I’M thinking about changing the motor oil in the work van in the morning.I’ve heard about this new synthetic oil,and was wundering if anybody has used it ,kind of pricey.Any pros or cons?
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Synthetic oil has been around for many years; maybe it would help if you could specifiy which particular "new" brand were you interested in ?
PS. I use the blend
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I just heard about it on some cable station.It was news to me .Said it protected the engine better and you did'nt have to change the oil as often.
Then I don't know how to answer. The big brand name synthetics (like Mobile 1/Castrol) are probably all fine oils, I wouldn't go near an off-brand with a 10' pole. They claim longer oil life, but do you really want to risk it ? I use a blend and the standard oil change interval..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I use a synth. blend also. One of the selling points about synth. oil is longer intervals between changes. I use it,hopeing to get as many miles possible out of the motor.I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.
One thing about longer intervals between oil changes.
an oil needs changing for 2 reasons, breakdown of the oil and contamination(dirt).
Synthetic oil combats the breaking down but does nothing about the contaminants.
If you really want to go longer between changes themn you shoul put in an after market oil filter system.
Oil filters (and the lubrication systems) on passenger vehicles are not all that great.
They have minimal oil capacity and fair to midland filtering ability.
if you compare the lube system on a pass. car to a semi., 5quarts of oil vs.5+ Gallons and a coffee mug sized filter compared to one the size of a small trash can.
There are good reasons why a semi's engine will last for Millions of miles.
Good lubrication is one of them.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
I have had good luck with Mobile 1... When I worked for GM I was able to view two test engines side by side, both with the same amount of hours on them. One engine used Mobil 1 while the other used a standard petroleum. You could actually see the bearing wear on the engine that didn't use the mobile 1, whereas the Mobile 1 engine there was no "noticeable" wear. I would recommend using a synthetic type filter if you are going to switch to a synthetic. Oil filters can make a big difference in the longevity of your engine. Make sure you get one with a Anti-Drainback Valve, this helps when starting your vehicle, which they say puts the most wear on your engine. Stay away from Fram, it's junk. This page has a good review of most filters: http://tinyurl.com/6gn7xAll BMW's and new Corvettes come with Mobil 1 and recommend the use of synthetic... for whatever that's worth.I go about 5k mile between oil changes and the oil still looks clean if I am using a Mobil 1 filter with a synthetic.Is it actually worth the extra cost?? I can't say for sure, but from what I have seen I don't see how it can hurt and if you go from changing your oil every 3k miles to 5k or even 7k the cost is about the same or less if you count your time.
"You could actually see the bearing wear on the engine that didn't use the mobile 1, whereas the Mobile 1 engine there was no "noticeable" wear."
I do believe this, but you have to ask yourself, have you every hear of an engine failing due to an failure of the oil?
How long are you going to keep this truck? I bet the time it takes for an engine part to fail due to wear or oil related issue, you would have sold it.
The best thing you can do is change it regularly with a quality oil. IMHO
" have you every hear of an engine failing due to an failure of the oil? "depends how you define failure.Carbon build up, scoring from excess gas in the oil after ring and sleeve wear, sludge blocking ports and slowing oil flow, excessive heat warping heads or burning bearings due to poor friction reduction, or any of a hundred other things that impair performance?These are all common with regular oil
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I have a friend that uses synthetic. He changes the oil at 5,000 miles and changes just the filter every 2500 miles (in between oil changes). I could never get into this. I use regular (Quaker State) oil and change oil and filter every 3,000 miles. I use Puralator Pure1 oil filters. I read some study that said they were best. I have noticed that when I do the oil changes that the oil comes out almost as clean as it went in since I've switched to the Puralator filters.
I change the oil when it smells burnt or I can't remember the last time.
Had an 8yo datsun 4x4 in L. A., CA. It used to get about 1000 miles to a quart until I put Slick 50 in it and switched to Syntec. Consumption dropped to about 3-5K per quart?!?!? Cool, I thought, change the oil every time it's a quart low.
