You guys know I’m a rookie. Still, this is something I’d just try and go for it – except if I screw up, there’d be a big hole in my house. 😉 So I’d like some help, if you guys will walk me through it.
I have an entry door that needs to be replaced. It’s not rotted or anything, but the door itself (wood) experiences a LOT of seasonal movement, so that it’s a challenge to operate once it’s -10 celsius. Also, half the paint is peeled off, the weatherstripping is trashed, and the dog has carved some serious grooves into it.
My plan is to buy a cheap-o steel door with no brick-mold or anything.
I’m expecting my process to be as follows:
– Remove old door, jambs
– level sill if necessary
– Flash bottom and sides of opening (Grace Vycor)
– Lay down two beads of high-grade polyurethane caulk
– Set door flush with interior plaster; square/plumb it up and nail it off
– foam around door frame
– add sill extension if necessary
– add exterior jamb extensions if necessary (haven’t figured that out yet)
– trim the exterior door with drip cap on the head
– trim interior
Any thoughts? I’m going to pull my interior casing so I can have a look at the RO before ordering the door.
Replies
My plan is to buy a cheap-o steel door with no brick-mold or anything.
I'm expecting my process to be as follows:
- Remove old door, jambs
- level sill if necessary
- Flash bottom and sides of opening (Grace Vycor)
- Lay down two beads of high-grade polyurethane caulk
- Set door flush with interior plaster; square/plumb it up and nail it off
- foam around door frame
- add sill extension if necessary
- add exterior jamb extensions if necessary (haven't figured that out yet)
- trim the exterior door with drip cap on the head
- trim interior
Why no brickmold (or other factory-applied exterior trim)? If the exterior wall is plumb, its a whole lot easier mounting a door with "door stops" on the outside.
If you're flashing the bottom of the RO with Vycor (a rubberized asphalt tape), make sure your caulk is compatible. The solvents in polyurethane can dissolve the asphalt.
http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/custom/Window_and_Door_Flashings/download/TP-067B.pdf
Generally, a door or window is installed with its frame flush with the outside sheathing and jamb and sill extensions are applied to the inside. If you have a non-standard wall width, you can order a door frame to fit. If it's a standard width, then the proper-sized jambs should be readily available.
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No brickmould only because those doors are really inexpensive. ;-) This isn't our forever home. We're hoping to move on sometime in the next six months. I mean, if I could get one with brick-mould for not too much more money, maybe I would. I haven't shopped around much.- Thanks for the heads-up on the caulk- I think our walls are a non-standard width: 2x4 studs with plaster over rock lath. I'd expect them to be thicker. But I don't feel like paying for a special-order door-frame.
If you elect to extend the jambs to the inside-realize that opening travel will be limited by the amount the door is inset. Usually no big deal for a less than an inch extension-but when you start burying it a couple inches-the door will stop a bit past 110 degrees-all the while wanting to spring the hinges.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
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Practically every inexpensive steel door that I've seen recently has brick mold applied, at least those prehung units at HD and Lowes. Personally, I don't like applied molding because it makes installing shims difficult. If you get one that has it applied, you can always remove it to facilitate proper shimming (or you can lamely fasten the unit to the house through the brick mold like many production installers).
You have the general idea, but here's a few tweaks that may make your life less miserable. After establishing that your sill is level, pan it with peel and stick, then dry fit the unit. If everything looks good, you can lay down a healthy bead of silicone sealant on the bottom of the threshold and stand up the unit in the RO.
I find it easiest to keep the jambs flush with the exterior sheathing, but being able to keep it flush with the sheathing assumes that the walls are reasonably plumb. Hopefully they are.
Center the unit side to side in the rough opening. Shim between the jamb and the jack stud just below the lowest hinge and fasten with one 4" screw through the jamb into the framing. Plumb the hinge side jamb in both directions, add shims just above the top hinge and put another screw through the jamb just above the hinge.
Now, shim the lower strike side and secure with a screw. Same for the top strike side.
Now that the unit is almost secure, check the fit of the door against the weather stripping. Hopefully the door will touch evenly against the weatherstripping on all three sides. Tweak everything until the fit against the weatherstripping is perfect.
Add more shims behind the middle hinge, and above and below the strike area.
Add screws at each shim location.
After the unit is properly secured and operational, trim the exterior.
If this is only a temporary fix I probably wouldn't foam the gap, just chink it with fiberglass. Either way, don't bother insulating around the door until the exterior is trimmed.
Extension jambs (if necessary) and interior trim come last.
I was looking at doors that had no brick-mould anyway. Could be a regional thing.I'm going to foam it regardless.
I forgot to mention the reason for the screws. In the event that you need to tweak things to get a perfect fit of the door within the jamb (very often you do), the screws allow you to make minor adjustments. If you wind up having to nudge the unit one way or another, you simply back out the screw, drill a new pilot hole in the jamb about an inch away, tweak the unit and put in a new screw. I use a tapered drill with a counter sink to make pilot holes in the jamb. The holes get patched and painted later (or you can try hiding your pilot holes under the weather stripping)
60-90 minutes is very optimistic, esp. if you are working alone. Not saying you can't do it this quickly but I wouldn't recommend starting this at 3 PM in the afternoon.
Good luck.
I don't mean an hour and half for the whole operation. . . but anyway, I'm going to do this when I can start first thing in the morning.
This thread just shows how many ways there are to "skin a cat'.
Some better than others, but all have worked for someone.
