There is an ongoing thread on this forum from a gent who is looking to start a part time handyman business. When I was reading through the posts, I was surprised to see that many of the other responses were (in some ways) trying to dissuade him from being a part time carpenter because people won’t want to give up “their time” to have a carpenter work on their house.
What do people feel about this? A carpenter won’t be successful if he works on nights and weekends? I’m not convinced….
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Replies
they absolutely will. if people think otherwise they are in serious denial. i have known several peopl who performed their share of "side work" that included lengthy and intrusive work...all performed from 5pm to 9pm monday thru thursday & 8am to 4pm saturday. it happens everyday all over the country.
you can debate the legitimacy of their business but you cannot deny that the work is there during those times for people who want to take it.
Thanks guys - Glad to hear some positive affirmation for the "small" guys like me. To take Boss Hog's example, replacing a door is a nice half day project that helps me stay ahead of the bills, but I don't have to take on the full headache of relying on the cash for food and housing. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
FWIW...I too think there's plenty of room in the marketplace for part timers. Obviously there are all kinds of limitations, and I suspect if you charge less to ease the pain of the work schedule, there is no shortage of appropriate work. A lot of the "go to work for yourself" gurus I've read even advocate this as a relatively safe way to ease into a new career...
(BTW Justin, nice job on the battery article)
Being a part-time carpenter certainly limits the projects you can tackle.
Like I would never try to do a kitchen remodel on a house that someone was living in. Same with bathrooms. I was once asked to re-roof a house evenings and weekends. No way would I try that.
But things like adding a closet, building a garage or shed, vinyl siding, or building a deck are doable if the HOs aren't in a huge rush. A lot depends on what they're willing to put up with.
I think part-time guys and "handymen" fill a niche market. Call a large builder about something like replacing one door and you'll get a whole bunch of un-returned phone calls. Someone like me can easily handle small stuff like that.
Justin, I find that people are more than willing to put up with work being done while they are home. In fact I use that as a marketing tool-a homeowner won't have to take a day out of work to have a closet door fixed or something like that.
I did a bathroom remodel for some friends of mine, and yes it took forever because I could only do it here and there. I also did some hardwood stairs and new railings and flooring for a neighbor. They were far too big for me to do efficiently because I could only do it on my time, but they were understanding. I won't do that again though.
I do it for the same reason you do it, and it doesn't seem to bother anyone that I am around on their off-time. Once they get to know me they leave me alone in the house while they go and do their errands or whatnot. And it's like Boss said-a full-time contractor won't bother to go replace a couple of rotting trim boards, but for me, that's perfect.
Think of all the overhead, administrative and unbillable time that goes into running a business, even part time. I'm self employed as a handyman (and remodeler), and I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 of my work time goes towards running the business - scheduling, book keeping, cleaning/fixing/organizing tools and materials... (Yes, I work more than 40 a week). To do it part time legally (insured, paying taxes...) would be pretty tough. There is a demand for someone who can go through a punch list or do 1 or 2 small things. There are also a whole lot of people out there doing it illegally, at least here in MD. The've driven down the price for those who are legitimate. Fortuantely, most of the hacks work for real estate investors looking to flip properties. I probably charge twice what they do, but it is the only way I can live in this area, stay in business and support my family.
Not only will I do a number of side projects in the evening, but as long as the home owner doesn't mind, I'll work till well into the evening on a normal job if I'm feeling like it. I've worked for a couple people that I don't think would have minded if I stayed all night. They seemed a lot more interested in getting the job done sooner, which I'm usually all for myself. Last year I did a job that the homeowner seemed a little dissapointed if I was packing up at five.
Peace,
Casey
"What do people feel about this? A carpenter won't be successful if he works on nights and weekends? I'm not convinced...."
Geography/demographics probably play a role, too. In my neck of the woods the HO tends to get squirrelly if you're there past 4:30 (unless it's an emergency call). Nights? They roll-up the sidewalks at 7pm, unless I'm in and out in an hour for a simple fix they don't want me there during dinner.
I do a fair amount of Saturday (and the occasional Sunday job) for 2nd home owners. I'm in a vacation area so to meet with the HO and then do a job that's going to require them to bless the finished product - so I can get paid quickly - it all happens on the weekends.
-Norm
while I was growing up ...
my Dad had two FT jobs.
he worked FT on the railroad from 6am to 3pm ...
then ... ran a FT remodeling company. His customers knew he worked evenings and weekends. He did 99% interior work ... mainly kitchens and baths.
for a while ... he had a contract to remodel laundromats too.