Got this job required me to drive 500-1K miles a week. Being used to going 6 months without checking oil or changing it I found myself on the freeway with NO, zero, nada, oil pressure. About 15 miles later, I pulled into work and between the four of us we had enough money to buy 1 quart of cheap oil.
45 miles later I got home grabbed some money and started pouring oil in the motor. 3 1/2 quarts worth!
Consumption went back up to 1500 miles to a quart. Gas milage never did change the whole time I owned it.
I used Frams since they were known as the best. Guess I'll have to switch to Motorcraft now. Definately gonna keep on keepin' on with Slick 50 and Syntec. Gooood Stuf.
SamT
Synthetics were developed around WW2 or shortly thereafter. They were necessary to handle higher heat in jet engines for the Korean conflict and saw common use then.
raw crude oil has about 600 different hydrocarbon molecules. They refine this down to the 30-40 ones best for each type of oil when you buy regular oil or lube for your car. But of those blended for that purpose, twenty or so of those molecules will be likely to oxidize/carmelize from high temperatures. That makes for sludge and carbon buildup and less lubw-higher temps yet.
synthetics are formulated from three or four molecules exactly developed for the job at hand, so the breakdown is practically all but eliminated. It is also planned to be a much higher dertergent than regular, encapsulating and keeping dust in suspension. Synthetic molecules are smaller too, so in some older engines, there is a higher chance of leaks appearing, both because they can find a flaw in the seals ansd because sludge will be cleaned up.
It is not uncommon for a synthetic to run 25,000 miles without breakdown, but it is wise to use a high quality filter and change it every five thousand, adding enouygh oil to replace what goes out with the filter.
Amzoil is a synthetic that has been on the market since the early seventies, IIRC. Mobile One used to be just a blend of 25% synthetic and regular oil, then they made it all synthetic, but recently, they changed back.
Castrol is 100% synthetic.
the biggest advantage of synthetics other than the engine klasting longer, is that it will start easier in cold temps and the better coefficient of friction allows the engine to deliver more power, with the result that you get better gas mileage.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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one of the best syntic right now is that purple. cannot remeber the name but it has word purple in it. Like they say it the filter not the syn. oil .
Brown,I think you mean Royal Purple... I have heard good things about that also, but never tried it.Mobil still makes 100% pure synthetic... I currently use the truck and SUV formula. It's a fully synthetic blend.I use the Amsoil for my 2-stroke mix so I can use one mix for all engines. Never had a problem with it and much less smoke.
Thanks to all for the info.PURPLE huh? Sounds like a Decorator got involved.
Piffin, I think you have it backwards - Mobil 1 is and always has been 100% synthetic, while Castrol changed to a synthetic/petroleum blend. I don't know if they (Castrol) have gone back to 100% synthetic.
Maybe so on the Castrol, but when Mobile One first came out way back when, the laberl read synthetic BLEND, not 100% synthetic, and tests did show it to have a mix of both.
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Castrol is not an oil it is a brand name.You can get Castrol Oil, (GTX, and non-detergent along others).
You can get a Castrol 100% Synthetic (Syntec)
you can get a Castrol sythetic/oil blend (Syntec Blend).And also Castrol oil compressor oil, brake fuild, etc, etc.
