing this to their eyes, they just know there's something about fluorescents that is unpleasant. Also, the flicker is synchornized with television and computer screens, making them more annoying to watch. Electronic ballasts don't have these problems.
Also pay attention to the color and phosphor of the tubes. Cheap cool whites will produce a harsh, unnatural light that will make you think your living room is a K-Mart. There are two things to be concerned about. First is the color temperature. Color temperature is expressed in degrees kelvin, and refers to the warmness or coolness of the light. A low color temperature, around 3000 K, is warm, much like incandescent lighting (and goes well when there are other lamps in the room). 3500 K is mid range, 4100 K is like the bluish light of cool whites. Daylight is even higher, but looks really strange indoors at night.
The second factor is color rendering index (CRI). A higher CRI produces more natural colors. Standard cool white lamps have a very low CRI and make people look sick. (Ever notice how bad you look in the bathroom in a motel?) I would recommend any manufacturer's higher end CRI lamps. GE calls theirs SP and SPX. I used SPX in my shop so I can match colors better, and I like them alot. The lamps run about $10 retail, but from an electrical contractor's supply house they would be much less.
For a room you will live in, and try to relax in, every day, I think high quality lighting is money well spent. People will spend $350 on a chandelier, or $20 for some silly little knick-knack, but balk at spending an extra $30 for a better quality fixture or $10 on a high quality bulb.
See that is why i LOVE this site, you guys know everything :) I looked into the color as well but thanks for putting in your info, my first prob is to find the right length. If i go 4 foot then i either have some gaps , which i dont know how it will look, or the cost will go up , i figured for the evenings i would switch certan lights on, not just all of them for mood lighting. yes this is my relax room. I wish i could send you a pic of the room, but the camera is with the wife and son, in India, so for a couple months thats out of the question... sorry. but thanks for the info . also, will i have to run more power for all these lights?? i know they dont use much but was just curious. if i do 4 footers thats 4 per wall, 16 total at 40w each or 640 watts... i think its ok but i know the geniuses here will know for sure. thank you all sooooo much , I really mean that...
Frank
I use my gun, whenever kindness fails...
Generally lighting circuits are 15 amps, and it's good to keep the total amperage on a given circuit below 10 amps or so. So that's about 1200 watts per circuit. So long as you're below that (or not too much above it) then you're OK.
It's probably a good idea to pull a separate circuit for a major lighting project like this, if it's reasonable to do so. Makes it easier to isolate it if you need to work on it, etc. Of course, often it's just not practical.
"I would recommend any manufacturer's higher end CRI lamps. GE calls theirs SP and SPX. I used SPX in my shop so I can match colors better, and I like them alot. The lamps run about $10 retail, but from an electrical contractor's supply house they would be much less."
The SP have a CRI in the 70's, and SPX have a CRI in the 80's.
Most people recommend CRI of 80 or high for woodworking shops.
But I am surpised at yur cost. I believe that I only paid about $6 for my 8ft F12's Designer 800 (equivalent to SPX's).
And I have notice in the last couple of years that these often seen in the Big Box stores. And Wally World has the CRI 90, 5000K Chroma 90 bulbs.
And in for a good incandensent color range bulb use the GE Kitchen and Bath Ultras.
Though I've seen them at $10 retail, I only paid $3 at an electrical supply house. I avoid Wally World as much as possible and go there only when all else fails, so I'm not up on what they carry.
Thanks guys for all your input :)
Frank
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails...
Our original poster mentioned his room color was some Sea Blue...
This discussion about proper lighting color, albeit an excellent subject, sorta suggests to me that he use the good old "cool white" cheep ones.
On the other hand, if I were he, I'd wait until the install was done and then try different bulbs to see which gives the desired look.
I am not a lighting engineer, but it does seem to me that all those light strips, at some 600 watts, would be too much light for TV viewing. I have two incandescent can lights in my TV room on dimmers. I dim them to nearly off for the best TV picture. You could use the 600 watts for reading terms of service information in your contracts.
On a manufacturing project recently I convinced our electrical engineer to put single T8 lamps along one side of 9 feet wide corridor. The lamps were covered with white Lexan. It achieved the look I was going for: enough light to make the corridor safe, but not so much light to cause reflections in the windows on either side of the corridor looking into labs. However, I feel that this was too much light for TV viewing.
