Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 04:37am | #1

   *
   Ed...do you see as I often seem to see, that sub problems and contractor problems are often just maoney problems in that not enough is being paid for the work that is the problem?

   Added work for no added pay...changed start dates with one hour notice...hiring a sub at basic rates and asking for premium...and on and on...

   near the stream not seeing sub problems when one is using the same subs faithfully, and paying them for their extras incurred,

   aj

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 05:04am | #2

   *Right on, Jack! Too, that thread about "Gifts after completion" got me thinking. I've been thinking that a great gift to the owner after the job would be realized by giving a bit more to the subs during the job.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 05:23am | #3

   *AJ, I have to admit that I'm not an active player in construction like many of the rest of you. I worked for a commercial gc in Dallas years ago, I have done some remodeling in a former life, and I do a lot of woodworking, and if I do say so myself I'm a pretty handy guy around the house. My posts on this site are based on my exoperiences as the owners rep where I deal directly with architects and contractors on many projects. I find it amusing that there are so many problems with contractors and owners getting along. When we do a project, either a renovation or new construction, we get firm bids based on (usually) complete drawings, and we agree on a price. Once the contract is started, I work with the contractor to be sure there are no questions as to what we want, and if there are any changes, we do it in writing, they quote a cost for the change, and we keep going. I don't try to get them to extra work for free, but I do insist that they build what we agreed to. We always end the project on good terms, and we do business with th same 3 gc's year after year. They know we pay on time, we don't jack them around with bs, and it's a professional relationship. Sure, things go wrong on projects, but we work together to get it corrected and finish the job. Mistakes happen, so let's learn from it and don't spend a lot of time pointing fingers. The short of it is, I respect and trust them, and they do the same. Sure wish others would try that.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 05:26am | #4

   *Ed...sounds like we agree....near the stream,aj

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 06:48pm | #5

   *you hit the nail right on thehead Aj.Probably, many of the sub problems are started by the subs, who don't know how to price their services, then feel cheated when they find out they arent making any money. I've lived that life myself. Builders would be wise to look past the lowest bidders, especially if the subs will be having contact with the homeowners.blue

2. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 07:07pm | #6

   *Blue, I think YOU have hit the nail right on the head. I believe that this is the most common cause of homeowner-contractor problems. First off, you get a homeowner that doesn't know much about building but wants a fancy showplace at the cheapest possible price. Secondly, you get a contractor that will cater to these people by hiring the cheapest guy he can find to do the job. This usually means hiring some hack that worked for somebody else for a month and thinks he knows it all. He has little experience, a few tools, no dependable help to work with and soon gets in over his head and either walks off the job or starts hacking away trying not to lose his butt. Very rarely have I seen problems with good GC's who hire good subs and bid what it takes to do the job right. Unfortunately, price is getting to be the number one consideration of most new homebuyers and many of them are going to be in for a lot of headaches down the road.

3. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 08:43pm | #7

   *might be having a problem with a sub tomorrow. He used drywall mud to smooth out and fill in a floor before laying vinyl tomorrow. After posting the question here and the help/advice I got I guess there is some work to do tomorrow for him.Usually I do not have problems with subs. I have been using the same subs for years and they know that so they usually do real good work, on time and proffesswional around the homeowners. The vinyl problem I will have tomorrow will be a guy that has done floors beofre but is new for floor laying for me. the guy we used finally retired after 35 years doing floors as a one man show.

4. 
   Guest_ | Oct 01, 2000 10:19pm | #8

   *Josh,Pour a little water on the floor to show him what would happen if down the road the customer has spill or a leak. Explain to him that the floor will delaminate and HE will be the one to come to fix the problem at HIS expense. If he can't do the math, do it for him this one time. Fix it now, easily, or fix it later. the hard way. It would be really awful if the customers floor was $35. a yard vinyl, plus the adhesive, plus the baseboard or shoe. Plus the lost time from another job. Plus the lost referrals. Plus whatever else you can think of.

5. 
   Guest_ | Oct 02, 2000 01:49am | #9

   *All my customers are told before a contract is signed that changes cost. Since I do all my jobs on a cost plus basis (giving a written estimate at the time of signing), they know that they will be paying for the extra time and material needed to make those changes. The biggest problem I have with some customers is that when I'm not on the job they will try to have a sub do a little extra. I tell all my subs that if they do those changes without a signed change order from me, don't bother to pass the extra cost on to me. I also tell them to have the customer talk to me if they have problems with workmanship, workers, materials, etc. When they stop a sub or one of my people to engage in a lenghty conversation or as to why something is being done a certain way, the meter is still running on the final bill. Most customers understand and come to me with their questions and very rarely do I get any complaints about workmanship, etc., since normally I'm the first one to catch the problem and have it corrected.Vince