OK, I knew about the first two, I guess Overknight was talking about the third one - the blend
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FWIW, I have used Valvoline Dura Blend for about 12 years, all fairly high mileage vehicles. No smoke, doesn't seem to be as dark when I change it and much smoother cold weather startups here in Milw, WI. Before I switched, I hated the sound in the middle of winter @ -15 when I started them. My truck is originally from AZ- 1990 Silverado w/5.7L TBI that had been driven a lot before I got it just over 3 years ago and I average over 20K/yr. I figure a conservative average of 15K/yr before I got it, so when my 60K+ is added it has over 225K. I replaced the oil seals in 2002 and there's no smoke at all. I check compression annually and that's very even. I use the AC PF1218 long filter and have had good luck with those. I saw a review of oil filters by someone at Milwaukee School of Engineering and his conclusion was that FRAM and the other filters from their supplier were bad, NAPA and WIX were about the best for an inexpensive brand and most others were just OK. The premium filters were all rated very good to excellent.More important than the blend of oil is:Keep it fresh and clean. Never change the oil without changing the filter.Never overheat the motor. If you do, change the oil immediately after(or ASAP) due to thermal breakdown.If the motor will sit for a long time, change the oil and filter, then run it briefly afterward so the motor has fresh oil on the internal parts. This applies more to occasional or seasonal use vehicles like classic cars/trucks and boats, or anything that is stored over the winter.If the motor manufacturer calls for oil with specific grades, use that as the minimum. Look on the oil bottle for the codes (usually two letter designations). Keep the motor running efficiently and make sure the air filter is clean and free of restrictions. If the motor runs rich, there will be unburned gas getting into the oil due to incomplete combustion, breaking down the viscosity. This weakens the oil film, which is what keeps the metal parts from actually being in contact with each other in the first place when it's running. Using oil that's too thin does the same thing. Make sure the motor maintains the correct operating temperature. If it's too cold, it's not as efficient and needs more gas to be delivered. If it's too hot, there's a chance of running too lean and burning it up, as well as the viscosity issues. Bill- Castrol was originally made from castor bean oil, don't know if they switched to petroleum based since I haven't used it in years.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Even though synthetics have lower viscosity and higher flow, they have much better film strength than regular petro oils
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Also when you change your oil, Fill up the new filter before you install it.
Otherwise when you start you engine, it will run oil starved for the time it takes for the filter to fill up.
Bad
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Thanx for the link[filter test] Chad. I've been using Fram for a long time,even those Teflon ones.
Never knew they were junk.I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.
Agreed- fill the filter to eliminate dry starts. Unfortunately, Ford had a "better idea" when they mounted the filter on the side of the block. What were they thinking????????? Yeah, I know there are filter relocation kits, but why should the consumer be stuck with installing that on their car, back when they mounted the filter there? Or boat for that matter, since a lot of skiboats, cruisers and runabouts had 351 motors in them.Synthetic does have lower viscosity, but if gas gets into it, the effects are the same. Dilute oil and a lot of wear. Definitely better thermal properties, though. And keeps the particles in suspension better. I used Mobil 1 for a while, but when I switched cars at one point, I decided to try the blend and got basically the same results at a lower price. I'm not driving a performance vehicle, but getting the oil to the top end faster on cold starts, reducing wear and better gas mileage are definitely worth a slightly higher cost.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Framer,I used to use Fram too. It's Hard paying almost $10 for a filter a filter, but now that I know what's inside a Fram I doubt I would ever buy another one. You can really feel the weight difference between the two filters.
You are paying $10 for filters or the Fram costs that much? Start shopping around if they are that much. I buy AC and they're not even $5.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
the Mobil 1 filters are around $9 - $10... Haven't been able to find them any cheaper. I usually see the Fram for around $4 or $5.
Years ago, I decided to put Mobil 1 into a 69 dodge van (beater). It had a 360 with a coupla hundred thousand miles on it. I reasoned that I'd never have to change the oil again.
The stuff leaked out through every tiny breach in the engine seals. I never had oil leaks before I tried the stuff and didn't have any when I switched back to regular oil.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Now you know why. the sludge was gumming up the leaks untill you put in the higher detergent synthetic
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DPR,
In my uniformed opinion, the type of oil is hardly as important as how you treat the thing is. I use whatever the oil change place uses as their standard.
I never just start up and drive away. Let the thing warm up a little.
I never just shut off and get out. Let the thing settle a few seconds first.
Watch the temperature guage. If you let it overheat or run very hot for a long period, Get an oil change soon thereafter.
Minimize short trips. more so in the winter. if the engine doesn't reach operating temperature and stay there long enough it won't burn off any condensation.
So far: '91 VW Corrado G-60 128k when we sold it. No between change consumption. Not a drop!
'93 Dodge Dakota. 80k when I sold it because it was a piece of junk. Maybe 1/2 Quart every change (every 7.5k)
'94 F-150 straight six 300k when the transmission gave up. Used around a Quart every 2K but then again it used around a quart every 2k when I got it brand new.
