Nothing ground-breaking here, just playing around with my wife’s video camera – pocket screw joinery on some craftsman style casing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ylIx-2d0Qc
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Replies
Videos pretty good. Is that the K4 kreg jig system? Is that the only/best way to go? Ive been wanting to get that for a long time but it seems like theres always something else to spend 120 bucks on.
I asked my boss to get one for a high end house we built last year. The style of casing they wanted was flat 1x4 stock butted together with overhangs on the top similar to what your doing but no angle. I thought it would produce suprior results and maybe even speed it up a little.
He refused saying that was a waste of time just put it up like normal. Some of the windows there were triple double hungs with sepreate smaller ones above. Those took a long time to do that way.
BUT now we are back doing some more work in some rooms that didnt get finished at the time, looking over what we did last year I became sick! the joints opened up and some of the side peices have rolled away and not flush with the top or bottom now, seem like a lot of movement. Dosent seem to bother the owner but I am truly sicked by it, its terrible. Im hoping I can afford one before its time to trim out these new rooms because I am determined to not let it happen again.
BTW the style your using there what do you call that offically? Also what is your overhang and whats the angle. Thats my favorite look and will use it on my own home, just want the answers so I dont have to experiment to get the look right. Butted stock with an overhang has always been my favorite look. Nice job as always.
-DAN
i don't think theres anything in the way of a tool that will change the quality of your work more than a kreg jig. by the time you have shot a dozen screws you will kick your self that you didn't buy one the first time you saw it. if you can't spring the 120 you might try there little jig,drill bit, and clamp. probably spend 50.00,but the bigger one is worth the difference if case santas good to ya.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
The only really annoying thing about the pocket screw thing is why it took so long to get one!!
I've been using a kit for about 5 years give or take and used 10,000 screws up, working on my next box of 5,000. Just be careful on the depth setting for drilling. The screws with the washer style heads work best for me.
Last box of screws came from sears, coastal tool has great prices too.
Kreg drill bits work the best too, I have tried a couple of others but the pilot broke off soon. Sears has a very basic jig for $40ish, I keep one in the toolbox. Works good.
Is that the K4 kreg jig system?
Funny thing, I got mine at a yardsale. My wife goes yardsale-ing on Saturdays (she's an antique dealer), calls me and I go Hoo boy, what do I have to go pick up now? She says come out here - there's a contractor having a yardsale, you might want to check this out. Man did I get some deals - bessey clamps, belt sanders, nail guns - I was in Huck heaven!
Anyway, its a good setup, well worth the cost, even at new prices. I mainly use just what you saw there - the drill guide, the drill, and the square-tip driver."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
BTW the style your using there what do you call that offically? Also what is your overhang and whats the angle.
Don't know the official name - I'm just duplicating the detail that was on the original house. 10 degrees, 3/4" overhang each side."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
curious on your clamp. i have always used the kreg clamp,i like your wood clamp as it will clamp the whole joint. do you use the wood clamp only or do you also us the kreg. on them big boards i think it's easier with the jig screwed down so i'm not fighting the the board flopping around.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
do you use the wood clamp only or do you also us the kreg.
I try to avoid the little Kreg clamp - works better for me just to clamp the whole thing down, as shown."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Not bad.The only real suggestion is that you boost the audio level.Now if you really want to do a training video then you would want to stop it at a couple of points and show close of the pocket and what the screws look like and how they come out at an angle.But that takes a lot more work. But just to take the extra shoots, but they you need to go back and edit it to put it in the right places and not showing you walking and and forth to the camera..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Yeah, I gotta figure this thing out. Do I need a special program to edit? Any recommendations?"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
a Macbook pro and Imovie (comes in the operating system. If you wonder what you did before Kreg tools, you'll REALLY wonder why you didn't get a Mac!!!
Yes, you need a special program. But I have never done it so I have the slightest idea of what to suggest..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Final Cut Express ($199) will probably get you there.http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/If not, Final Cut Studio will, but that's going to cost you a couple of track saws. ($1299)http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/overview.htmlBy the way, been enjoying the videos. And I'll pass along a tip from my old acting professor, keep your hands at your side and not in your pockets. It seems odd, but you'll look much more natural.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
View Image
And a speaking or esp. singing tip. Always annunciate the last consonant with clarity..like "Don't" has a HARD "T" sound. and "Sound" would almost sound like "sound-a".
