Replies

1. 
   djohan | Nov 10, 2007 02:17am | #1

   Haven't ever run into one of those, even here in over-regulated California.  Sounds a bit like a second septic tank in the system.  I'm trying to figure out what potential gain this is going to give you.  If the septic tank is properly installed and maintained, the effluent shouldn't be any different out of one tank or twenty in line as long as the system works as advertised.  Some people forget to pump a tank on a regular basis and then the solids fill the tank and then push down into the leach field.  Too much of this will kill the leach field and the entire system has to be redesigned and redug.

   The answer to your question is probably in the hands of someone who installs septic systems in your jurisdiction.  Ask the people at the desk in your city or county planning or engineering department for a list of installers in your area.  They will know who installs septic sytems well and within local codes.  Believe me, the inspecters know who is good and who isn't.  Some jurisdictions require "engineered" septic systems where soils or other conditions make installing septic systems tricky.  If your authority is requiring an "engineered" system, then you must employ a registered soils engineer or the authority will not approve your system.  I have an engineered  system because my perk rate is almost non-existent.  For a three bedroom house, I have 1200 linear feet of leach trench.  Believe me, you don't want to pay for that system

   Good luck...

   Denny

    

    

2. 
   Stuart | Nov 10, 2007 03:28am | #2

   For reference, here is the link to the Multi-flo website:

   http://www.consolidatedtreatment.com/multiflo.asp

   The design manual and owner's manual can be downloaded in .pdf format here:

   http://www.consolidatedtreatment.com/resources.asp

   I've seen a few of them installed around Minnesota and they seem to work fine.

    

1. 
   DanH | Nov 10, 2007 04:21pm | #6

   Unfortunately, there's little assurance that these will be maintained any better than the old-fashioned sand filters that did essentially the same thing.Maintenance is the real issue.
   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

1. 
   Kgmz | Nov 10, 2007 10:16pm | #7

   I guess that would depend on the jurisdiction. Around here they have strict rules regarding ATU's and they have to be inspected yearly and maintained by a certified O & M specialist. Then a report has to be turned in to the local health department. If a report is not turned in and you then do nothing about getting the yearly inspection and eport done, then the health department will step in a get it done for you at much more expense and penalties.

1. 
   DanH | Nov 11, 2007 01:43am | #8

   Yeah, lots of these things are basically attempts to keep the leach field from getting clogged if the tank isn't pumped regularly. If they have the municipal balz to force people to maintain them they probably don't need them -- just pumping the tank is 95% of the job.
   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

1. 
   JimB | Nov 11, 2007 02:25am | #9

   That is correct in part:  additional treatment beyond just a septic tank will definitely help the drainfield last longer.  However, the real impetus for additional/advanced treatment is to allow the use of areas not suitable for a typical "conventional" septic tank/drainfield system. 

   Systems like the Multiflo produce a cleaner effluent (less BOD, fewer suspended solids, lower bacteria counts and sometimes less nitrogen), allowing them to work successfully, with less chance of polluting groundwater.  So they can often be used when the groundwater table, rock, or other soil features are shallower than allowed for conventional systems.  Often, they need a smaller absorption field to dispose of the effluent.

   The downside, of course, is increased cost for installation and usually increased maintenance requirements.  As with any part of building, there are trade-offs in selecting systems.

2. 
   DanH | Nov 11, 2007 03:31am | #10

   But I think one big motivating factor on the part of TPTB is that they'll clog before the drainfield and force some sort of maintenance. But I've seen sand filters bypassed, and no doubt these things will be too, given human nature.
   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

3. 
   JimB | Nov 12, 2007 01:56am | #13

   I guess I sort of represent TPTB, and I hadn't thought about it from that perspective, but I've got to admit that definitely might be a result. 

   And yep, I've seen some treatment units by-passed when the owners decided that the maintenance was too expensive or too much trouble--sometimes because they didn't really understand what they were getting.

4. 
   DanH | Nov 12, 2007 07:14am | #14

   Yeah, kinda like people used to remove the pollution controls from cars, on the theory that pollution controls cost economy/performance.
   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

3. 
   Kgmz | Nov 10, 2007 09:28am | #3

   The MultiFlo is just one of many aerobic treatment units (ATU's) on the market. We don't install MultiFlo's over here but have done Bio Microbics Fast systems, Nibblers and Nibbler Jr's.

   What they do is use air and a large surface area to help the good bacteria digest the bad stuff. And when sized correctly and maintained properly the waste water that comes out is very clean compared to normal septic system, and since it is so clean a smaller drainfield can then be used. In fact in some jurisdictions they will allow the wastewater to be used for drip irrigation.

   But they are expensive a typical new residential system installed is a minimum of $10,000 and up, larger commercial systems in the under 3,000 gal per day category is around $60,000 to $80,000. These prices are for new systems including tanks, pumps, piping, wiring, and drainfield. Yearly maintenance for a residential unit is around $150 to $200.

    

   Certified septic installer for Pierce County, Washington and the State of Oregon.

1. 
   BillAbell | Nov 10, 2007 02:24pm | #4

   Thanks for the info that is a great help. When you say it is $10,000 to install the system does that include the entire job including the drainfield and the regular septic tank? I could be wrong but the way it was explained to me everything goes into a regular septic tank and then into the multi flow and then the drainfield. Thanks again.

   Bill

2. 
   BillAbell | Nov 10, 2007 02:29pm | #5

   Sorry I should have read your message more carefully-the $10,000 is for the whole system - residential. Thanks.

   Bill

3. 
   caseyr | Nov 11, 2007 04:02am | #12

   A slight and temporary diversion of the thread...Do you know if Oregon is doing anything at present to allow for gray water systems? When I checked about 5 years ago, I was told that they were not allowed but were under consideration by the state.

4. 
   Terry | Nov 11, 2007 03:48am | #11

   I had one of these in a house in Indiana.  In the winter, the air from outside that was being pumped into the tank encouraged the mixture to freeze.  This stalled the motor and eventually, the toilet in the house overflowed when it was flushed.  The fustrating part was that there was nothing I could do at that point to fix the situation.  I have had regular septic systems on several other houses including one in Michigan without ever having this type of problem.

   Terry