'98 Ford Windstar. 135k and used maybe 1/4 quart between changes ( every 6k).
Hope to get similar outcomes for my '03 ranger and '03 explorer.
None of them ever failed inspection because of emissions and none ever needed any internal engine repairs.
Synthetic still breaks down and still contaminates. One big thing about them is that with more uniform sized molecules you should see better mileage.
Why do you wait to get out after shutting it off? It won't help or hurt to get out later. The oil will take whatever time it needs to go from the head(s) to the pan and nothing on a car or truck needs you to stay there because what little movement you cause does nothing to the vehicle.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Highfigh,
I should have been a little more clear. When I arrive where ever it is I'm driving, I don't just pull up, shut off the car, and jump out. I allow it to idle maybe 30-45 seconds. Then shut it down. It's an old habit that comes from owning old motorcycles and cars.
Older enginge designes don't all distribute oil evenly at different RPMs. Not to mention that an unbaffled oil pan could let a pump run dry for a second or two ( If you owned an early eighties Firebird or Camaro you could actually get the oil light to come on if you cornered too hard in one direction). When I shut down I like to have nice coat of oil on everything and those 30 seconds or so allow for that.
Turbo cars and trucks are different. since a turbo spins at around 20,000 RPM or higher, it creates a ton of heat. most share oil with the engine. If the engine is shut off while that turbo is going, lets say 40, 000 RPM, the oil supply is shut off and the oil in there is soon cooked. Lots of turbos die this way. Some now have auxilary oil pumps that run on electricity until the turbo winds down.
While that 30 or so seconds might not be needed with todays high tech stuff, remember, lots of American cars use engines designed when Ronald Reagan was president. Some are even older.
And in the end, I'm a creature of habit. I'll keep doing it as long as my cars and trucks keep lasting like they have so far.
Remember the bad rep Quaker State got back in the '70s? "It'll clog up your motor" and so on. I used to do Robert's thing back when I drove big trucks...always let it run a bit before shut down...good for the turbo.I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.
Well, hopefully that oil has already been changed by now but I will add some thoughts - probably reiterating what others have said and making additional comments.
For the same viscosity range, i.e. 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 etc., the main advantage that a synthetic or a synthetic blend (to a lesser extent) oil has over a "normal" motor oil is its inherent ability to withstand higher temperatures over a prolonged time. So, unless your work van is pulling a trailer in Arizona (I see you're from the Buckeye state) or climbing the moutains in wherever during the summer, I would see no advantage to the use of a synthetic or synthetic blend. Automotive oils are made up of a base stock and an additive package. The additive package makes up anywhere from about 14 to 17% of the oil that's in the bottle and, although it is tuned to the particular base stock, most add packs for automotive oil are suprisingly similar. They are all manufactured to pass (hopefully with lots of room to spare) SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) oil performance tests. All other factors being reasonably equal, a synthetic blend would fair better than a straight petroleum oil and a full synthetic would fair better than the blend. But I still believe there are better places to spend your maintenance dollars.
The build quality of automotive engines AND the oil they use has increased - particularly as emissions regulations have become more stringent. The old addage of changing the oil every three months or three thousand miles does not apply to today's products.
Eric S.
"I would see no advantage to the use of a synthetic or synthetic blend."Imagine this-
Your truck goes from 11 MOG to 14MPG after changing to synthetic. At say $1.75/gal, that saves you fourty seven cents for every gallon you burn. or, if you can go 5000 miles instead of 2000 between changes ( a modest increase) you spend less on changes labor and time held up.or you save more in gasoline in the course of a 2000 mile change than the cost of the syntheticor you hAve fewer mechanical breakdowns due to better lubricationI think it pays you to use synthetic. There is no net cost.
