I am building a new home and have some concerns regarding the Framer and his work. He has just finished the first floor and I have some pix of what I think are problems. I would appreciate any comments you can offer. Also, if you think I have a problem, how should I approach the GC before the project continues. (We are looking at 2′ of snow so it doesn’t look like much will happen for the next couple days!)
Thanks
Replies
First order of business:
Downsize your pics so we can download them. you should be closer to 50k than 500k. Once that is done maybe we will be able to see what you are referring to.
unacceptable totally! Rik
I viewed your pics with no problem, very clear and crisp. Good shots.
The framing is not acceptable work and I would have everything corrected before any further work continues. Speak with the GC and voice your concerns. If you are not satisifed with the GC's response, then take those pics to your local building department and ask the inspectors opinion.
To AcornJim
Your concerns are genuine! I've got to say that you definitely need to address your contractor with these problems. Especially at the beam locations. All of that split out lumber isn't going to provide any strength and what is that mess at the glue lam at the corner? Do you require inspections in your area? does your area require your contractor to be licensed? and is he? I would not allow any more framing to continue until these problems are addressed and any rework should be done at his cost (labor and materials ) otherwise... I would not hesitate to tell him to hit the road.
You have come to the right place for advice....I cant wait to see what the others are going to say about this one.
J.O.A.T
Edited 2/17/2003 9:51:07 AM ET by jack of all trades
Acorn,
Framing is not trim work but it still needs to be done within acceptable standards. This guy does not care and may not even know how to do clean framing work. You concerns are valid and I would tell him to hit the road. If the GC refuses to deal with the problem then you should have grounds to break your contract.
MARK
Here are the pics with a smaller file size.
Another day, another tool.
r.b.- you got some obvious repairs . but also is that quad 2x12 solid(?), with that much wood there a lot of shrinkage and movement. and something tells me that polyurethane adhesive-i.e. pl premium- wasnt used which cut's down movement minimally but at least in unison with better fastning. but more importantly why not some flitch plates, i'm sure the architect specification were such(wood) . but the framer could of or should of pointed you in that direction(steel flitch). or maybe some lvl's.although a handling problem(steel) in inexperianced hands you be better off in the long run. now as the rant winds down i dont know the structure as a whole but that temp post tells there some beef on top. i'd also do some after hours recon with a level and a dryline , i've a hunch this maybe the beginning . and if it's nipped in the bud this wont telegraph through out the whole job......my 2¢... good luck.... bear
Edited 2/17/2003 11:44:01 AM ET by the bear
This is pretty sad workmanship. Give him a chance to make it right first. Then if he doesn't let him go. Tamara
looks sloppy , but your pics are so tight it's hard to get an impression of the overall job.... the things you zoomed in on are defects.. but i also saw lots of things that may indicate the overall job is acceptable..
is this a tract house.. or a custom one-off ?
very difficult to judge without walking thru the job..... yes , you have some defects... now.. what will the GC have to say ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm with Mike. There isn't anything there to be proud of, and most is easily fixable. The only thing that really bothers me is where that LVL sits on the splintered up top plates that don't co-join the wall corner together. That one needs attention before that beam was set. But a lot of the other is stuff you could find on any job at times. I hate it when a customer complains, "It doesn't look right" and the job is only half done. I know that I'm planning to make it all right..
Excellence is its own reward!
Yea, that beam looks frightening. First, because it is bearing on a future pile of sawdust, and secondly because the top plate of the wall is not continuous to the corner. If something were to cause that beam to want to move, the top of THAT wall would do nothing to restrain it. I believe you really ought to have a local building official look at the work and document his findings.
I'm with Mike too, but you want to look at those again?
We have loose, no support, plates don't lock?
The splits crack me up, but I wouldn't loose any sleep over them. Ok, I would.
Someone just asked how to build a house, show them a picture of this and say this isn't how, but they only focused on finish, this guy was just worried that his house wouldn't fall apart.
Oh, welcome back guy, not pickin on ya...
I can’t tell for sure but it looks like the person missed measured the wall by 4" and he put a post in the corner to make up for the wall being 4" to short. That is picture is where the lvl is siting on top of the splinter wood.
I think you need to get in there with a tape measure, dry string, water level and start checking to see if the basement walls are square, straight, plum, level before he gets to much farther along. You might also want to check if he water proofed the basement walls and put in drain tiles.
