Not sure if I need to ask this here or in Knots or somewhere else.
My parents need help with an oak floor in their living room. The house is 40 years old and it is the original oak strip flooring with v-grooves between the strips and walnut ‘pegs’ for decoration. There has been a rug on the floor in the same place for the past 40 years and they have recently removed the rug and repainted the room. The floor is obviously two different shades. Under the rug it’s a light tan, original flooring color. Everywhere else it’s much darker, from a combination of dirt, age and sunlight. They do not want to hire a professional refinisher, due to the cost. I told them they probably have two options – hire the pro and have the floors completely sanded, toned and refinished, or buy the same size rug and forget the floor. They have already tried various solvents, bleaches and stains with limited to no success.
Might there be any other solutions (such as oxalic acid and a good scrubbing) or do they need to hire the pro? After doing my own floors, there is no way I’ll ever do THAT again.
Replies
There are no products that I'm aware of, that will remove the patina from the finished wood that got the sunlight and traffic.
And darkening the lighter areas is not a viable option either. It would take a pro with TONS of experience, and it would never look truly good.
Either plan on staining the whole floor a lot darker or figure out a way to live with it..
Just for information there is a simple easy Do-It-Yourself way to refinish wood floors..
Do tell Mr. Frenchy, I'm listening.
Are you sure?
I mean I've typed this information up several times, (in fact it seems to be a STANDING JOKE AMONG SEVERAL HERE)
I don't mind really and I'm glad to help. But I hate to have to go through all that work for someones laugh. (I really should figure out how to cut and paste)
No need to re-type or even copy and paste. Just post a link.
Like this: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=119162.12
No actually I'm curious,
My situation is there are oak floors under all of the carpet.
But.....the one smallest bedroom that was not carpeted has oak floors but they look like shid..all dinged up and rough, looks like it needs a good sanding.
I know the carpeting needs to come up BUT the previous owner had a bassett hound that musta pizzed in every corner of the house. That dog smell is mostly gone.
I'm afraid of what I'm going to find when I take the carpeting up.
If it's too bad I eally don't want to recarpet so I'll probably have to put down some of that prefinised oak.
I guess if I chopped down oak in fornt yard, I'd have some raw material.
My other question is....why did people do this, cover up with carpet. Too much hassle to keep looking nice? Carpet salesmen?
Rafael
I hope you read what was posted above.. Shellac is really a great floor finish. I can't begin to tell you how happy I am with mine.. Couple of points I missed in the above post, Yes you can clean your paint brush with either denatured alcohol or ammonia but I don't bother.. I simply let the brush harden and next time I need shellac I soak it for a bit in the shellac and it softens right back up.. I know it seems rock hard and it is but 15 minutes in the shellac and it's new!
Same ease with any you get on your nice clothes (and you can wear nice clothes while shellacing).. just wash them and shellac be gone! Seriously I once shellaced a floor with my T shirt.. (forgot my brush) Tossed it in the wash and I still wear that T shirt today.. Can't tell which it was..
I also should say something about sanding. Don't for gods sake use one of those drum sanders unless you have some real experiance with them.. Too many ways to screw up.
Instead use the DA type sanders.. I prefer the square pad ones with one big piece of sand paper about 20"x24" I've never screwed up using them and I've ruined a fair number of floors learning not to use a drum sander.
108402.70 is a summary of how to copy/paste a link from a post.
The same formula works on regular type as in a normal sentence structure.
Cheers
I don't know why I am feeling this, but I'm gonna post it anyway..one of my 6th senses is ringing. LOL
I seem to recall way back then there was a precurser of todays "engineered" flooring. It was more like plywood or dare I say, paneling..and it LOOKED like oak ( IIRC it was a veneer, not a vinyl press on) with the walnut type plugs.
Now I'm not saying that is what your folks have, but I really got a mental reminder of that stuff, and have no idea where I even saw it. But I WOULD check before undertaking any sanding, that it is indeed solid wood flooring and not this product I am picturing.