It helps it from sounding like the words trail off into a fade.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I think that all Huck needs to do for annunciation is to listen to some evangelical dudes on Sunday morning. Now THOSE guys know how to put the words across!
LOL..Not Quite that Emphatic..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
praise the lord and pass the hammer drill! =)"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I think that all Huck needs to do for annunciation is to listen to some evangelical dudes on Sunday morning.
I think you have been listening to them dudes too much. Enunciation is careful pronunciation, whereas annunciation is when Gabriel tells Mary she's gonna have a verrrry special baby."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
LOL, well, blame Sphere.He was the progenitor of "annunciating" the immaculate consonant.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
View Image
It's interesting to me how many people use the
stationary (meant to be mounted to the table) version.
I have the whole kit, and primarily use the other
set up. Where you leave the board down and clamp the jig to it. What's the advantage of standing a six foot board up?
Not sure of the question here, got any photos of the "other setup"? This is the set I have. That's an 8' casing btw!
View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
You have a different set then I do. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=11410&TabSelect=Videos I wasn't able to imbed a photo so here is a link. If you have broad band, the video shows the portable base in action.
Strangely for one operation they screw it to the table, not
very portable like that. If not, you can see it in the main photo on the left. You clamp
it on to the piece rather then inserting the piece into the table
mounted jig as you did.
My co-workers use the bench mount base as you do. I assumed it
was just habit, due to the older models not having the other option.
Edited 12/27/2008 9:24 am ET by Henley
No argument - more of a pain in the situation with the long boards using the large clamp. I prefer one of the other clamps for that situation. I do like the large clamp for long edge joints like in the picture. I've mounted mine on a piece of plywood ~1'x2' that I can clamp to a workbench (or not) - a nice compromise.
View Image
Edited 12/28/2008 1:58 am by wrudiger
That's a hefty drill for pocket screws :)
My other drill is too slow - Kreg recommends 2 or 3 thousand RPM for drilling the holes. It is kinda bulky, but I don't do it enough to justify buying another drill...
Makita screw gun is plenty fast enough in my experience. It isn't as impressive thou. :)
Yeah, I flipped a coin on that one.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Sounded like the mike was right there at the driver drill with the racket it made.<G>
Showing a small mockup of the parts involved, how they fit together and how the screw goes in can be done with no editing.
Start the recording handling a cut-a-way of the project with a short 1-2-3 narrative right in front of the camera ( a close-up), stop the camera and set it up for the long shot and then continue with the production, just as shown.
Tips, such as why pocket hole joinery is a good thing, why he prefers not using the Kreg clamp, the proper depth of the pocket and the length of the screw in relation to the thickness of the wood, can be covered during the close-up.
Later he can dub in the background music.
we are doing... 80-100 sides right now... 40-50 doors both sides... modified craftsman style... and i love the pocket screws... not use'n em everywhere but alot... what i do like is for the header to be 1/8 proud of the legs... shadow effect... and as much as it hurts me we are ripping my 10yo stash of 1x12 x8 pine for this trim (buy'n trim would hurt more) we are painting it all so we have very little waste... but to get that 1/8" i cheat... i have pallets of wood blind material (don't ask) :)... 1/8 x2" 10ft long... thousands of em... so i build out the back of the header with them... i then cap the top of the header with a 3/4 x 1 for added detail... this is 1/2 of a bottom rail for wood blinds has a nice bead on both edges... looks nice and again i have 1000s of ft of the material... so i like use'n it up... adding detail with very little labor and zero material cost...
thanks for the YOUTUBE clip... i refer to them often
p
Got a picture? Sounds interesting.
Danno7
Your boss won't spring for a Kreg system! look for a new boss.
I bought one years ago and did mount the jig to a piece of MDF very handy.
It is so slick you can make things so fast and strong it hurts.
I use the small single jig on the jobsite and it is great.
A couple years ago my neighbors friend (hottie) asked if I could built a small tv stand. I said sure and in 2 hours I handed her a completed stand and told her to just let it dry for a day and paint. I got a big hug and a big bottle of vodka showed up later.
