I used to use cheap brushes and then throw them away, but when we were preparing the house for sale, I decided to get some good brushes (hoping–incorrectly–that they would be a tax deduction).
Ring’s End in Connecticut has an amazing selection of brushes, including Corona and Purdy. I bought two Coronas and could actually tell the difference between good brushes and cheap ones. There was no turning back.
Now we live in southern California and the only Corona available is the beer. Every hardware store carries Purdy, but the selection is very limited, and it’s unclear whether they include Purdy’s better brushes.
How do Purdy brushes compare with Corona?
When would I use a brush with white bristles, versus a black-bristled brush?
This is from www.paintstore.com/archives/300.htm
“Dyeing and bleaching: Some manufacturers insist on dyeing or bleaching China hog bristles. That makes them lifeless, brittle, and more likely to snap off and end up in the paint. Picking them out of a sticky finish slows you down, to say the least.
“The reason for color alteration can be frivolous, according to Bill Babkowski, technical service manager for Rubberset Co., the brush manufacturing division of the Sherwin-Williams Co. White china bristles are famous for their softness, but not all of these bristles are exactly white. Babkowski said some manufacturers bleach the darker ones to assure the customer that he’s getting the real McCoy — which he isn’t anymore, once they’re bleached.”
Is this an issue with better brushes?
Janet
Edited 9/12/2004 5:21 pm ET by jyang949
Replies
We use Sherwin Williams best brushes. Cost effective and we really like them. But..........I had a meeting with my area S&W rep and he said that with there brushes people loved them or hated them. So they bought Purdy. So I love them, if they are in your area you might too. PS. get a rental property and your brushes will be tax deductable. DanT
Corona brushes are not widely available in my part of the world, but I can say Purdy brushes are right at the top of the heap.
Generally, I think it is best to buy brushes in a paint store, where they will carry a manufacturer's full line. That will allow you to do price/quality comparisons.
Black china bristle brushes are mainly for alkyd paints, but they can also be used for oil based varnishes. However, for the latter, I much prefer white china bristles, because they are softer, and I think, do a better job of leveling the surface. For most painting, the black bristles are fine, but I do occasionally use a white bristle brush if the surface needs to be expecially smooth.
I never mix my brushes -- I keep a set for paint, and another for varnish.
For varnish, you can also use brushes that are made from Badger bristles or contain Ox hair, but after trying them, I don't really think they are worth the extra cost. Many would disagree with that judgment.
With brushes, you do get what you pay for with any of the china bristles.
Also, I use angled sash brushes for everything, since I think it is much easier to control the application of your material than it is with a conventional straight-cut brush.
And finally, if you are going to use expensive brushes, it will be well worth your time to clean them properly -- which will keep a brush going for years and years.
The website mentioned in my original post has some interesting facts on how good paintbrushes are made. It reminded me of something not at all relevant to home building: Shaving brushes. Back in the 1980s, the New York Times had an article on the renewed interest in shaving brushes.
By that time, aerosols shaving creams had been popular for decades and there weren't many shaving brushes available. A lot of the purchasers had never used one before and bought anything that was marked "Genuine bristle." But of course there are bristles, and then there are bristles. Bristles from Chinese hogs are good if you're painting the house, but not for whipping soap into a creamy foam. For that you want badger.
So the young shavers started looking for brushes marked "Pure badger". Better, but not good enough. The primo material for shaving brushes is "silvertip" badger. Each bristle in the brush should be nearly white at the tip, and dark brown down to the handle.
Then there is the characteristic shape of the brush, which is achieved by gathering a sheaf of bristles, silver tips all in the same direction, and spiraling it between the fingers into a perfectly tapered mound. Mastering the technique takes a lot of practice (you might have to be Scottish, too) so some manufacturers just trim the sheaf to shape.
But that cuts off a lot of the silver tips, which are as important to shavers as flagged tips are to painters. So, if your brush does not look like a snow-covered mound, it definitely was not rolled by hand in a small cottage in the Outer Hebrides. But then, it probably didn't set you back $150, either.
