Railing post to porch attach method?
e2canoe
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Hey guys. I need to attach 6x PT posts to my porch framing. Had planned on lag bolting to rim joist but just measured it and have a question.
The posts are for guardrails. They will be 3′ tall. I planned on cutting a rabbet at the base and lagbolting but now realize that the rabbet would only leave 1.5″ of material left (not enought I figure).
I’m thinking a Strong-Tie but am not sure which one to use in this situation.
Edited 10/30/2004 10:05 am ET by e2canoe
Replies
Here is a (crude) drawing of the situation.
In some cases it is possible to mortice the beam and stub tenon the post. I'd investigate that.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Yes, I thought of that and then had visions of the building inspector coming by and saying "Nope. You have comprimised your beam by removing x inches from the top span. You'll have to replace the beam".
There was another post with the idea of a 'pin' combined with lag bolting the post which will work for me. I'm sure it will be strong enough.
E
Typically what we would do is:
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Cool. Thanks. I wouldn't have thought of making that 'pin' in the underside of the post. That will do the trick.
E
It's a handy trick you can apply in a number of situations. We refer to it as the "setting a mailbox post hole" techniques since a guy doing for us years ago said it was like putting in the post for his mailbox only with epoxy and the description stuck. The one thing you want to be carefull about is making sure the pins don't force all the epoxy out of the hole as you are dropping the post down in place.
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Except for a little less work, it's the same concept as using the double threaded newel lag and wrenching down that nut through the hole in the side.
Yup, sure is and I first started using it setting newels long before I started using it on decks and elsewhere.
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Jerrald ... I can't see your graphic. Can you re-post it differently, or do I need to change a setting on my pc?
edit: never mind. It showed up after I posted this message.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Edited 10/31/2004 9:47 am ET by Ed Hilton
Have you used this method to go to concrete slab? Will one lag hold a 4x4 fir post?
Vince - Have you used this method to go to concrete slab?
Yes, all the time in fact although sometime we do a variation of the techniques using hydraulic cement rather than epoxy.
Will one lag hold a 4x4 fir post?
Maybe maybe not. It all depends on how big (tall the) 4x4 is because as it gets taller it has more leverage over the connection so it would require more depth on the pin which brings up the issue of just how thick is the slab too.
I think you have to think about the actual engineering of the connection individually for each particular situational use and application. If you using a 10' tall 8x8 you would use a piece of pipe instead of just a lag bolt and you'd be setting it in a fairly deep hole and be filling it with concrete. It all depends...
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Jerrald, This will be a porch railing 36" The slab is 5" thick. I have used hydraulic cement but I keep hearing about all the great stuff about epoxy. which one would make a better connection?
Vince, I think if you can work to achieve something like what I've sketched in the GIF below I think you'll be okay. Two things come to mind; enlarge the bottom of the hole as best you can so the epoxy lock-keys the bolt in the hole and the rougher without being broken up the sides of the holes are the better the epoxy will grab.
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We generally use West Systems Epoxy and would add something like micro glass beadsor some other filler to the mix as a kind mini aggreate but there are epoxies you can buy in prepeared syringes which are great for injecting into the holes that are suitable for this kind of application. I'm pretty sure Simpson makes them for securing foundation anchor bolts in concrete walls but I'm sure there are other manufacturers out there too.
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Jerrald, THANKS! This was good timing I will be working on this today
Isn't that how it always works out. I always seem to get the information I need right when I need it. It's there in front of me on a magazine rack or posted in a forum somewhere. It's sure wierd how that sometimes works.
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I have used all-thread right through the middle of the post. works great. Never have to worry about stripping the wood.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
I dont get it ,why do need to make such a deep rabbet on a 6 x 6 ?
that will be fun.
Actually it is more like a lap joint with out the other half of the lap being cut to an equal depth, so it is a rabbet.
Dave
TECONAIL - "I dont get it ,why do need to make such a deep rabbet on a 6 x 6 ?"
Well you don't necessarily need such a deep rabbet. It's really a design appearance issue and it all depends on where you want the centerline of the railing to fall in relationship to the end of the decking. With the deep rabbet the railing looks like it is "sitting on the deck" where with a shallow rabbet or even no rabbet at all it appears as though the railing is "hanging of the rim of the deck". Personally I just generally prefer the look of railings that look like they are "sitting on the deck" but it all a matter subjective taste and really depends on the style of deck you are going after. I was just guessing that e2canoe had made a choice that that's where he wants his railing to run and was looking for a way to pull it off given the conditions that choice dictated that the posts would fall on a triple beam.
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