A nay sayer said that the endgrain to long grain joints wouldn't hold up. I made a test piece from 3/4 x 2 maple and made a simple "t". and with the glue still wet I gave it to him and said have at er. Well he pulled and tugged and wacked it on my bench and it didn't move. After an hour I took the screws out and said now do it again! he beat on it again and finally put it in a vise and wacked it with a hammer and the joint failed. I said the clamping pressure even with endgrain makes a strong joint. He is now a believer.
You can make a project with the pocket screws with no glue, disassemble take to jobsite and re assemble with glue no clamps and clamp marks.
Take my clamps but leave the KREG!!
Read the latest issue of FWW ?
Pocket screws rated 13 out of the 18 joinery techniques they tested.
For most of the things I would use pocket hole joinery for I think 698 ponds of breaking force would be plenty.
OK, OK, stop already! I'm so jealous, I'm about to choke on my biscuit! Seriously, I've wanted one of these for awhile.
Got shots of that finished casing?
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
Got shots of that finished casing?View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Does that style of trim take a 6" or so slightly rounded edge baseboard?
Will you run the finished floor up to the casing, or up under the casing?
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
Does that style of trim take a 6" or so slightly rounded edge baseboard?
I would say so, but in this case, I'm matching what's there. Which is a 2 1/2" (or so) oak-over standard profile. I'm not crazy about the detailing on the original house, but I have to stick pretty closely to it.
View ImageI'm cheating a little on the window trim, because I really, really don't like the way the original builder handled it. What he did is take the angled top casing, and duplicate it (reverse) on the bottom. It looks ugly to me, so I'm using a sill and skirt, and hoping no one confronts me on making an unauthorized change.
Will you run the finished floor up to the casing, or up under the casing?
The finished floor is commercial grade glue-down carpet (this is a room for a handicapped person in a wheelchair). I held the casing up about 3/16" off the floor, the installers will probably tuck the carpet under at least a little.
I haven't spoken with the (likely) floorcovering installer yet, as it is a friend of the owner's, and he has steadfastly avoided meeting with me, although the owner says he's been to the job at least 10 times since we started. Not sure what that's all about. "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I haven't spoken with the (likely) floorcovering installer yet, as it is a friend of the owner's, and he has steadfastly avoided meeting with me, although the owner says he's been to the job at least 10 times since we started. Not sure what that's all about.
Maybe he also does remodeling and wanted more than just the carpet install. No telling. jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
I like that fan:
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I have a similar one in my current project:
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It turned out to be a minor PITA for the electrician. I had requested all the ceiling fans to be on two switches (one for light, one for fan), but this one had a remote which apparently adds a layer of complexity. It started off in the LR, but the manner in which the remote operates did not lend itself to 3-way switching (2 3-way switches), so they moved it into the MBR. Whereupon it still wasn't able to go on two switches, but oh well, can't have everything.
I still like it. going to be a pita to change a bulb in it though :)
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
Nice video.
One sort of general question/topic for discussion....
what's the point of wood glue when you're doing pocket hole joinery?
Isn't the mechanical bond so much stronger than the glue one that the glue one is irrelevant?
In other words... does the glue add nothing?
what's the point of wood glue when you're doing pocket hole joinery?
probably a habit left over from my furniture building class. I did mention that it was not really necessary, and probably overkill (but couldn't hurt), or words to that effect, but depending on the quality of your player, you may have missed it."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Very nice videos. I appreciate the easy going, comfortable style and the obvious attention to detail of your work.
I have used the same Kreg set-up as you for some time and love it! I usually only use the Kreg clamp or another larger one with a greater reach with the jig with the two holes. I have yet to get comfortable with the bench jig like you are using. I do plan to try soon, though. I like how the clamp works on that.
We have a portable PC benchtop pocket hole cutter that works extremely well without dealing with the drill and bit for multiple holes, like an entire house of Craftsman style casing.
My co-workers were amazed at how much I use pocket holes when installing cabinets in our houses. Like many others, I prefer taking extra time to hide a screw if possible in lieu of having to fill a couple nail holes and hope they disappear.
Keep the vids comin!Neither cold, nor darkness will deter good people from hastening to the dreadful place to quench the flame. They do it not for the sake of reward or fame; but they have a reward in themselves, and they love one another.
