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I’m pricing some work in a historical building. There are several 100 year old mortise locksets that are in bad shape and need replacing. I of course can’t find anything that’s the same size with the doorknob in the same location to fit the old openings. Went through a couple of locksmith supply catalogs and still nothing.
As long as the look is “traditional”, any nice lock will work. I’m considering filling the mortise with a solid wood block and just boring it for a modern lockset but I know that I can’t make a block exactly the same size and shape as the old drilled and chisled mortise. Urethane glue expands and will probably glue this well but I’ll still have voids that will fight me as I’m drilling or mortising for the new lockset(haven’t decided what kind of lock to install yet).
Anyone done this? These are painted doors so any damage I do can be filled and sanded.
Replies
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Hi Ryan. How bad are the mortise sets? If it's just springs a good locksmith can replace them. I'll bet they are black case 'Corbin' or similar. I've changed a few in my own house (70 years old). It's not too hard once you get over the shock of having the spring release when you open the case ('sproing').
Today's version is made for Crown City Hardware (800) 950-1047 http://www.crowncityhardware.com (you have to be patient with these guys, allow time & $$$) by a metal specialty company (email me for the name & number). This is a very high quality mortise set similar in design to the older Corbins. While the strike might cover the old mortise, matching the size exactly is unlikely and you'll probably have to shim, etc. That's why I suggest seeing if they can be fixed first.
Just for fun, here are some related links from my favorites file:
http://www.eddonaldson.com/mortise.htm#Original Antique Mortise Locks
http://homearts.com/bvah/18perib7.htm
http://www.antiquehardware.com/
http://www.oldhousesalvage.com/
Jeff
*Ryan, are you nuts? Don't toss those old locks, they're gold even if you don't want to use them. Jeff is right, try to reuse them. If you don't have a locksmith who is interested in repairing them, most salvage companies and restoration people have connections with people who restore hardware. There's nothing better than old hardware. Save it.SHG
*Now, now, SHG, some things actuallyb dowear out and can't be fixed. I've seen latchbolts so polished by strikes that they will cut your hand if you're not careful. If important parts, like latchbolts, that can't be replaced are really worn out, there's no sense trying to keep the lock going. Springs, however, as noted, can be had for almost anything.Jeff
*Be adventurous Ryan. Take those locksets out and open them up. The house I grew up in, built in 1903, had a bunch of those old goodies and there was not one of them that was safe from my little hands. They are amazingly simple in construction and if any of the parts are worn to the point of slipping or jamming, and you can't find parts - MAKE THEM. A little bar stock, a bench vise and a couple of files to touch up the rough cutouts. Besides, what else are you going to do now that it's getting cold outside. Not only will you enjoy making something BUT you can get paid for sitting on your butt doing that specialty restoration work.
*Here's another site that could help;Ball and BallAnd, Old-House Journal has a Restoration Directory you can find at major bookstores or order direct 800-931-2931 ($14.95)
*Ryan,An architectual salvage yard may have what you need. They just about give them away down in New Orleans. I could not find the one in N.O. but found this http://www.historichouseparts.com/door5.htm. I have rebuilt a few also.KK
*Ryan, Ralph stole my thunder. I started "fixing" these when I was about 8 or 9. Most just need a good cleaning. At the very worst, I'm sure combining the parts from a few "donors" would leave most in working order, and put the new hardware in less conspicious areas. I believe Renovators carries new, but they are priced like gold. WD-40 works wonders. I have a few in storage waiting for me to mortise the doors I stole from the trash bin a few jobs ago. Jeff
*I'm sure I could fix these. I actually rebuilt a bunch in my own house and make keys for every one. But htey don't want them fixed. They've got this idea that they/re loose and they stick and they're no good throw them away they're too old. Just trying to give the customer what the customer wants.
*Ryan,Take then home, fix then, clean them up and bring them back to the customer. Tell the customer what a great find you made in some beautifully restored locks!These things really are a cinch to fix. Limited moving parts. Most common problems are broken/missing springs or build-up of paint or residue on the latch. In rare cases, a piece of the mechanism may be broken, so some spares for parts may be in order. These locks are easy as heck to find here. Any architectural salvage or antique dealer will have them. Many old homes slated for demo will give them up too. So much good old stuff goes down with those old homes.Pete Draganic
*Out of an old Renovator's catalog. These are with the knobs, either scalloped glass, or white porcelain.Two sizes 4 1/2 x 4 and 5 x 3 1/4. From the pic, I'm guessing the first number is the depth, with the second being the height. This cat doesn't have an internet address. The # is (800)659-2211. The prices are from '99. I'd guess they are on the web by now. Hope this helps. They also have a bunch of door plates and cover plates that may do some good. Jeff
*Had a couple of minutes to kill so ran a quick search on Mortise Locksets. Lots of hits, many of them appeared to be commercial locksets, however. Also found a site labeled "Renovator's" that is perhaps the one Jeff referred to:http://www.renovators-resource.com/For the sites that listed prices for mortise locksets, $300+ seemed pretty common. The first few sites I glanced at that appeared to be residential in nature:http://www.cabin26.com/http://www.eddonaldson.com/mortise.htmhttp://www.clementhardware.com/locks-ext-mort.shtmlhttp://www.yalesecurity.com/products/mortise_top.cfm(For the following site, you need to enter "mortise" in their search function)http://www.antiquehardware.com/Merchant/merchant.mvWhen I had problems with the mortise lockset at a house I was working on, I located the oldest locksmith shop in town and they had all the pieces that I needed for it.
*I haven't looked lately, but there was an American company (whose name I can't recall right now) still building mortise locksets for renovation use as late as a year ago. I bought a couple here in Canada. The lock unit and plate were built slightly oversize in height so they would fill the space occupied by any of the old units with a little work. I can see the packaging in my mind, green background, gold type, blister pack. Good hardware. Good price, too. I'll see what I can find out.A couple of years ago I put one into an exterior door for somebody who loved the idea of pulling out the old bit key to get into his house.Ron
*Ryan, you can also find a shitload of different styles from any supplier who carries European hardware. All of the ones we use come from Austria or Germany.Gabe
*I did a quick search. It's http://www.renovatorssupply.com or it will be after "construction". They refer the the #800. Jeff
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I'm pricing some work in a historical building. There are several 100 year old mortise locksets that are in bad shape and need replacing. I of course can't find anything that's the same size with the doorknob in the same location to fit the old openings. Went through a couple of locksmith supply catalogs and still nothing.
As long as the look is "traditional", any nice lock will work. I'm considering filling the mortise with a solid wood block and just boring it for a modern lockset but I know that I can't make a block exactly the same size and shape as the old drilled and chisled mortise. Urethane glue expands and will probably glue this well but I'll still have voids that will fight me as I'm drilling or mortising for the new lockset(haven't decided what kind of lock to install yet).
Anyone done this? These are painted doors so any damage I do can be filled and sanded.