His clients also knew his crew was mostly himself ... with help from his kids. We all were put to work at an early age. We worked afterschool and weekends as well.
Sometimes ... he'd drop me and my older brother off to start a job while he went and wrapped up the last one. A 12year old helper and a 17 year old running the job ...
He only worked local ... and had a great reputation. He turned down work all the time. If the railroad benefits weren't so good ... he easily could have made the switch to a more normal schedule and been busy till retirement.
If he could make that work ... I'm sure a PT remodeler could make it work too.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'm just curious, and you don't have to answer... but I've never heard you mention a brother before. You said he used to work on your father's sites too..... is he still in the trades? Or are you the 'last man standing'? Just curious to see if it was/is in his blood too?View Image
My older brother Greg is living in Cali.
We're as close as U can get, with that many miles in between.
He's a phone tech for a phone company. He manages the phone systems of a small office complex. Does installs and updates, then maintenence.
He also just got his Cali GC license ... forget which one ... but it's "the big one" ... covers him to do pretty much any and everything out there. He's always done side work ... but at his last job ... layoff's were looming ... and about 2 yrs ago he started planning ahead.
Things went as he forsaw ... he was the very last guy laid off ... as he followed Dad's advice ... take any/every job training and certificate U can get ... be impossible to replace .... he was ... up till the very end.
Laid off ... thot he'd jump into being a big time Cali GC ... then got hired on by a competitor ... promotion and a raise!
More driving now ... not just one complex to babysit ... but says it's a nice change of pace. Plus ... he's taking on projects he can sub out.
Buck Const is a registered Cali business ... we're nationwide!
aside from all that ... he was a great older brother growing up. Beat the snot outta me daily ... and I hated him daily ... but he was tough as nails and hard as stone.
Crazy sob too ... great roll model!
smaller then me ... an inch shorter and 30-40 lbs thinner ... but small, wirey and well known as one of the toughest kids in town. That crazy part helped.
When I got into my late teens he morphed into the best father I'd ever seen in action. I pattern pretty much all my kid-raising techniques after him. Our Dad was great too ... a bit old shcool and alot tough ... Greg took that and softened it ... a bit.
He'd kill/die for his kids ... but not spoil them one bit. They're his whole, complete and entire life ... and I can see the logic in that. Hard to explain unless U see it in action.
Anytime there's the "who's yer hero" Q ... he's my stock answer.
Dad's next ... just because Greg took what Dad made up ... and made it better.
he can be a bit of a smart a$$ though ... not sure where that came from?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Sounds a lot like my older brother.... whom I still idolize. Same deal.... he beat the crap out of me daily... but he was the only one allowed to do so. I hated him.... he tormented me. Now I can say, without a doubt, he is my best friend. And if I'm ever a Dad.... I wanna be the kind of Dad he is. My heros? It's my brother and my grandfather.
Sorry for the sidetrack.... but I was curious. Having an older brother is a good way to grow up.View Image
"but he was the only one allowed to do so."
to this day ... I still remember ...
I was 7 yrs old. Mom made Greg take me with him and Jerry from across the street birtbike riding. I wanted to learn ... he didn't want me anywhere near him ... he was 12 ... and she said "we paid for the bike so U take him and teach him" ...
I was allowed to follow a block behind!
got to the slag dump (there's where Pgh kids growing up along the river and steel mills rode ... heaping pile of slag ... black/gray soot ... where we all rode .. illegally ... U had to fold open the cut chainlink fence to gain access to the trails!)
So ... we're in the field .. after they all had their share of real riding ... little flat grassy section ... and I'm on the bike .. trying to learn.
I drop it more than once ... Jerry says something ... I mouth off back ... and he punches me hard in the chest and knocks me off the bike.
Greg runs up and blasts him in the face. Just drops him.
"hey, don't hit my little brother ..."
I get up smiling ... Greg see's that ... BAM!
Blasts me in the face ... "stop pissing off my friends..."
Jerry had a bloody nose ... I had a split lip ... my the pecking order was held.
I had to tell Mom I fell off the bike when she asked why my mouth was bleeding.
That pretty much sums up my whole childhood. Protected to no end ... no one messed with Greg Buck's little brother ... but I got a regular beating at home. We shared a bedroom ... sometimes I really hated going to bed at nite!
I remember the time I got punched in the face for getting punched in the face!
kid across the street punched me ... I ran home crying ... we were maybe 6 or 7 years old. I'm in my room ... Greg comes home ... "what happened?"
