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Joe F probably is the guy who would know the most about this. but I think you mean the Fibonacci series “golden section” found many places in nature. I think the ratio is 1:1.61803
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Joe F probably is the guy who would know the most about this. but I think you mean the Fibonacci series "golden section" found many places in nature. I think the ratio is 1:1.61803
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Not quite what you asked for, but a bunch of related information at this thread which might be of interest.
If the link is screwed up, would someone do it right for me?! I can't do these things at all. Sometimes they work, but more often they don't. It's "Beginner Needs Advice for Computing Drawer Front Dimensions by Derek McDonald" in the main forum at Knots, some way down now. You could of course highlight the gobbledygook below, copy it and paste into the address above, and that would probably work.
http://webx.taunton.com/WebX?128@@.ee90920
*Blue,I think the ratio you are talking about is 3:2.Try a book which I think is called" The old way of seeing". Something like that( I am sure somebody out there knows the author and the real exact title)The book talks about the importance of shadow lines,proportion,scale of moldings etc.I think this is the book that discussed the proportions used on greek temples etc. If I think of the correct title or stumble across the reference for the ratio I will re-post.Good Luck,Stephen
*Here follow this link, the discussion is priceless on this. Read the whole thread on proportions. This was better than a whole semester of design class and a great refresher for all.thread. Beginner Needs Advice For Computing Drawer Front Dimensions - wonderful discussion on proportions and methods - some graphical and some hint at the basis for them."b Well worth a bookmark !
*anderson... thanks for the link.. i bookmarked that .. especially for the Golden Mean..none of my references get down to rules of proportion... too bad.. it would save me a lot of ugly...now i got some good rules..see if i can apply them..
*The Fibonacci numbers is a sequence that begins with two 1's and each succeeding number is the sum of the previous two. So it begins: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, etc.Rich Beckman
*Rich,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
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Blue,
If you like design, and your a hands on type, you'll really enjoy two books by David Pye. The Nature and Aesthetics of Design, and The Nature and Art of Workmanship. He does thouroughly explore the formation of ideas and the meaning of "workmanship". I got mine from Linden Publishing. You might find them elsewhere.
Michael Leistiko
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Could someone tell me what these ratios and proportions are relating to on the bay window; the size of what?
I am architecturally interested.
Thanks,
Red dog
*Joe,Of course. Begin with zero and one. Then one plus zero is 1, etc. 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, etc. I foolishly pulled down my dictionary to verify my thought and Merriam Webster says start with 1, 1. And I followed it down the primrose path....Rich Beckman
*mike, i'm not big on books, but i like to read. Maybe I'll mosey on over to the library though.Usually, I just keep tweaking until it looks right.blue
*Its a ratio that relates everything to everything Red Dog. For instance, if the main window is short and wide, and you put a tall high steep roof, it would look absurd. Bigger is not always better.Sorry for being so vague, but i really don't know what I'm talking about, i just kinda feel it when it's right.blue
*Red Dog...the proportions and the ratios are relating the different portions of the structure to each other..the size of the bay window to the gable end..the size of the rafters to the size of the bay..the amount of the overhang to the overall size of the bay.. and the elements of the cornice.. the frieze board..the size of the roof shingles....the size of the windows...some things LOOK rigtht.. some things don't ..all of these ratios and proportions were discovered by the ancients.. in egypt , in south america,, in china, arabia, greece , and romeand it has been passed down to us as builders and architects to build beautiful things instead of ugly things..these proportions and rules are simply tools that help us to do this...i wish i were a better practitioner of the art...one example is the proportions of the traditional panels on a 6-panel door...
*Mike, no one passed it down to me, but i think I got it.In fact, I don't remember having any conversations with any mummies or anyone about this subject!blue
*Try this too: "Of perfect proportions, famous Italians and sunflower seeds" 6/20/99 2:55pmJerry
*blue.....sur someone passed it down to u..every time u drive down a street and stop to admire an architectural detail..it's the same as opening a book...some of our books are written in stone, mortar, brick, and wood... and some on a printin press...kind a like the supremes.. wen they were discussin obscenity...((((((i don't know how to define it, but i no it wen i see it)))))))Pogo
*Listen MIke. I drive down some of the most obscene looking places in america. Lapeer county (a rurul coutnty that I live in) has the butt ugliest structures on earth!Still somehow, I know they are ugly, and I don't build like them.blue
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What Blue-eyes was asking about way back up there is called the Golden Ratio, I think. It's what you get when you divide a dimension into two parts such that the ratio of the whole to the larger part is the same as the ratio of the larger part to the smaller. It does work out somewhere near 3:2 and something is telling me it was first defined by Leonardo. I just tried to do the algebra to figure it out and I can't. Jeez, it's only been 25 years or so.
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Yeah Ron, 3:2 sounds right. I'm going to go measure my panel doors or something.
blue
*Some others have already mentioned it, as I know it the ratio is 1:1.62, which is fairly close to your 1:1.5, or 2:3.
*Great books (I'm still working on the first, but 'Workmanship' is on my list ). His take on 'form follows function' is pretty thought provoking.
*I know it as 5:8; again, pretty close (this was one of the big secrets of the masonic guilds). A lot of those proportioning systems do come down from the Greeks; part of the old trade training process was learning the proportions of the five orders (Ionian, Doric, Corinthian, etc.). You learned the proportions of the classical columns, and then applied them to proportioning buildings and furniture. For example, in the Ionic order, given a total column height , you would know that the pedestal would be 1/5 of the total height, the entablature would be 1/6 of the remainder, the shaft of the column would be 9 times the module (max. shaft diameter) , and the base and capital (attached to each end of the column shaft) are each 1/2 module.The module was divided into sixty 'minutes' and all the mouldings scaled based on that. You could (and did) lay out all the interior trim of a room following those guidelines (not hard and fast rules), and it applied also to furniture. There are two excellent articles on classical proportioning in Fine Woodworking On " Making Period Furniture", one by Mack Headley, and one by Timothy Philbrick (that was my source for the example above).Anyway, 5:8 I can keep in my head.
*I wonder if we find these proportions pleasing because it's something we're born with or just because it's what we're used to seeing.When I was younger, I figured that the seven whole notes of an octave were based on some perfect formula from nature that was the right way for music to sound. Then I found out that many asian cultures have the octaves divided into five whole notes. Guess it's not innate.
*Ryan,You're on the right track. There is a lot of info on the web on the Golden Mean or Ratio. A lot of it describes how often these same ratios are found in nature. The different parts of our bodies, or animal's bodies, the branches of trees, the segments of seahsells, etc., find their proportions related to the Golden Mean. Since we see this so often in nature (maybe without realizing it), when we build something using the same proportions, it looks 'right'.Jerry
*Does anyone know why a mile and a kilometer are proportionate ?kilometers X 0.621 = MilesMiles X 1.6093 = Kilometers
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I was commenting on the bay question, and remembered a formula, maybe developed by the ancient romans, that governs aeshtetics. I think it is 3:1 or 3:2 ratio. I can't remember the actual number but know it when I see it.
Can any archetectual types comment on this?
If you don't understand what I mean, try building a small doghouse, and putting a 12" soffit on it (no, I didn't do that-I only put a 8" overhang on it!) It still was awful, and couldn't get it out of my yard fast enough. Since my dog never went into it, I was happy to give it to my neighbor, across the street. Bad move. He put it in his backyard, directly in my view from my porch. Every time I sat on my porch, I had to stare at my abortion!
blue