-Benjamin Franklin
For those who need to have more than a left over door on horses...<G>
Kreg has a steel legged table with melamine top and a number of captive clamps to hold the work while using the small jig instead of the table top model. The flat table holds the face of the work perfectly flush. Eliminates the balancing act sometimes required to get things lined up.
Hey! Are you dissing my workbench?
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/videos/index.aspx?id=60240&c=2
BTW, I saw that Kreg bench advertised - do you have one, and is it worth the purchase price? Can you post some pics of it in use?"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Diss your workbench?? Mine looks similar.
I've been using the work alone techniques for years and have Carrolls book in my library, too.
I don't think I would buy the work stand because I have enough work support tools and because the table can be purchased separately. I would adapt the worktable so that the table height matches my other surfaces and I would gain a more versatile worktable compatible with my other stuff.
The scrooge in me would even look for aluminum extrusions to extend the capabilities of the original Kreg table, if I determined the size of the project would benefit. But, how many joints can you fasten at one time?
Your parallel clamp method beats the heck out of the supplied clamp in the Kreg kit. I don't know why I couldn't come up with that on my own.
Watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrJXjpidqfw
the glue adds quite a bit. I'm quite sure that the combination pocket hole/glue is as indestructable as they come. The glue alone is quite an impressive joint.
The funny thing is, I was gonna biscuit joint each one, because in the original house some of the trim is twisting out, and the joints look bad, after only a few years. Bought a biscuit joiner just for that purpose. Then at the last minute, I'm like Duh - pocket screws! Haven't even opened my new biscuit jointer yet!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
While I'm not a pro, but I'm not your average DIYer either. I owner-built my reproduction Saltbox colonial, and I was the sub for all the interior finishes... well, "most" as by the time I was done hanging doors, putting down vermont slate tile in mudroom and bathrooms, doing all base/window/door trim, prime/paint it all (including walls) - while working 50 hours/week and commuting 30 mins each way to job site (oh, and my wife was pregnant with our first too...) I was exhausted and hired out a bit (a really talented guy put down the 12-20" wide EWP flooring that was glued, stapled and then face nailed with cut nails, sand/tung oil... and I did have someone put in the tread/risers and the angle portion of the rail/ballusters - but I put in the second floor railing and I also finished it all..... with shellac! I know that would make a few on here happy).
I did flat stock trim for the doors + windows in that house... 4" 3/4 on jambs (and stool), 5" 5/4 on the headers. I bought a PC biscuit jointer and biscuited all the jamb/header joints. Four years later they are all tight... but as you mention in the video, if you are not pre assembling the casing, the biscuit joint really doesn't help with the alignment issues at the joint you can get with out of whack drywall/framing/windows.
I know this after plenty swearing and "doctoring" of windows (read, plane down jambs with hand plane and/or smashing in of proud drywall) to get a nice looking joint. or.... as time wore on... a "nice-ish" looking joint. Lots o' windows in that puppy.
I wonder if I had pre assembled the casings if they would have looked better... and it would have been faster.
oh well.
I now have the clamp on model that others are referring to. it's a little hinky to use and I think I'm going to buy the clamping base like you have (you can get that separate to upgrade my kit)... only downside is I have limited ceiling height near my work bench so for longer pieces I'll have to find some space to use it (or go back to the clamp on method).
For what it's worth... I will probably use glue for most of my pocket joinery... especially if painted b/c glue clean up is less critical vs. stain grade wood.. cheap and easy insurance for a stronger joint I guess...
Edited 12/27/2008 1:41 pm ET by GraniteStater
Edited 12/27/2008 1:43 pm ET by GraniteStater
I've been lurking on this thread for awhile and everything is truly inspiring.
One thing I've wondered is how you adjust the reveal when pre assembling like that.Do you tack up and test fit everything first and then use tick marks like with biscuits?
One thing I've wondered is how you adjust the reveal when pre assembling like that
just measure carefully - there's really no adjusting, once it's built. What you add to one side comes off the other! It hasn't been a problem, so far."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I guess I was wondering what if the frame is slightly out of square,or if it was mitered flat stock.
There is a tiny fudge factor, but not much. I guess if anything was noticeably out of square, you'd have to cut your trim accordingly. Not sure if that answers your question, but as I say, it hasn't been a problem."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
thanks, my internet access is intermittent