I tell him ... JP hit me ... I ran home.
"U didn't hit him back?" nope ... just ran.
He blasted me ... and said don't come back home till U hit him back!
I had to go over ... knock on the door ... and ask for him. Told his cousin I couldn't go home till I punched him back ... He said OK and got him.
Hi JP ... BLAM!
punched him in the mouth and went home ...
next day we were back to being best friends ... turns out ... his older brother found out he'd never punched anyone yet ... so I was the most convient target!
No wonder I understand world conflict so well ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Guys are weird.Rebeccah
and older brothers are even weird'er ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
dang but that strikes me as so funny. ROAR!
be but ain't this a great place
Beware. RFID is coming.
Justin
While I worked in a cabinet shop both here and in Iowa I was always taking on side jobs. Guess what, I had to do them evenings and weekends.
Obviously some jobs aren't practice to do evenings and weekends but I was never at a lose for side jobs!
Hell we all know electricians, plumbers, painters and yea, even carpenters that do side jobs!
I read that thread and wondered where all the people were that always encourage people that want to move from an office job to a carp job to take on side/small jobs, when do they think they are going to do those side/small jobs!
Doug
Edited 6/15/2006 8:20 pm ET by DougU
Many, in fact, probably most of my customers have school-age children. I don't think it's coincidence, all of my work is through referrals and people give my name to their friends and neighbors who are in a similar stage of life. My work and my customer's life just seems easier if I'm not there during "family time".
I've gotten in the habit of starting work at 8:30 because that's right after the kids have been sent off to school. In the evening, I start feeling like I should leave when they start fixing dinner. Many have told me to work as long as I like and some have even invited me to dinner. Sometimes I have to work a little late just to stay on schedule, but I've never accepted dinner.
I'm not really sure if my customers prefer that I don't work into the evening. I just feel better if I don't and I SUSPECT they prefer it.
-Don
What about your own family time? My wife put a stop to me working late and weekends after about a year of feeling like a single parent. I justified it because the business was new and it needed more care and feeding. You can only burn the candle at both ends for so long. I have more recently come to terms with the concept of my time being the most valuable thing. Planning to move the family to less busy area and slow down the pace. Might even go fishing for the first time in about 5 years...
there's time between jobs ...
and like I said growing up ... the family was there!
Plus ... that extra income paid for many the traditional family vacation ...
and way more weekend trips than any of my friends took.
we were the richest "lower middle class" people in town.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
a part time carpenter can definately be successful,I work a full 40 hrs during the week and supplement my income after hours,a bachelor could live very comfortably on my side money.
To get the most out of working part time it might be worth while to work into a niche that will allow a bit of specialization. On of the big downfalls of working part time, especially on a multitude of different projects, is that there either isn't enough time spent learning the task or you'll just get over the hump and it's on to the next hump.
By eliminating half of the jobs from consideration, you'll find that on the jobs that you do take that you're as up to speed as someone doing it all full time.
One of the best tile layers and rock fireplace guys in our region made his reputation working nights and weekends. He probably made as much from tile as he did during the week. He went on to be selected for an ultra fancy tile job with a budget near $1/4M.
I've found that many people want their work done during evenings and weekends. It's usually a confidence issue that goes away after I've done some work for them and they realize that I'm not going to make off with the family treasures if they aren't watching - lol.
A couple of customers have even insisted that I keep a housekey but I won't because I don't want the responsibility of "permanent" custody.
My only question is, how would you notice? Around here, so many of the residental teardown/rebuild or major reno/addition jobs in my neighbourhood are so intermittently staffed by the various trades that you'd have no idea whether they were being on a full-time or part time basis- and they've recently instituted a Sunday noise control bylaw to keep the Sunday work on residential construction in check! People are busy, and they work when they can.
In a busy labour market, skilled people could probably get plenty of evening and weekend or other part-time work merely by committing to the client, in writing, to stay on the job (part time) until it was DONE, rather than running off to three or four or TEN other sites before the job was done! Work might dry up again once the building boom inevitably dies back down, but there might be a fair bit of money to be made in the meantime.
In 20 years of carpentry I have never had a customer that seemed to have a problem with me working on a weekend or other time when they were home. Sure there are times around holidays or special occasions when they dont want anyone there but otherwise they dont seem to mind. A lot of them seem to like to be there, especially older people. I would prefer that they arent there but they never seem to mind.
Better someone else than me . I dont like um around.
Tim