Replace Bevel Siding/No Sheathing
I’m looking at an old house, late 1800’s I believe.
Currently sided with 6″ beveled siding, I don’t think it’s cedar though.
There really isn’t any rot, but the paint job is in REALLY bad shape, I’m sure there are moisture issues here. The siding appears to be thicker than what new 6″ Bevel Cedar is as well.
There is no sheathing on the house that I know of, and some type of blown in insulation is in the wall cavities.
GC owns and lives in the house. This is NOT gonna be fine home building, but I am searching for some reasonable ideas.
He wants to try to go on top of the existing, but doesn’t have a plan. I suggested horse feathers on old, the packing out ALL the window trim, corner boards, barge boards, they’ll be alot of funky things going on.
I suggested just tearing it all of and letting the insulation fly, re-sheathing and install new bevel, but that puts us back with the trim build out issues, not to mention the mess of the old insulation and installing new.
What about tearing off the old 4-6 boards at a time and hoping that the insulation is packed enough to hold still long enough to get the new siding on??
Do you think the minor difference in thickness will bite me anywhere?? 3/8″ new vs 1/2″ or 5/8″ old.
Thanks for yoour thoughts.
Eric
Replies
The problem with that design is there is no secondary drainage plane. Any water that gets past is going to soak in a hang around long enough to push the paint off.
This probably worked fine when there was no insulation, since the water would have just run down the inside face of the siding, and dried out pretty quickly.
I doubt your paint will stick either. Would they consider sheathing it?
The house seems to have drained well for 100+ years, the insulation has been there for 30 or 40 years, and there is no visible signs of it holding water and causing damage.
I would be using pre-stained siding.
Your points are well taken though, like I said, this ain't fine home building.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
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If the current siding is 5/8" thick, then you may get away with a tearoff, 1/2" sheathing, and fiber cement siding without having to retrim your windows, etc. Or you could go to 3/8" sheathing if allowed in your area. The big advantage to a tear-off is that you can inspect the underlying structure and insulate with a modern material, like spray foam. Of course, this is probably the most expensive option, but you'll get what you pay for in terms of longevity, interior confort, and heating/cooling costs.
Otherwise, I'd keep the existing siding in place and strip off all the old paint, depending on what your local lead-abatement laws are. I've had great luck stripping paint from bevel siding with the Paint Shaver Pro (http://www.paintshaver.com/paintshaver-pro.html )
Replacing 2-3 boards at a time would be my last choice, as it's a pita with bevel siding, and you'll have no chance to install an air and/or moisture barrier. Plus, I'm sure the new wood is inferior in quality to the old.
Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
Andy
Thanks Andy,
Yea, the lead laws. That's exactly why he doesn't want to scrape it.
I'm thinking I might be able to get Tar Paper in there in smallish pieces.
Better than what's in there now.
What ever gets done will be an improvement.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Tell him to call the tin men, unless you really need this job, or he's looking like a cash cow.
I already know that this is not the "proper way" to handle this.
The house is NOT going to get stipped to the studs, spray foam insulated, sheathed and sided after new windows. It's just nor going to happen.
Nor is the Tin Man comin a knockin!
Sometimes we just do, just make the best out of what we have, or what we can get. If the house leaks or bla bla bla, it is not my responsibility, as the owner, who is a g/c, will have the last say in the procedure.
Like I wrote in the introductory post, this ain't gonna be fine homebuilding.
Just looking for some reasonable advice or experience.
The job is 5 minutes from home, and the pay is ok.
Not a lot of thinking to do, I can come home for lunch.
It fits the bill for now.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
People use the term horsefeathers to mean two different things. One is beveled siding placed upside down against existing siding to make a (relatively) smooth surface. Another is new siding butted up against the bottom of the existing stuff a la overroofing.
If you were meaning the former, you might consider the latter. Fiber cement siding is relatively thin, and if butted over existing siding woudn't add much additional thickness.
I like the Cement Siding idea.
Only problem is that he had some of the house that includes an addittion scraped and painted already, so we have to stick with the bevel siding.
I probably meant horsefeathers in both terms!, but yes, I was thinking to build out the existing fairly flat.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I've worked on a number of old houses similar to what you describe. I doubt the siding is beveled. Probably 3/4" or thicker flat boards , nailed with 6" exposure. Horsefeathers is the way I would do it. First make sure the old siding is tightly nailed, then add horsefeathers.If there is tarpaper under the siding, leave it, if not paper over the siding and horsefeathers. Fibercement siding I agree, is a good product for this application. I would not try to remove any boards, even if the insulation stays put. If you do and decide to sheath over the studs, be aware the studs are not the same thickness or width from one stud to another. The studs are probably mortise and tenoned into the sill and top beam. If the house is two stories ,the studs are full length.You may find one stud is 4" thick, next one 4 1/2" thick etc. The centers are probably anything that looked close to 16", or maybe 24".Unless you sheathe with long panels, like homosote ( up to 16'-0" long I believe), you will be cutting a lot of sheathing to fit on a stud.
mike
Thanks Mike,
Good reply.
So how would you handle all the trim?
I'm guessing this is a Georgian Colonial? Late 1800's, 12" corner boards with fancy returns at the rake end.
I'm trying not, in fact I cannot remove them, and building over just seems really tacky.
Why would you not remove the old??
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
The trim will be a problem if it's very detailed. If the trim is flat, then you can just cover it with some 3/4 or 5/4 stock and call it a day. If not, then you could remove all the trim, and put 3/4 or 5/4 boards underneath it, then reinstall it. No matter what, people with good attention to detail will probably notice that there are two layers of siding.
Also, you probably don't need to fully horsefeather it. Doubling the siding to make it flat will take a lot of wood. Instead, put a 4" piece every 16" as a nailer for the FC.
Good luck
If you just want a flat surface, you might consider trying the tin man approach of the fanfold foam "insulation" board. You have to be careful to not overtighten the nails of the siding on top, but the foam is thin enough that you won't add too much thickness.
I would not remove the old siding mainly because of the stud spacing.As I mentioned ,the studs are probably not on uniform centers. Eight foot plywood or osb may have to be cut for almost every sheet to land on a stud. 200 years ago the homes were plaster on wood lath, stud spacing wasn't critical then. You will find there are no headers over the windows or doors. The framing was a combined post and beam and balloon framing.
I build out the windows and door trim, flush with the existing siding.Flash first, apply new trim, side to the new trim with a 1/8" caulk joint if the siding is wood or hardi-board type product. The rake returns are probably in bad shape, most may be rotten wood. I measure the existing and make replicas. If you have an overhang on the rake rafters the returns won't be a factor. If the rake boards are flush with no overhang except the finished fascia, then you have a problem. To achieve the same look with new siding over the old you would have to extend the rake shingles too. All of the older homes I worked on had at least 10" of overhang on the rake and eaves.
If you decide to remove the siding and sheath, remove one or two boards across the length of the house first. You will be able to check for stud spacing . Do the same on the second floor, the studs may not be in a vertical line like we build today. Didn't have to be as the second floor wall framing may sit on a large beam instead of wall plates.
Get back to you later, my grand children just came in.
mike