It's definitely shoddy work from what is displayed. I tend to agree with Mike Smith that it's correctable if those are the few trouble areas.
However, when I see top plates misaligned or split out from poor toe nailing, I like others would begin to wonder about a lot of other things, like plumb, level and square.
When too many "errors" like this occur, correcting them becomes more difficult and time consuming as the structure progresses, or they get forgotten or overlooked.
If some of the framing is out of whack, it can make the sheathing more laborious, or it will telegraph through the siding and/or drywall, it may become more difficult to close soffets cleanly, etc.
The comments on the LVL bearing are correct as that affects the structure.
If your GC is working for YOU, he should be more than happy to work up a good head of steam and set some standards (and a list of corrections) for the framing crew.
Jules Quaver for President 2004
Sorry but none of this would be happening on any of my frame jobs...whether we we're done or not.
Your pictures are of sloppy, put it together as fast as you can work.
And it's going to take them longer to fix it than it would have taken to do it right in the first place.
Unfortunately, is this a case of lowest bidder?
Or , You get what you pay for because that's the way they do it all the time.
Like the rest of the guys have said, it's all fixable .
But will they!
As a framing sub for the last 20 years I can tell you that that is unacceptable. I would be embarrassed to do that kind of work. My guess is that the G.C. took the lowball bid on the framing and the framer is in too much of a hurry to do clean work. I can tell you that I would be off a job with the G.C's I work for. Not only does it look bad it will carry through the whole job making everyones job that much more difficult, I would definately bring it up with the G.C. Good Luck
Taking just that one corner with the beam sitting on top of it...
That "top plate" is all split out like that, because it is only about 5 inches long.
The top plate of one of those two walls should have run all the way to the corner. The secondary top plate of the other wall should have run all the way to the corner. One all the way to the corner, and the other overlapping the first, all the way to the corner.
As it is now, you not only have nothing to keep that beam and "post" (made up of the 3- 2x4's, and the two bogus "top plates")... from simply falling over one direction or the other...
You also have two walls that may decide to sway in or out at will.
There is nothing but a few toenails and a lot of wishful thinking, holding that corner together.
Looks like they might possibly have thought there was to be a steel post or some other sort of support in that corner when they built the walls.
The best, and most secure fix would be to remove the beam. Then tear off the top plate on one wall, and both plates on the other. Then, leave in the 3-2x4's, and run new top plates. Overlapping and running all the way to the end, as it should have been done in the first place.
Quittin' Time
generally substandard work--if top plates have 3/8" gap then the corner will be out of plumb--unless the bottom is also equally sloppy--not a huge deal though. the toenailed stud appears to have have been removed and replaced,nothing unusual or wrong with that,just sloppily done---BUT the beam on the corner!!!! i simply would not pay for work like that--get him to fix what you can & then fire him
I agree with most of these posts but the easiest way to resolve your problems is:
1. print the last 19 replies and show them to your GC and see what he says.
2. OR, As Jon said, take the pics' to the building department, before the fix gets too costly to fix or before this guy runs out of nails.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Pretty sloppy framing as noted by the other posts. It all seems fixable now, but not so easy when the sheathing is on or the next floor is on....
A couple of the other posts alluded to the fact that this might be a low-ball bid. If that is the case, the GC or you (if you hired the framer) are a part of the problem. There is usually no way a framer can do it right for a fraction of the going rate. Either he'll have incompetent, underpaid labor and/or the crew will be in such a rush they won't care. I've had to follow this type of sub-standard framing while siding a house. We had to spend a couple extra days trying to fix things just to get the soffit and fascia to look normal...I'll never follow those jokers again...
My advice is similar to the advice already given. Talk the the GC and give the framers the opportunity to fix this stuff on their time. And next time budget a little more to get a framing crew who gives a darn. Might cost you a few more dollars a sq. foot but it will save you in the long run.
Thank you all for the responses. I have taken your advise and have printed all your notes and will meet with the GC in a couple days. (We have 24" of new snow so I don't think much will happen for a day or two) I sent the GC the pictures and he too is concerned. I had surveyed some of his other homes prior to signing and I felt that the work was exemplary. This is his first time building in CT and he has contracted local subs to do the homes. (The GC is building a home next to ours) This is his first time working with some of these subs and is obviously unfamiliar with their work. He has said that he will make it right.
Thank you all again.
Jim