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Increasing the oil change interval in the ratio you use as an example (5/2) would, in & by itself, offset the cost of a brand-name full synthetic over a "conventional" motor oil. Some are willing to do this, others not. Probably the majority of current and former car nuts/gear heads like myself and you(?) would increase the change interval but not necessarily to the extent of your example. It really boils down to how and where the car/truck is driven and the basic mechanical condition of the vehicle. Several years ago Mercedes installed sensors in the oil pan to signal the "oil's condition" and, at about the same time, GM installed a chip which read data from the engine's onboard computer to mathematically determine when the oil should be changed. Whether or not either of these manufacturers still do this has gone into my retirement era and hence my interest has changed from engines and lube oil to fibercement siding and fibercement siding and fibercement siding.
Re the gas mileage increase: The difference in engine efficiency for equal oil viscosity levels, whether that oil be a synthetic, a blend, or conventional is within the range of normal measurement error, i.e. negligible, IMO. Many thousands of hours of engine endurance testing (large diesels) which I have both performed and overseen leads me to that belief. I'm not challenging your mileage increase (if in fact that was a real-life example you provided) because this is really not the time or place - I'll meet you out back behind the chassis dyno (grin).
Lots of times we do things to cars which (by themselves) promise a boost in mileage and unintentionally forget the other little things we did at the same time like maybe checking that left rear tire and reinflating it to spec (30 psig) or giving it a little more than spec and reducing the rolling friction or driving with a softer pedal some of the time.
Seasons Greetings to you and skol for all the help you have provided me and countless others with their other problems.
Eric S.
Eric,
I'm not an engineer or a big fan of Synthetics but I will relay this.
My Brother-in Law was driving my old F-150 with the straight six and a 5 speed. A good truck but a gas hog.
After a quicky oilchange at Wal-Mart with synthetic oil, he gained about 1.5 to 2 miles per gallon over his commute. Same tires, smae tire pressure, same road. as he tracked each tankful, he confirmed it.
Not sure why, don't care. I have avoided the stuff like the plague. Early on, I dumped some in a motorcycle where the clutch and transmissioin share the oil and it fried my very expensive clutch in about one moto. Never used the stuff again.
Ultimately, it's up to the vehicle owner, but there's enough data out there to make an informed decision. I happen to use Valvoline DuraBlend and have noticed:Better fuel economy, smoother running, faster and smoother cold startup, more stable operating temperature. I burn no oil, see no smoke and add nothing between oil changes. This, on a truck that I estimate has well over 200K, first in AZ, now in WI. Before this truck, I had a '78 Regal, '87 Cutlass, and a '92 Le Sabre. They all came with different oils and I drove them on that oil before changing it. The difference was immediate and consistant. In my years as a marine mechanic, what I learned at technical training is that some info obviously is presented because it's the company's official position and because they sell whatever they were saying improves performance/economy/emissions/etc. When we were at training for MasterCraft skiboats, we talked about oil and additives. The person doing the training does engine and engine control development work for Indmar, Mastercraft, GM and Delphi with onsite machine shop, flow benches, dyno rooms and operational testing. He didn't recommend any particular oil or filter, even though Indmar and Mastercraft ship with Pennzoil. Basically a marketing deal. His opinion, based on empirical testing and personal experience from before he became a P.E. is that the oil needs to be clean, the filter fresh, the motor shouldn't overheat, regular maintenance and tuneups should be performed and the gas should be good quality. He has had a large number of reps from oil additive companies show up and ask him to endorse their products. After telling them to send him some so he could do frictional loss analysis on his dyno, he would never see them again. Apparently, they aren't willing to have a third party involved.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 12/7/2004 7:09 pm ET by highfigh
I worked on VW cars for 28 years and they came out with turbo chargers in the late 1980s. They turned (at that time) from 80k to 110k rpm at full throttle. They have since reduced the size of the turbo to help get rid of turbo lag and increased the rpm to I don't know what. They came out with synthetic oil on their TDI diesel right from the factory. They used 5w-40 year round. The 5 for cold starts and the 40 for highway driving where the engine can over heat, even in the winter and cause the oil to break down. BMW uses synthetic oil also right from the factory and do not do the first oil change until 25k. That is on a new engine that is designed for it. As it was explained to me from a factory rep. The factory wants to get as much fuel mileage as possible from the engine, but some of the oils are to thin or just break down. So they are all starting to go to the synthetic oil route. I use synthetic oil in all my cars and never worried about lubrication at ant temperature. I was told that if the engine came with petroleum oil, that you should run it at least 5k on the factory oil and than you can put in synthetic oil. If you do it too soon, the engine rings will never wear in and it will burn oil until you change back and run it foe a few thousand miles. The synthetic oil lubricates much better than petroleum. VW s (up until a few years ago) had a much harder material in their engine blocks , and so could run for 300k or 400k with no problems. Providing that you took care of it. For them to burn oil was very unusual. But they also had 100 to psi oil pressure. You needed to use factory oil filters as the others would tear themselves apart in cool weather with thick oil.