As to a remedy if it IS wood? Buy another rug, or plan on a total refin. a quick and esay fix don't exist.
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Yep, it's real wood. Have some left over pieces from the installation still; dad never threw anything away.I told them the same thing but I was just checkin' here. New rug or total refinish. I vote refinish, since I'm gonna wind up with the house someday, but they want a new rug anyway, so that's what they're probably gonna do.
Worst part of refinishing floors is working with the drum sander and the disc edger. One little bobble with either and you gouge the hell outta the floor and have to live with it forever. Nervous-making, to say the least.
However, there are now big RO (random-orbit) plate sanders made for refinishing floors that bring the job within the grasp of pretty much any DIYer. All that's required is enough muscle to walk a medium-sized dog, and a modicum of patience (as these do not cut anywhere near as fast as the other tools).
It is also possible that just using a commercial floor buffer with a coarse pad will scour off enough of the surface to lighten up the darkened areas.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
JonE, Hire a pro and tell him you want to stain it yourself. There is no easy way to even it up. I would advise staining because of those v grooves that nobody can sand out. So, as long as you're gonna own the house in time and you do the staining you get to pick the color.
And this is how you do it. Have the parents have it vacuumed when you come in after work. Have a gallon of light walnut stain in your hand and a sheepskin mop in the other hand and a three inch brush in your pocket. Pour a pile on the floor and spread it around without standing around talking. Cut in with the brush only if you have to. Even if you've cut in get very close with the mop, maybe 1/4". Mop it evenly and do not leave any puddles. That's very important. Tell 'em "good luck with the smell, goodnight." Oh, walk all over the stain if you need to but have some newspaper to step on coming off. [ 45 minutes ]
Next evening come in with a gallon of polyurethane and the mop that you kept wet with reducer over night [and squeezed out the color]. Say "Hi Ma", walk on the floor. If it feels sticky say " Goodbye Ma". The worst mistake you can make is to coat it too soon and it moves around. Nothing you can do but leave and come back the next day. But chances are it will be dry and you can smear on the first coat of urethane so pour it on the floor and spread it around with the mop. Another [ 45 minutes ] not counting talking
Don't know how may feet you got but a gallon will probably cover 250 to 300' so have enough but this time you have to sand it. You can sand with the mop and a piece of 120 sandpaper. Lots of work. Or rent a buffer with a piece of 120 screenback and do it in 15 minutes. Don't tary with the buffer, you only want to take off the nibs. Then vacuum and spread on the last coat. Say goodbye and realize that not counting driving and talking you've done did that job in about 3 hours of work.
That floor should look as good as new. Hey, it is new!
You are joking right?Wallyo
Wallyo, No, I'm not joking. What part of my post do you think is a joke?
To be truthfull all of it.I know of very few refinishers, including myself that would sand a floor, and let a client finish it. In order to controll the quality, the job itself is usually sold as a package deal. I would not sand and let another finish. Problem is even with the most careful sand job you can have flaws that need to be worked on some of these you can not even notice till the stain hits. "Mop on stain", stain is applied by rag or brush in the direction of the grain, allowed to soak in a bit, then the excess wiped off with a second rag. Doing a 6-8 wide strip the length of the room.Standard "polyurethane" is not the best floor finish in the world.Floor finishing is not a three hour, in and out job on 300 square feet.Sorry we will have to agree to disagree. But if it works for you, it works for you.Wallyo
Edited 8/2/2009 2:17 pm by wallyo
JonE
You do not say what shape the floor is in.
It either needs refinishing or it doesn't, main reason to refinish is scratches, gouges, dents peeling finish.
If the surface is in good shape over all then you are refinishing to bend the two areas. What you have is a small lighter color square in a darker square. Even after a good sanding you still risk a chance of the area once covered by the rug being lighter then the area not covered by a rug. Staining the whole floor a darker color you may blend it a bit but you still could wind up light square in dark square.
When one say, tears down a wall between two rooms and extends a wood floor from the room that had wood into the room that didn't and the strip flooring is laid parallel to the torn out wall. You can oil the old with a neutral oil and stain the new wood slightly to age it.