I used to paint Warhammer miniatures (fantasy based miniatures http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm ).
I had some paint brushes that basically had points made up from only about 3 bristles. These were size 000 brushes...tiny. I used them for painting iris's in eyeballs and teeth. My preferred brushes were made up from Sable hair. They were soft but could hold a point like you would not believe.
There are two main types of brushes: synthetic (nylon, polyester, or nylon/poly blends) and natural (black and white).
Synthetics can be used for any finish (stain, latex, oil, water). Natural should only be used for oil based finishes (stain or paint). The reason is that the water in the water based finishes are absorbed into the natural hair bristles and degrade them.
The black and white natural bristles are basically from two different types of hog's hair. I believe the black is the finer and softer one and therefore deliver a smoother finish. I can't really speak for its performance since I have only used the synthetic brushes.
Personally, I have 1", 2", and 2.5" Purdy brushes. I prefer the sash cut (angle cut) brushes. I just have more control with the sash cut. Purdy brushes are indeed high quality brushes. Unlike Wooster who has crappy low quality and high end pro quality brushes, I've never seen a low quality Purdy. There are also two variants their brushes, Dale and XL. It's tough to see. You'll have to look at the label on the back of packaging. Supposedly one is slighter denser than the other. I've used both before even realizing there were two variants. I didn't notice a difference.
I've used my brushes for latex paint, oil based primer, oil stain, and water based Minwax polyurethane. I've been able to achieve super smooth finishes with all. It's more a matter of patience, technique, and keeping the brushes clean and stored properly. I've had 2 of the brushes for 5 years and they are still super soft.
I think the Purdy brushes are more complicated than that; I have XL-Glides and XL-Blue Herons and they seem to have many more at the "pro" store (HD mainly carries XL-Glides in this area). The last time I went for a brush at HD, they didn't have the size I wanted and I was tempted to buy the same size in a Baker; the rep from Baker was in the store at the time and advised me not to, he said you shouldn't mix brands: pick the one you like, and stick to it..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Hmmm...strange. Why couldn't you mix brands of brushes? I would love to hear the reasoning behind that.
You're right about the different Purdy's. I get mine from Home Depot. The pro paint store in my area is only open when I'm at work so I can never get to them when they're open. The Sherwin Williams in my area carries the same Purdy's as HD.
To be honest, I'm just not at the level where the difference in one high end brush vs another high end brush is noticeable. The quality of my paint job is determined more by my level of patience and finish I'm applying.
They all apparently have slightly different characteristics and actions, not mention sometimes different handles: just like your hammer, you get used to the feel of yours..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I have to thoroughly disagree with the guy you quote (dissing the bleached bristles). I find the bleached bristles VASTLY more useful than the black bristles. They are far softer and finer which makes them better for every use that I would make of natural bristle brushes. I use black bristle brushes on very rare occaisions and for rough work only. Purdy's 2" angled trim brush with the mixed nylon-poly bristles is one of my favorite brushes and one of the most outstanding brush values in the world today. I dislike composite bristle brushes as a rule ... most do not flex and move together properly or they will fray and splay ... NOT THE PURDY.
Janet,
PURDY
Dez
I don't think she posted her picture, how do you know she is purdy? DanT
Dan,
I should be more careful. Must have been the beautiful handwriting that threw me.
Peace
janet,
I use both purdy and corona brushes, i love the corona brushes but they are hard to find. I only know of one place in san francisco that carries them, that is creative paint and hardware ( the benjamin - moore retailer ). now you know that they have them in california so keep an eye out.
james
you can never go wrong with a good brush... and even at $25 a good brush is cheaper than a $3 brush... i swear some of my old brushes have character i just know how to load em ... and what they will do...
i did run up on some "parker paint brushes" at a lost freight store... they are made in Tacoma WA 1-800-uspaint they are handmade and the finest brushes i've ever seen... i bought all they had (about a doz) gave a few to friends and kept the rest all were 3 1/2 100% dupont orel / tynex... i know all this becase i have one sitting on my desk to remind me to see if i can find a place for more online.... i'd never heard of em before... but i could sure sell em ...the ones i gave away they all want more...
pony
This morning started with me standing in line at the Department of Motor Vehicles. The man in front of me had just relocated from Connecticut to California, so naturally I exclaimed "Hey, I used to live in Connecticut, too!" "Where did you live?" "Have you ever been to...," etc.
