need help to eliminate floor squeaks !!!
chain of events: new construction;WI60 I joists, 14″;16″ o.c.;3/4″ t&g advantec sub floor; approx 16 ft spans; no hardwood installed yet.
floor system installed. subfloor glued and nailed with ring shank nails approx 6 intervals. first floor …. solid, no squeaks. seond floor squeaks in various loations in two rooms and hall.
Entire floor screwed down (both floors) with dek screws, 6 in intervals. first floor no change, no squeaks. seond floor .. NO CHANGE, STILL SQUEAKS in same places!
????????????????????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what now? completely baffled.
Replies
Any DUCTS in the floor? I chased one forever with nails and screws, it was a duct rubbing.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
I had one that was a 2" waste line in a tight hole.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
toolbob,
Sometimes the joist hangers rub and squeak.
KK
We had a couple of projects with squeaky hangers. After tearing out a couple of ceiling sections, we glue all our hangers as we install now. No squeaks for the last five years.
Platform frame or top hangers?
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Sometimes squeaks can be traced to the nails going through bottom plate of wall to the subfloor. If you find that to be the problem, it is possible to cut them with a sawzall, if you can get a wedge under the wall plate. This is a situation where you need to be super careful about electrical and plumbing in the path of the sawzall.
Bob,
I have various 2nd floor squeaks in my own (tract) house.
I found that all of the joist hangers in the second floor were installed with ROOFING NAILS. The squeaks are the top flange of the hangers moving on the nails.
Is your first floor ceiling still open?
Good luck.
Jim x 3
no ducts anywhere
first floor ceiling still open (but not for long)
squeaky areas are in center of rooms, not near walls
actually they seem to be in proximity to lvl and lam beams
"actually they seem to be in proximity to lvl and lam beams"So, in what manner are the I-joists joined to those beams?Flush with hangers?
if so, what kind of hanger and how fastened?Or do they ride over top of the beams?If so, how are they fastened or are they fastened?What does the engineered framing plan show?Were they installed according to that plan?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
all ijoists are hung flush with usp top strap hangers, fastened with bostitch strap nailer/nails
thanks for the input, im going to start looking ino some of these things tomorrow at first light.
please keep the suggestions comming! this forum is great, i dont feel the desparation of that 'alone' feeling anymore. ill feel even beter when i get this solved!
OK, now we be getting somewhere.It is common for I-joists seated in hangers to squeak unless you use a dab of glue in the seat of the hanger. If you can't inject glue or wax, then talcum powder might possibly help.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Scented talc or unscented?Next week we get a poster"why does my house smell like babies when the floor squeeks"
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
I should add the disclaimer that some of the cheaper brands of baby powder have asbestos in it too
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I always add glue to the joists hangers before setting the I-joists.I believe that will help with squeaks at the hangers.Joe Carola
I had a similar problem that was caused by not using adhesive in the hangers. But I still have some squeaks that are caused by the plywood T&G joint squeaking when you step in just the right place near the joint. I think that when I get around to installing the finish floor this problem will go away.
I'll bet against that one. Fix it now.glue a block under the joint and screw the ply to it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ya, you are right and that is a good idea.
those squeeks are most likely in the proximity of the hangars. sometimes the end of the I-joist will rub on the ledger/beam.
my yard rep told me years ago to leave an eight between the two. been doing it that way with no squeeks
We put construction adhesive IN the Simpson hanger that the I joist sets into as they can move slightly back and forth in them and squeak.
If you can get to them you might shoot some adhesive into each one...can't hurt.
O R Mike:I use construction adhesive that way as well (unfortunately I didn't build my own house).Rather than shooting some in now, or wedging or whatever, I feel finding the specific cause is the best approach. I like to concentrate on one repeatable squeak and localize it, probably from below. When you know exactly what causes the problem its a lot easier to fix it.Piffin is headed in the right direction.And after its fixed then Toolbob can shoot some adhesive in - can't hurt.
Yeah...sounds like there are quite a few variables....hope it doesn't take too much effort to find....
Can you have someone else walk around on the floor while you are below? Easier to pinpoint the squeaky areas that way.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Those of us who grew up with Popular Science back in the 50s and 60s remember Smoky Yunick, their resident mechanic.In those way-pre-computer days, one of his favorite tools was a doctor's stethoscope. There are lots of easy home-made cheats, but a job like this would be all it takes for me to go out and buy a real one.Splice on an extra 4' of rubber tubing, and about 4' of rigid gas line or brake line, and start poking around while your friend walks upstairs.And squirt some glue into those hangers no matter what.AitchKay
Sometimes the nail through the sheathing "shines" right next to the joist and causes squeeks through the rubbing. Deffinitely glue all hangers and make sure proper nails used in hangers.
Is the squeak in the floor or the floor-wall junction?
[I see later posts put the squeak in the middle of the floor.]
Edited 12/4/2009 9:16 pm by DanH
the squeaks are in the middle of the floor. a very large lam beam passes through the center of the room, with i joists attached to it perpandicularly(sp?). at some point smaller lvl beams also attach to the lam perpandicularly(beginning a transition to a cantelever area, and successive change of direction of i joists running parallel to the lam from that point on, and now attaching to the lvls) i hope u got that, it seems confussing to me, and im the one who built it. the squeaks are all confined to that transition area, i would say about 200 sq ft.
im off to the site now, after i stop to convince my doctor he should give me an old stethoscope.
That cantilever tells me something.It is hard to use I-joists properly to do a cantilave. Lot of extra blocking, infill, and such is needed.So any of that stuff should be glued too to keep things from sque3aking.and if you didn't do it all properly with all those extra scraps, then you could be adding strange stresses to the assembly of to individual joists to cause the noise, and even potential further failure later.This goes back to my previous ( un-answered) question - What does the engineered framing plan show and was it built that way?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've found, as others have pointed out, that I-joists in hangers can cause squeaks.
I think it's a case sometimes, of the joists being cut a little too exact..When framing with 2x stock, I always tried to get a good snug fit when butting a joist into a header or lvl. I find, tho, with I-joists, that it's actually better for them to be a little loose...1/8 to 1/4 on each end, the joist hanger has plenty to bear on, and it eliminates the possibility of the end of the joist rubbing on the lvl when it's stressed.....
Unlikely, but curious as to whether there's any blocking at mid span...I never use it with I-joists, but on the chance that you did, I've had blocking squeak at mid span when framing with regular lumber.
I've also had 1 or 2 cases, when a wall that was nailed to the floor thru ply only, and nailed to the ceiling on top, would have a squeak when the floor was walked on, the floor would flex just enough to ride on the nail that held the bottom plate to the floor....Unusual, but I've seen it.
Important: I'd heed Paul's advice on the squeak, as to fixin it now....No reason in the world that the finish UL will make it better, and it will be a whole lot harder to fix then...
Bing
agreed all that.Be nice to see a photo of this as installed with all the cantilevering and cross beams/LVLs etc.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Seen all that myself. I've also been called on having more than an 1/8 gap at the end of TJI's.
We started gluing interior walls down because of that squeek from the plat nailing into ply.