Hi everyone,
We are working on a 4-story, 20-unit apt building built in 1900. The three upper levels are wood frame, all taken down to the studs. We are replacing plumbing, electrical, and HVAC with all new.
I have two questions:
1. There is an awful lot of obsolete iron pipe around: water, gas, and steam heat. Cutting it all up and taking it out is a challenge: Sawzall is slow and uses a lot of (expensive) blades, and a cutting torch somehow seems like a bad idea around wood framing. Do you guys recommend leaving all that pipe in place, or, if not, what tools / technique would you use to take it out?
2. We are considering keeping the existing cast iron waste stacks, which appear serviceable. Would you keep them or replace with ABS?
Thank you for your help,
Frederic
Edited 3/16/2007 12:02 am ET by fredo
Replies
Try using a metal cut-off wheel like a Roto-Zip, they can cut faster than a sawzall
I would replace the iron waste stacks with ABS
that's gotta be the dumbest post I've ever read here.
a rotozip recommended over a sawzaw ...
and ... replacing supposed good cast with abs!
why? U like play toys for tools and more noise in your drains?
U don't do this for a living, do you?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hey Jeff,
Greetings fellow professional.......
Sorry for the delayed response. I was on a remodel recently that involved some plumbing upgrading when I remembered this hilarious message you sent me.
For starters, I've read worse posts, like the ones with spelling errors, but my post did lack a lot of explaning, quite frankly I didn't thing anyone would get so offended! But I admire your attitude since it shows you're passionate about what you do like I am.
Anyway, I'll explain the logic here, a Rotozip with a cut-off wheel attachment is super usefull when it comes to getting into tight places due to it's compact size, that's why I mentioned it. If you remember, the person who posted the question was looking for an alternative tool to a sawsall, that's why I said a Rotozip, they're very handy. I recently had to cut some pipe which was running through a maze of old pipe work like a birds nest. The sawzall would've been too big to get to where the cut was needed. The Rotozip fit the space and made the cut.
And as far as replacing metal pipe with plastic, I would still choose plastic where ever possible, it's cheaper, easier to work with, and will probably outlast the metal (we're talking drain pipes here). Besides, I've rarely seen "good" cast iron. Most of the remodels I do take place in older homes where the cast iron is in terrible shape. The job I was on recently involved replacing a section of cast iron that had cracked and was leaking. I should've took a picture of the section of pipe I cut. The sludge build up was amazing. The inside diameter of this pipe was down to about three quarters of an inch! That's terrible! I'm sure no one would be happy knowing that there drain pipes have that much build up with that little of usable I.D. Again, this was a very old house, so it wasn't much of a surprise. But given the choice, I'd use the plastic. As far as noise? I guess the plastic is noisier, I've never given that any thought, but I've never heard of anyone complaining about that either.
Yes, I do this for a living.
makita and milwaukee both make a metal saw. these look like a skill saw but use a spec. blade plus they catch most of the shavings. about 400.00 but when yourdone ebay it for 200,or just buy one on ebay. they are fast.... larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I agree with everything Mike H says, and add a note of caution.
If you do take out the CI, start at the top and work your way down. Rent a snap cutter, and only use a sledge-o-matic to reduce the larger pieces to managable sizes . CI is mega heavey and often unsuported in vertical runs. Cutting or knocking out a piece down low can mean a whole bunch of weight crashing down at you.
Wear safety glasses and heavey gloves.
I do enough poop work, both maintenace and repairs, that I also got the Hepatitis shot years ago. That is one risk I wanted to minimize.
Dave
One word "Matabo". It's a German made angle grinder and it's the best and only one you will ever buy. I've cut concrete thousands of times with them and locked the blade up in the concrete and the buildings circuit breaker will pop before the tool ever tries to quit or give up. You won't find these at the box stores, find a local dealer or Grainger industrial supply. Pay the extra bucks for "speed cut" brand metal cut off wheels they are at least twice as fast as regular blades and last much longer. You can get the "light weight" version of the matabo for about $100.00. If you get one and are not happy I'll buy the thing from you!
P.S.
I'd keep the cast too. There's a reason that's all that is installed in major commercial jobs, ie. hospitals, schools etc...
I've never had a problem cutting iron/steel pipe with a sawsall. Use good bi-metal blades like Starrett or Milwaukee and they'll cut fast and last pretty long. On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate to leave it in place if it's not in the way of anything or interfering with insulating or penetrating a roof. (I wouldn't leave an unused vent penetration, especially if you are re-doing the roof.)
If the cast iron is in decent shape, and doesn't need to be relocated due to a new floor plan, keep it. It's WAY quieter than new plastic.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
I'd leave the cast iron DWV, but be sure to take out ALL galvinized drain pipe, and redo any closet connections and drains to the cast iron. The galvinized pipe will rust out from the inside out, and the connections go bad, particularly toilet connections - the ones into the vertical DWV.
Quickest way to remove cast is a sledge hammer, some cast connections were in half inch increments. Make sure there are fittings that will adapt to it, if you keep it.
Check on scrap metal prices in your area. You might decide that demo and salvage can make a few bucks.
if the cast iron is in good shape, keep it, it's waaaay quieter than plastic and you don't want the new tenants/owners complaining everytime the person above flushes, or runs their shower....especially if the lines run through walls near living spaces....like dining rooms, living rooms, or kitchens....it can be VERY annoying, (don't ask me how I know)
Geoff
I'm surprised no one has mention pipe cutters for cutting the pipes. You know the ones with a cutting wheel and a couple of rollers. Look in the Ridgid catalogue.
Also consider the pipe wrench. They got those pipes in there so just reverse the process. Perhaps if the cutters can't get all the way around, cut as much as you can and then use a big wrench to twist or break it.
If the building has copper pipes, just leave it unlocked some night.
~Peter
He said it's iron pipe and cast iron and wants a faster way, that's why no one has mentioned that.
fastest method for any pipe other than glass, cast, or plastic is cutting it with a matabo.
cast--if it's old enough to be lead joints use a sledge hammer
newer cast - undo the bands
glass-undo the joints
plastic-sawzall - matabo will make to much smoke.
copper,galvanized, steel, iron, lead - cut it.
If your worried about health, don't cut lead or galvanized with a matabo, use a bandsaw, or sawzall. May still want to have a mask for cutting any metal with a cutoff wheel.
thats funny you mention health. when ever i cut cast with a cutoff wheel,i walk around wheezing and coughing for 4 hours.i really don't understand that as i have worked my whole life grinding metal,never a problem. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.