Here's the kicker: This man was a sales rep for [drumroll]--Purdy! Well, you know what DMV is like: The line was long and he was essentially a captive audience. By the time we reached the front of the line, we had discussed VOC regulations, paints, long-oil primers, and, of course, paintbrushes. He was surprised when I mentioned flagged tips on bristles--guess it's not something that your average consumer knows about, but hey, I learn a lot of useful things by hanging around this website!
Janet
I've used Purdy and Ben Moore Brushes, Can't honestly say I can tell a difference when I use them, the Prudies seem to last a bit better though.
Either a synthetic brush for latex or a natural brush for oils.
the one brush I can strongly recommend is a Purdy Syntox (I might have that spelled wrong). I use them for water based clear coats, they lay down a real smooth finish, a bit more spendy then other synthetics though.
My favorite brushes have been Wooster. I've noticed that Lowes has been carrying them lately, but I don't know if they are the same quality as the ones I'd gotten from a paint store years ago.
To let you know how silly I am, I was actually fairly upset when my favorite 3" Wooster somehow missed getting cleaned. Sheeze, I had used that brush for over 15 years! Now its a solid lump. Tragic... I've still got it, anyone know if there is a way to return it to its former glory? I had purchased a few new ones that were supposed to be the same quality, but I'm not fully convinced that they are. That brush had silky bristles and not only covered really well, but put a really smooth coat on.
But I agree with your assessment that good brushes are worth the $$. I only use cheap brushes when the application will be too difficult to clean off the brush (at which point the cheap brush becomes a disposable brush).
jt8
john,
you could use "brush cleaner" it is a solvent cocktail sold by many paint stores, that and a wire brush may bring it back to life.
james
james and Phill, Thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a try!
Speaking of brush cleaning... I always cringe when I see my sister's brush hygene. Typically when I'm taking a break, I will go ahead and clean my brush and set it out. Instead of cleaning, she just sticks hers in a plastic bag. And I'm not talking about 20 minute breaks, I'm talking about days or weeks she will leave the brush with paint on it in the plastic bag. By the time she gets back to it, it is just a thick mass of partially dried sludge. Take a power tool to clean it!
Just works so much better when you clean them and set them out to dry (and then return to their case if applicable).
jt8
john,
if you have access to a parts washer they are also good for cleaning up brushes, start with the brush cleaner solvent to get the brick soft, comb it out and finish up with overnight in the parts washer. sometimes when i am painting at home i skip the washing and send it straight to the parts washer.... let it soak for a min and them put it uner the sprayer for a bit, take a wire brush to it and your done, works wonders for getting out oil based primer and paint.
james
LePage make an excellent brush cleaner, particularly if that's latex paint: just soak the brush for 4-6 hours (bristles only), then run a bruch comb through it, rinse it out with water, and repeat. Oil paint may need a 24 soak - too bad they don't still make dic aty do any more..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Around here the choices are Purdy, Wooster and shermin willy's best.
And I think SW's best might be made by one of the other two.
I'm no Painter but I do know to use the best brushes and keep em clean!
get a wire brush, a brush comb and a spinner, and keep your brushes in the package when you aint usin them.Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
According to my manager at the local SW, they make their own brushes. They apparently bought a company to do this.
How do you actually keep a brush clean. Seems like no matter what i do the top part becomes hard. Do you ever leave them soaking in solvent (or water)? I just can't seem to keep a brush in top notch shape.
Yes, paint slowly works it way up the bristles and tends to harden by the ferrule. I mostly avoid this by placing my brushes in a plastic bag whenever I won't be using them for even a few minutes. I usually wait till I get home to wash my brushes because I can take my time and use the appropriate cleaners (for latex paint: soap and water, followed by denatured alchohol, followed by plain water). If I've only been using the brush for a short while and the customer has a utility sink (and does not have a septic system), I'll clean my brushes right away.