A couple of alternatives are rope lights and optical fiber lights. There are many options available on the web, but I do not have them on hand.
The optical fiber lights are somewhat expensive, but offer many options. For example, the light generator can be remotely located to help control heat and noise. Also the light can be colored, and the colors changed for different moods.
my plan was to put a few of them on a seperate switches, so i could use either full or partial lighting depending on the circumstances.
Thanks for everyones help. Frank
I only use my gun whenever kindess fails...
You can also buy staggered strip fixtures that over lap the lamps.
http://www.cooperlighting.com/specfiles/pdf/Metalux/020722%20SNL117.pdf
I would use dimming ballasts and a fluorscent dimmer to control the lights. If you switch ever other fixture you will have bright and dark areas.
At the risk of raining on the parade, what is wrong with some judiously placed can, (recessed) lights in the ceiling with dimmers. I just got rid of some florescents in a similar placement and can't be happier.The florescents are harsh noisy and ugly. IMHO.
Bud
that was my first choice actually, a freind of my brought this up and it seemed like a pretty neat idea, i still might go that route but i like this idea better.. would be more difficult to run wire in the ceiling between the fixtures that was the main reason for the choice, and i think the glare would bother me... but i could be wrong..
Frank
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails...
The wiring in the ceiling is not a big deal (assuming an attic above).
You need a feed at the first can. then ;when you cut that hole and retrieve the feed,attach it and put another wire out of the first can. Then throw added wire in the direction of the second can. (still from the room).cut the hole and then the same routine until you get to the last can. If the feed is near where you start you never have to get in the attic. easy.At most only one time in the attic.
Bud
there is a second floor bonus room above, there is plenty of room, but the joists run the wrong way, i dont know how to get around that without tearing up a lot of wall space and i didnt want to do all that.. i figured 8 or 9 lights total, that leaves 3 rows... how do i go from one to the next? i would have to drill through multiple joists with only a small can hole to work from, the ones in that row would be easy but getting to the next row would be tougher.. and this way if i dont like it the damage can be repaired fairly quickly, whereas can holes are a little tougher...
Frank
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails...
Only works good with attic...other is brain damage.(I have more than average).
Bud
if i could figure out how would send a pic... i have some old ones when we moved in. cant do current ones, wife to camera when she went to India... so no camera, and no wife or son for a few more weeks :(
Frank
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails...
I would second (or third) the recommendations on the following:
get a color temp that pleases you
get high CRI lamps
get high quality electronic ballasts to avoid the flickering and buzzing of mag ballasts. Not all electronic ballasts are buzz free - some 'shop lights' that I got at HD with T8/EBs are noisy.
get T8 lamps instead of T12. More lumens per watt (output per input) and better light quality. Energy usage will be about 25% less, too.
get dimming ballasts if you can find 'em. (you'll probably have to go to a specialty lighting store)
If you can't get dimming ballasts, you could potentially tandem-wire two-lamp fixtures in pairs. For example, if you have two adjacent two lamp fixtures, set up the ballasts so that each one runs one lamp in each fixture. Then put 1/2 of the ballasts on each of two light switches. That way, you can turn on one group of ballasts or both, have two light levels, and no light/dark spots. You may need to lengthen the wires provided with the ballasts, if so, check the grade/rating of the insulation to make sure it's appropriate for the high voltage side of fluorescents. One potential drawback is that this might just wind up with two lighting levels - bright and way too bright!
Also, I would recommend looking at fixtures with a reflector instead of a typical fluorescent strip fixture. If you just make your cove out of pine, a lot of the lumens leaving your lamps will not make it out into the room.
You may want to look at some incandescent options for the cove, for example the halogen type under-cabinet lights. Dimming will be easier and light quality will be better.
If you really want to nerd it up, there are lighting simulation packages available from different lighting manufacturers (free, I think), you could simulate the setup you are thinking of building.
thanks for all the input there, i am still not sure which way i will i havent spent anything yet so not committed to anything, i was going to paint the insides white thinking that would help reflectivity, if i use two strips i will have to make the bays wider... i was goin to use 1x4 but might go x6 if i use 2 lights, i like the wiring in tandem idea though... and maybe just run two bays parallel on two walls and not all the way around... I can always add more. not sure yet , if i could get a dimmer that would be perfect. But i was going to put a couple 1 footers at the rear corners for night/mood lighting i think would be ok... thanks so much everyone...
Frank
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails...