I’ve started a thread about this a while ago, but the time has come to actually do the job, and I want to check in again so I don’t screw it up.
I laminated a counter for my basement kitchen, and it delaminated almost entirely. I’ve peeled off the old laminate, and now:
– Is the old contact cement going to be a problem? It has kind of a coarse texture to it. I’ve contemplated trying to knock it down with a heat gun, or maybe wiping the whole thing with lacquer thinner.
– Is it worthwhile to start over with new substrate? The counter is more complex than a simple L, but I could probably just trace it using a router with a flush trim bit. To me, that seems safe, but I’m not one for wasted effort and overkill.*
– I didn’t use a J-roller the first time. Do you figure that’d work well enough, or do you use a different method? I successfully laminated a table, once, by walking on it and smoothing it out with my feet. That’s kinda dorky.
Thanks in advance, guys.
*It’s worth mentioning that I bought particleboard from a countertop shop, so it’s the same stuff as is used commercially.
Edited 9/23/2007 11:17 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Replies
Maybe I'm not remembering correctly but arnt you the one that stuck the lam before the two pieces were dry? Or did you just apply the contact cement to one side? Cant recall for sure, maybe not you so excuse me if not.
I'd probably try to get the old cement off the substrate, lac thinner will do but if you saturate the substrate then you'll have to let the lac thinner evaporate completly before applying the new.
Roll the contact cement on both pieces(the lam and the substrate) evenly. Let the two tack up then stick your pieces, that simple.
Doug
Yeah, I only applied contact cement to one side. It's so embarrassing that I can hardly bring myself to admit it.The old laminate tore as I removed it (with an iron), even though I tried to save it. So I'm ordering a new sheet. No problems with trying to align it.The coarse texture seems to be from me heating the old contact cement and pulling up the old laminate. The cement became soft and stringy, and formed strands as it was stretched. That's why I think I probably only need to flatten it out a little, then re-coat with new cement.
Edited 9/24/2007 8:21 am ET by Biff_Loman
Best method may be to heat gun and scrape with a 6" blade scraper and possibly attach a new top peice of 1/2" particle board - glue and nail and trim flush and than start over with the laminate.JT
It's so embarrassing that I can hardly bring myself to admit it.
Hey....I recently admitted to having been a STYX fan in my youth. You got nothing to be ashamed of my friend.
Which cement did you use on the first go round....neo-prene or water based?
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
The old laminate tore as I removed it (with an iron),
Hopefully you wont have to do that again but if for some reason you do next time squirt some lac thinner underneath the lam as you pull up, it'll weaken the glue and you can lift it off.
I've done this several times and it only takes a little patience and it will come off.
Don't worry about being embarrassed for doing something dumb, everybody on here has, weather they'll admit it or not!
Doug
Edited 9/24/2007 10:01 pm ET by DougU
On a job (buncha houses) I was working on lately, laminate guy came in to redo a couple of tops that had been damaged by other trades (!!!!). To remove the plam, he used a machete."Don't worry about being embarrassed for doing something dumb, everybody on here has, weather they'll admit it or not."Doug- So how many pocket doors have you nailed open?
Edited 9/25/2007 1:29 am by kenhill3
Doug- So how many pocket doors have you nailed open?
ONE, that I can recall!
Funny you should bring that up, I'm doing a house right now that has two pocket doors, one adjacent to the other and the whole time all I can think is "dont nail the damn thing open" I went so far as to take a black marker and write on the sheetrock "use short nails"
BTW, thats not the dumbest thing I have ever done!
Doug
Edited 9/25/2007 6:58 am ET by DougU
LOLTime for a new thread!
I went so far as to take a black marker and write on the sheetrock "use short nails"
I wonder how many coats of paint that marker will bleed thru :)
james
No, no, Doug's a smart guy, he's only nailed ONE pocket door open and wrote the marker under where the base goes!
and wrote the marker under where the base goes!
Thank you, and yes, thats exactly where I wrote it, because if I had the base on I wouldnt need to write it!
Doug
My laminate came in yesterday, so today I took the plunge and gave it a second try. Everything seems to have worked out.I splashed lacquer thinner over the old contact cement, and then scraped it off as best I could. I had no idea the old contact cement would turn back into goop with the thinner. I had beveled the edge previously, so I increased the bevel slightly to trim the laminate nice and flush. I wouldn't say the result is professional, but a little filing and sanding made for a good enough DIY effort. I don't have a second set of hands right now, so my countertop is marooned in the backyard at the moment. :-|
Edited 9/29/2007 2:37 pm ET by Biff_Loman
If I remember correctly, you only glued the counter and not the laminate?
Repositioning the old formica might be a problem if it was trimmed to an edge.
Re-coating the particle board should reactivate the existing glue.
Gord
After reading the other replies I am not sure just what happened to the previous laminate top.
I will say that yes you need to use a "J" roller or some similar method of applying pressure to the laminate after you place it.
Rolling it ensures all the air bubbles air out, ensures uniform contact between the laminate and substrata.
Borrow you rolling pin from the kitchen if nothing else is available. Using a block of wood and a rubber or "dead hit" hammer to tap on the block works too.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
It has kind of a coarse texture to it
Depends on why it is coarse. Is it from dirt & dust that has gotten under the laminate and stuck to the glue? Was it applied coarse? I would not try to sand it smooth. The heat from the friction will cause it to get real gummey and booger up the sandpaper quickly.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
As long as the cement is totally dry, use coarse sandpaper and a piece of wood to knock the bumps down and make it smooth. You don't need totally smooth but you do want it flat. Any major dips will need filling in. Be careful to not sand all of it off- some has soaked in and getting all of it will mean that you're breaking the smooth particle board surface. Vacuum the dust off and check it for flatness. Glossy surfaces will show dips more than a matt or figured laminate. You'll need to make sure the back of the laminate is smooth and sanding works for this, too. Just go slow and be careful.
Roll a healthy layer of cement on the particle board, let it set up and if needed, repeat. Roll a coat on the laminate and when they have just about lost their tackiness, lay the strips of whatever you want to keep the two from coming into contact so you can position it. I prefer plastic (HDPE or some other type that won't be affected by the solvent in the cement) but some use cardboard or wood. I just don't want to deal with anything that could cause a bump under the surface. If you already trimmed it, you're going to have one chance to position it correctly. If you haven't trimmed it, you don't have to be quite as careful. Use a J roller and press hard.
If the laminate failed to stick, or came apart later ... there's no short fix. Heck, even when the problem area is just a tiny place in a corner, it's almost impossible to get a good fix.
In short, you need to start over. The easiest way, by far, is to just get new underlayment ant start from scratch.
The lamination failed for one of three reasons:
a) Dirt / dust;
b) glue applied wrong; and,
c) moisture.
If moisture got in - say, around the sink - the substrate is no longer as firm, or as flat, as the rest of the counter. Glue will no longer hold well.
If you applied the glue wrong, or assembled the parts too soon ... well, your best results will come from removing the old glue (rather than just applying more). That's not easy to do. You also greatly increase the dirt / dust issue.
Dirt, or dust, can cause you troubles no matter where it is - be it under the glue, in the glue, or stuck to the glue. No matter the case, it's a sure way to keep the two faces from making the contact needed for the glue to set.
You don't absolutely need a special roller to press the laminate to the base material. True, a proper roller does make things easier, Truth be known, you can do a perfectly good job with a stack of bricks. The key is to make sure that there are no bubbles under the laminate.
Bubbles are made either by air, or by solvent. If you put the pieces together before the glue is dry, then the solvent will make bubbles. If you are not systematic in placing the laminate, you can trap air between the layers.
I guess we'll just have to see.