During the latest generation of cars, The metals and tolerances are better so the break-in and ring seating is a thing of the past.
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Having changed numerous vehicles from regular to synthetic,I KNOW rthat I will always get an increase in fuel mileage. What I reported in example is not uncommon.Both my GMs have chip reporters to tell time's up on the oil.I would have no hesitation about going twenty thousand on the synthetic with filter changes at about 3000 if not on extreme dusty roads. Recommernded change interval is now about 6000 onmany vehicles. I realize that is for many reasons, some real and some political. The Fed govt requied longer change spans is part of it. Better metalurgy and engineering made it possible to spread that span out, as did better oils and additives in regular oils, but there is no doubt that the synthetics do at least twice as good and I know from experience that they pay for themselves. The easier starts on cold mornings is my favorite benefit this time of year and my truck whispers softly and warmly in my ear that she likes it too.;)
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The oil got changed Sunday morning.1999 E-350 extended body,55,000 mi. V-10( LUV THAT ENGINE ). Bought the PURPLE STUFF and a Premium Filter. Hope to keep the Van for a long time. I'll let everyone know if anything weird happens.
Anybody got any reccomendations for M/S or Snow tires. Always bought off-brand, get about 20-25,000 mi.. Thinking about getting some MICHLINS this time.
Well, if Robert thinks his (sorry, his brother's) F-150/300 ci/5-speed is/was a gas hog then you must think you own the farm. (grin)
Without any doubt, a quality synthetic oil in the proper viscosity grade is the best oil you can buy. Next would be the blends and then the conventionals. That truck probably wants to snuggle up with you (for a long time as you say).
I have zero experience with Michelin truck tires but there would be/is nothing BUT Michelins on my family buggies. Their quality control appears to be at least as good as anyone else's and probably better.
Eric S.
Funny as that sounds the best I ever got out of that 300 ci Straight six was 14 mpg. Then again my new ranger 3.0 liter 2 wheel drive only gets around 15 or 16
I have a '94 F-150 with the 300 six and 5 speed,too. 175,000 miles and still[knock on wood] no oil consumption to speak of.Many a day I wish for another 20-30 horsepower,she's a real dog trying to pass,school buses are a challenge. Haven't checked the mileage in while.I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.
I loved that truck. Early on I had two genrators adn two compressors and all the tools for two Crews in it and broke a spring. Took it to the shop and had the largest stiffest spring package he would put under it.
Since it already had the heaviest rear axle I could get in it and the heavy duty cooling option it turned out to be pretty tough.
It could have used 20 or 30 more horespower but it had enough torque to do the job.
The thing I like best was that it felt like a real truck. Nothing fancy.
"a quality synthetic oil in the proper viscosity grade "
Eric, how do you determine what viscocity to use?
Well, the easiest answer is that it's in your owner's manual, usually in the form of a horizontal bar graph with differing viscosities, i.e. 10W-30, 5W-20 etc. recommended depending on the range of expected ambient temperatures you're likely to experience. Today, it would not be unusual for one oil to satisfy your engine's appetite throughout the year. This portion of the Mobile 1 website, http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp , will tell you what they believe you should use and it should track with your owner's manual.
In some cases, i.e. mine in particular, where a particular car mfg recommends a 5W-20 oil and that particular vis grade is not available from Mobile 1, they give you an alternative with, I believe, some sort of a caveat.
Eric S.