Has anyone used a pre fab shower pan that you can apply tile to ? Any suggestions as to brands to use ? Comments about installs?
Thanks,
Jeremy
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Tigermoth,
Yes, we ordered two from Hollywood Florida - (location seemed to stick) and installed them successfully with much adaptation a few years ago.
They were a fairly thin plastic form (kind of an "invention" I think).
They were about 80$ each. They had some starfoam in the front step.
You were supposed to imbed them in "bull", which was described as a roofing product that "sets up" (a product we could never find or figure out).
We installed them by first removing the starfoam and imbedding them in sacrete sand mix. Since this wouldn't fill the "step ledge", we drilled 4 - 1 1/2 holes in this and funneled in thin concrete. When this shrunk back we topped it off with "funneled in" epoxy.
You have to watch the amount of epoxy - it will over heat.
Over this form we applied mosaic tile, using "epoxy thinset". The job was sound and successful - but a lot of trouble. It made a nice job.
Fz
wow ... sounds like a mud bed would be way more straight forward.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
JeffBuck,Right Jeff - but the sale's pitch made it sound like "the ticket". We sort of reached a point (like half way through a tooth I had filled without novicane) where we wished we hadn't but too late to stop.We weren't willing to depend on starfoam under thin plastic with mosaic overlay. You can't help think - with it being obvious they can make any shape they want out of plastic - that a good tile base could easily be provided. I have seen the failures with wood involved in the pan. There are also problems with forming your own concrete pan. The concrete gets pretty thin in spots. There is also the issue of sealing around the drain. I haven't seen any better way than the way we did it under the circumstances. I would still go looking for a "tile over" pan.
I'm glad to get your take.
I've never worked with one ... have been asked about them ...
but any time the pan was anywhere near "standard" sizes ... the decision has always been made to go with a swan-type premade pan ...
most of the mud bed pans ... I'd guess 90% ... that I've done ... have been odd size or shape. Just the nature of my business ... most of my tile work comes from subing for high end design-build firms or high end K & B shops ... so "non-standard" ... is the norm for them. Odd shapes and sizes ... only way to go is the old custom fit mud bed.
Now I know ... unless something better comes out ... to just stick to what I already know.
waterproffing around a preformed with tile-over always seemed to be a concern.
I appreciate your input.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff,Would you describe what you do & have learned - the fine points - of the mud pans you do? I work in some high end houses too. I was "in on" some of those pans back in the '60's, I mean I was "around" where they were done, but I doubt if we were applying the fine points. I worked with a farmer and a old carpenter that didn't read FHB (ha). Are you using a special concrete mix? Reinforcement? I know there are articles on these but I'd rather hear from a tradesman. Fz
What about the Schluter Shower system? Anybody used it or have comments?
http://www.schluter.com/english/articles/showersystem.htm
I'll be starting one on my own project with a week or so ...
and will probably be helping a buddy at his job in the same time frame.
I'll wait and try to take pics along the way ...
next coupla weekends ... I'll type something up and add pics.
probably wait till for mine ... nice and big.
lotsa open space ... plenty of light.
his is an old closet type shower ... kinda depressing. Mine is new const ... his is a tear out and redo the same footprint.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I did a styrofoam one last year on the insistence of the HO (they'd already bought the damned thing).
I tore it out and did a mudbed.....the foam preslope would have probably worked OK, but it seemed kind of punky and I had to install the membrane and the tile mudbed anyway so it seemed pointless.
We like laying a mud bed, but for ease of installation and speed we use the Schluter shower system with the Kerdi fabric. Say what you want about the Europeans, but they bring the most innovative products to the construction market. It always seems to take a decade for anything over there to make it over here. We have installed a dozen of these systems in the past and have had no problems as of yet.
We have used it under everything from large format tiles to mosaics. The drain system is fool proof and has an excellent finished look. We actually don't use any product if it is not top notch in quality.
sully
Sully13,I really glad to hear about that - I recorded that information. I went to their website. One of the problems they mention about the "bed" type is the fact that the membrane is below the mud bed, allowing the mud bed to become saturated, deteriorate, develop fungi, etc. That makes the pre-formed base look pretty good.Fz
I like the Schluter idea. I've used some of their stuff installing tile backsplashes, and it was a slick way to go.
I've got a little 50 year old ranch we bought where I have to redo the bathrooms. Do you just bed the KERDI fabric in Thinset? Also, is the fabric truly waterproof, so that you could put it over standard drywall instead of having to demo the existing and install greenboard (for whatever that's worth)? If so, this could be right handy for adding a tile surround to an existing tub.
I also have to either recondition or tear out and replace a 34x34 fiberglass shower stall. Since the batroom door is a 2-0, I can either repaint the shower with epoxy paint, cut it out in pieces and replace it with a sectional unit, or cut it out and do a tile shower. I can handle the tile work in a shower, but really don't want to "practice" doing mud beds in this house.
Since the drywall and framing is very sound in this house, based on your experience, does the Schluter system sound like a good direction on this project?
Thanx-
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Edited 2/26/2006 4:13 pm by Bruce
Bruce
The Kerdi fabric is made of 3 mil plastic sandwiched between orange felt. It is absolutely water proof. If I recall correctly, the installation vid shows the guy water proofing a shower stall which just has drywall on the walls, no cement board. I would not recommend having any drywall near the shower area. We always use 1/2" Hardibacker as a substrate.
We always use white full flex mortar to embed the fabric. We use a kevlar re-inforced white thin set for setting the tiles on the walls and floor. I find that it is the best way to go. I don't mind spending a bit extra for a job I know will last for decades.
Given your situation with the house being solid - I assume that means there are no cracks and no excess bounce in the floor - I would highly recommend using the Schluter system. You should be able to find a tile supplier who can sell you the pan and curb, drain assembly, and the fabric. Everything comes in a kit though you may need to purchase additional fabric depending on the size of the shower. I believe the base is 4' x 4', and you can cut it to size.
sully
Thanx for the info. Spent the last hour reading thru the info at the Schluter site, and thanks to high speed cable, I'm 189 megs into the download of the installation video. Gonna talk to my Schluter supplier tomorrow.Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
However, you're saying 3 mil thickness, and their web site says 8 mil. I think I'm gonna go with their numbers.Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
I think it is 8 mil overall thickness with the fleece on both sides.
sully
I love this website! I have been dreading making the custom bed for my shower in a few months, and have never heard of this Schluter product. I just happened to see the thread as I was scanning through.Thanks to those who are willing to spend their time answering all these questions! I learn more every time I log on.-Rich
Whooeee! $385 for the shower kit! That's the price right from the Schluter catalog. Lotta $$, but looks like a timesaver. What's the saying about time is $$?
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Edited 3/4/2006 12:42 am by Bruce