Bad news this week was we found termites, but the good news is the damage is pretty limited. I’ve got only one 2×8 floor joist that is mush and needs to be replaced. The problem is that there are three 110 lines running through the middle of it, with no ends in sight. I’m looking for advice for how to replace the joist without moving or cutting the wires.
Other bits you need to know: 13.5′ span between beams; wires are 7′ from the center beam, and about 1.5″ in from the bottom edge. This is also a double beam, and a closet wall sits on it. House is about 50 years old.
I was planning on notching the new double beam to accept the wires, and cover it with a steel plate. I know notching weakens the beam, but that is offset some by having the plate added.
Is there a better way? I could try cutting slots in the ends of shorter beams, and sister them all up to form a spot for the wires, but that seems to weaken the beam far more.
I’m open to suggestion; I usually build furniture, not walls, though framing is not entirely new to me.
Paul
Replies
turn off the power, cut the lines and make up junction boxes, re-routing the wiring to do the work necessary. These junctions will need to be accessible afterwards. Can that happen?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
..uummm, great idea cal !!
Amazing isn't it? Simple minded carpenter coming up with an electrical answer. Will wonders never cease?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
...and its not even 8 o'clock..........hahahahahso far its cut the wires .... 3notch the beam ................0edit:
ooops its almost 9 by you huh?
Edited 11/20/2005 8:59 am by maddog3
Yup. Been up for quite a while. Need to get out and get things done b/4 kickoff. Got a list a mile long. Doubtful on completion. Some breakfest is in order. Blueberry pancakes are on the menu. grapefruit for starters.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
why don't you just cut the cables, add j-boxes to the adjacent beams and then re-connect them after you drill thru your new beam?
Cut the wire, install the new joist, then reconnect the wire in new junction boxes. Add a section of wire if there is not enough slack.
Anything you could do to the joist while still maintaining full needed strength would be a lot more work.
Cut the cables, you'll probably need a j-box on each side of the beam and add an additional length of cable between the two. You might be able to gang several of the cables into one set of boxes, depending on their proximity to each other. If so, be sure you connect the added cable to the correct ends.
Good luck.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
To add to what the others said, the holes you drill through a joist should not be in the center 1/3 of the length and should really be close to the center vertically.
Don't forget to index the wires on both sides of the cut so you reattach them correctly.
Of course he's going to have to add at least two j boxes, and run three new chunks of wire. I can only add that it is not legal to run romex under joists (in most situations) and that notching the new joist around the wires would be unthinkable, metal plate or not. Might as well leave the joist out.
"Of course he's going to have to add at least two j boxes, and run three new chunks of wire. I can only add that it is not legal to run romex under joists (in most situations)"Actually it is easy to run romex across the bottom of a joist.Just install a running board and mount to that. However, it turns out that he has a finished ceiling which was not mentioned at first.
I thought we were talking crawl space, in which case you are technically correct, all that is really required is that the wire be 100% strong-backed. I would much rather have the wire drilled thru instead.
Using two joists and notching them in opposite directions would be a desperate move, since it's so much easier to re-route the wire.
Yeah, I guess I could have given a bit more info. It's a split level home, and the eaten joist is between the two levels (floor joist of room above, or ceiling joist for room below).
Adding J Boxes is not what I wanted to do, but I could make a silver lining out of it by putting them inside some ceiling light fixtures (it's an English basement, and tends to be a bit dark). I'd hoped to leave it status quo and just notch + plate the joists. After all, that's what the plumbers do when they run pipe for baseboard heating above. Romex (or the 50 y.o. equivalent) would be a smaller notch, but I'll have to check to see if it is code. A doubled 2x8 joist, it shouldn't weaken the floor much, and the actual span is only 8'.
This change anyone's recommendation?Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Of course you'd have the option of placement as well if you were to go the light fixture route. Those j boxes don't have to be as close together as possible to function. See if there are two likely spots for ceiling fixtures where it won't upset the design too much.
I suspect SWMBO will say "of course, you doofus, put in lights--it's too dark of a room."
So I'll kill two birds with one stone and three trips to Lowes.
Thanks again to all, even though I really didn't want to do any electric work this week. But with the ceiling and adjacent walls opened up (%$! termites), I might as well.
So, we drill the holes and rerun the wires. wheee.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
I understand your hesitation to put two new j-boxes in a finished ceiling. Like I said I was imagining them in the crawl space or an unfinished basement. Yes you can put the junctions in the same box as a ceiling fixture, but now it sounds like we're stripping the entire ceiling.
The default advice from almost anyone in the business is going to be to get a structural engineer. I can imagine a few scenarios where a 'joist' could be fabricated in place around the wires... some sort of glulam built up in place, maybe.
Free advice about something like this is often worth what you pay for it.
Could you notch two new joists? One from above and one from below, then sister them together with glue and nails? So one has slots pointing up and one has slots pointing down, but with a hole for the wire at at bottoms of each slot.
Slide one in from the top of the wires, and then slide the other in from below the wires. When the two are sistered you'd still see a 3/4 inch hole through the centers (a new home for each wire). I guess for 3 wires you need three slots (er six slots, 3x2 joists)
No idea if that's a stupid idea... It might not be as strong as a doubled joist, but if glued and nailed, I'd think that it's at least as strong as a single joist.
That's certainly a lot more work than cutting three wires and setting 2 junction boxes with 3 wires between them...
Thanks to all the responses -- I wanted to avoid cutting the wires and then having two junction boxes in the ceiling (accessible, of course). I guess I could be sneaky and add two light fixtures and hide the junctions in those boxes. I'll have to think about this...my sister is an electrician, so I'll run it past her.
Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005