I treat cleaning my brushes almost as a ritual. Not so much to avoid the cost of buying new brushes (though, there is that), but mostly because I get used to certain brushes and want them to be in the same condition for the next use.
By the way, nylon/polyester brushes can take quite some abuse during cleaning without any apparent harm. I wash them in a plastic bucket (less abrasive than most utility sinks) and really mash them pretty hard to remove absolutely as much paint as possible.
-Don
Buy a brush/roller cover spinner. Before you paint load your brush with the appropriate solvent to soak the bristles near the ferrule. Spin brush and begin painting.
This pre-loading will prevent capillary action from placing paint where it can't be cleaned.
Jon Blakemore
Before you paint, soak the brush in the appropriate solvent for your coating. gently shake out the solvent. ENough solvent will stay at the ferule to help avoid the coating from wicking up to the ferule.
Clean your brushes once you get your paint or coating where its noticable near the ferule. This does two things, makes brushes easier to clean, and it removes the excess paint in your brush.
thanks much and assume i'm using latex paints for this discussion
1) just yesterday i dipped my brush in water prior to painting and "slung" it dry; however when i painted i had a heck of a time because watered down paint tended to flow out the backside of the brush -- i.e. didn't seem like i got enough water out even though i slung it quite a bit. So does a spinner (never seen one) help eliminate this?
2) is using denatured alcohol after soap/water a typical kind of thing. I'd be glad to try it.
3) lastly, are really good brushes easier to clean than really cheap brushes? I've got both -- a couple Purdy brushes and some '5 brushes for $4' types.
Working on the same principle as the predampening of brushes, the same treatment for paint roller covers is useful strategy. I only rarely clean and reuse roller covers but I still like to predampen them because I get a better paint flow and they stay fluffier and carry more paint per loading which speeds and smooths my process. Don't try to squeeze out the last bit in the roller either ... when you run low on paint reload ... smashing the roller to get a little more out ruins it's capacity for paint and slows the whole job.
Buy a spinner. They are about $10 and you will wish you had one sooner.
Jon Blakemore
I agree with Jon and will elaborate a bit
A spinner works by plunging the handle up and down, causing the end (into which you pressed the handle of your paintbrush) to very rapidly spin back and forth. It doesn't seem like this would provide enough centrifical force to truly 'fling' out of the brush the solvent/water used to clean it...but it does!
I've got a line of purdy nylon's and bristle's, I've had for 10 - 15 years, and I've used 10's of times each. Bristles are still good as new.
Oh, and do the spinning in a cardboard box...as the plunging will fling solvent/thinner/water everywhere!!!
BruceM
Or you can buy a 5-gal pail with lid from the box store for a couple of bucks and cut a 6" hole in the lid to lower the bush/spinner into the pail..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
OK...you guys talked me into it. i'm looking forward to it. It always really bugged me to move toward buying cheap brushes because i haven't been able to keep nice ones in good shape.
To catch drips from the brush spinner I use a brown paper grocery bag inside of a plastic grocery bag. It's free and everybody has them in the house.
By the way, the clamp on the spinner is so strong, it's hard for me to push the brush handle through it. New method: I use a lever to hold the clamp open while inserting the brush. The lever in this case is a hammer with a claw that is wider than the clamp (lightweight hammers are not wide enough).
Slide the claw into the space below the clamp, then push down on the handle of the hammer so the claw rotates and forces the jaws of the clamp apart.
Janet
Soak the brush in lacquer thinner for a few days, combing it out with a stiff wire brush and changing the thinner often.
Once the worst of the crud is off, soak the brush in Polyclens for 24 hours, then clean as if it just came out of the paint can: comb/brush it, go through several changes of Polyclens, spin it dry between each fresh batch of cleaning fluid, and finally form and wrap it with newsprint and hang it to dry.
If you're lucky and persistant, that will recuperate the brush as well as anything I know about....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?