In your situation you can not do this you do not have a clear division line between one shade and the other i.e. a joint between the strips.
If it indeed is 40 years old (could be but I did not think v groove went that far back), the floor finish has very little UV protection in it. Leaving it uncovered, the old will catch up to the new on its own in time, with in a year there will be less of a difference.
Covering a floor does weird things to it. I refinished one once that had a padding from the late 60 early 70's under the rug. It was a bubble, waffle, rubber style padding, even after sanding and refinishing the ghost of the waffle appeared. The waffle design caused the floor to absorb more oxygen in the area under the bubble vs the area where the bubble edges touched the floor. Hence a slight shadow reappeared.
But if you do go and have it refinished and there is still a lighter area, leaving the floor uncovered, that light area will over time catch up. It all has to do with oxygen and sunlight, nature at work.
One thought is one could mask off and fume the oak in the light area to age it. VERY dangerous to do indoors and should only be done by an expert with the house vacant. FUMING SHOULD NOT BE DONE BY A DIY INDOORS and only an expert will know if it could be done indoors. If you want educate your self a bit on fuming it is a better discussion to be had in Knots.
As Dinosaur said if you want to go at it your self there are graeat sanders out there. One I think he is talking of and I would recommend is the cherry hill manufacturing sander marketed by the name super bee or U sand, this sander takes a bit more in time but is almost fool proof. http://www.cherryhillmfg.com/u-sand/index.htm. The tough part is the v groove and sanding those evenly or just getting rid of them (depends on the way the strip was milled) but you have some loose piecesto lookat, why do dads never throw things out?
Want to know more about the sander, just ask me happy to share.
Wallyo
Edited 8/1/2009 2:37 am by wallyo
It's definitely the original floor, house was built in '68 so it's 41 years old. I am not sure if the floor ever had a 'finish' or whether it was just sanded and waxed. Hard to tell. I do know that it's in good physical shape - no major dents or gouges, no peeling finish, nothing except two radically different shades and the exposed areas have been subjected to 40 years of dirt. My parents told me last night that they've been using some kind of heavy duty cleaner (probably TSP) on the floor and have been taking off "an incredible amount of dirt/wax buildup' and the exposed areas have lightened considerably. I think that a combination of heavy scrubbing/cleaning and exposing the hidden areas to some sunlight and wear will probably do the job.
You can slightly lighten the oak with some oxalic acid on the darker areas. But I would do exactly that, scrub, scrub and scrub and leave the lighter areas exposed to as much sunlite as possible and cover the darker areas.. sanding will lighten it up a touch, but do not use one of those drum sanders..
Do check out the shellac as a floor finish..
IT's a very easy DIY project and I've recieved a lot of compliments from those who have followed my technique..
Edited 8/1/2009 12:15 pm ET by frenchy
frenchy I have to agree with you, with only one execption covering the dark areas. Would be hard to do, border rug? Chances are the dark area are probably as dark as they will get at this point, but it might help.Could be and no pun here he has a French polish on the floor i.e. shellac on bare wood with polish on top. If that is the case removing and cleaning then re shellac might be the ticket.Let him khow how to test for shellac.WallyoFrenchy is right with that V groove no drum sanding.
40 years ago new floor finishing products were all the rage and shellac had really ended it's common usage post WW2. Floor refinishers who still ground up shellac flakes added alcohol and made their own shellac were a dying breed. Only a few holdouts in fine upper class homes were still using Shellac on their floors by the time the 1960's came around..
So assuming the late 60's is when this house was built there is almost no chance of the floors being shellac..
He can check if he wishes by simply taking some denatured alcohol and rubbing it on the finish.. If the finish comes off it's shellac and that's how you remove it.. no sanding because shellac will clog up the sanding paper..
"no sanding because shellac will clog up the sanding paper.."That is for sure had that happen once did not know enough to realize it was shellac at the time 2-3 passes it was clogged.