I myself like to have the brickmold attached. Like someone else said, I also shim the hinge side plumb before installing the unit (after leveling the sill) I run one screw next to the upper and lower hinge, then use the door to check the reveal and shim as I work my way around. Third screw goes at the latch, Fourth screw at the middle hinge, Fifth and Sixth go at top and bottom of the latch side. I check reveals after each screw ( I leave the door attached as I go).
Unless the door is well protected I prefer a metal pan under the door.
I do quite a few of these and generally allow 2-3 hours per door not including interior trim (sometimes can be re-used, other times easier/better to install new
Biff-you said you wanted to do "cheap".... cheap doesnt allow for pvc trim...
Well, I plan on hanging onto this house as a rental. In the long run, low-maintenance things like PVC trim might turn out to be "cheaper."It's a duplex. Half the house is rented out already.
Nothing against pvc trim, just wondered why you mentioned that when you also mentioned doing it cheap. i was under the impression you were going to get rid of the house..
my mistake
You left out mucking around for 4 hours trying to get it plumb and square.
Seriously, there's a danger that the floor isn't level in the area of the sill, or that the opening is racked. Can take a fair bit of putzing about to arrive at a reasonable compromise.
What sort of siding is on the outside, and how will you finish it? When I replaced our door I removed the brick mold from the new door and installed temporary stops, got the door centered in the opening as best as I could, then ripped down the brick mold to properly fit the opening in the siding. (The new door was about 1/2" wider than the old one.) This gave a near-perfect fit.
Four hours? Uhhh. . . My thought was to level the bottom of the rough opening using a piece of plywood and some solid shims. Then put Vycor over that.Having done that, I'd hope that I could get the door set in a reasonable amount of time. Yes, I'm young in the ways of carpentry, but I was thinking more like 60-90 minutes to get the door set, square, and functional. Which is allowing a lot of extra time for my newbie-ness.The exterior trim is currently wood capped with aluminum. I'm probably going to rip some PVC for trim.
Oh, and one of the worst situations to have is an opening that isn't flat, with one leg farther off plumb than the other. If you attempt to line up the jambs with the frame then the door won't close properly, so you have to fudge one side in and the other side out at the top and vice-versa at the bottom.
Applied brickmldg is for new construction installations. When replacing a door we always order without brickmldg. If it does get brickmldg, we'll install AZEK BM after the door is installed.The frame of the door should be flush with the interior, or it'll interfere with the 'swing' of the door. .View Image
Think you have it figured out.
Applied brick mold never is put on the same between mfgs. and limits proper installation.
Never... ever extension jamb the hinged side of a door .... Never.
Sorry, but with all due respect I do not agree with your statement to never put extension jambs on the hinge side of a door. up to about an inch is not usually a problem unless the door can open 180 degrees (many cannot, due to adjoining walls etc.) If I do need to use extensions, I would rather have them on the interior, otherwise you run into problems with the threshold not protruding enough. IMHO
I respect your opinion, been installing doors for 20 years and have just never run into a need for interior extension jambs. Odd isn't it?
Edited 1/13/2009 5:56 pm ET by sledgehammer
I guess I just run into lots of situations where people have already purchased a door or else its just cheaper/easier to buy a stock door and do extensions.
Bill, take Redman Henry's advice.This is exactly how I hung the last 100 or so exterior doors.Screws give you the chance to correct any mistakes.The only thing I do different is the method of shimming. I plumb the hinge side with a plumb bob.Measure the opening and find how much to shim one side to get the jamb centered in the opening. Lets say I come up with 5/8" difference so I want to shim about 5/16" each side.I shim the hinge side first before installing the unit.I shim to a line but a straight edge or long level is fine.I use a combination square to make sure the smims are fairly square to the opening.Then I tack shims on the lock side,one shim at each height,the other goes in after the frame is in the opening.This way the brick mold is not in the way to shim.Then I install the frame without the door,level the head and screw just below the shims.If you have shimmed the hinge side correctly then the rest is easy.Install three screws thru pilot holes in lock jamb,hang door and shim to the margin wanted.
mike
I find placing the door centered on the existing interior base, makes interior trimming easier then centering in the RO. I find few builder installed units that are centered in the opening.
Biff
I do about 10-12 door a year into all manner of homes.
1st sign of a DIY job is jamb extentions. Creates problems for the sill if that is too small, either on the inside with the vinyl or on the exterior sill. But lack of money is lack of money.
Over the years when I do things 1/2 way becuase I won't live there long, then I end up seeing my mistake for the next 10 years.
Hide your screws in the jamb behind the weatherstrip. Either remove the WS or use a puddy knife to hold it out of the way.
Most door installs around here involve a storm door remove/and new install and an old sloped wood sill.
I have done doors and been done by 10:30 and I have been there the next day until 10:30.
Good Luck
Rich
Cargin,
No offense to you but I have to take exception to the statement "first sign of a DIY job is jamb extensions"
I've done these a number of times and while I would prefer to order the correct jamb, sometimes I have no choice if I want the work. Around here it costs about 100.00 extra for custom jamb and people often balk at price of the door, especially when they price the econo doors from the big boxes (100-125 bucks on sale,they never remember the regular price) A regular thermatru costs me around 150, add custom jambs and its at 250, so often here we go...extension jambs again!
Hmm. You know, I might as well order a door with custom jambs. It's that I'm cheap, not poor. DW wanted to pay for installation real real bad. Ye gods.
I am never amazed at the number of people that are willing to reinvent the wheel at a discount price.
God bless each and every one of you.... You make my job just that much easier.
I am never amazed at the number of people that are willing to reinvent the wheel at a discount price.
What a great tag line!
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Liveon
I hear ya. No offense.
Most doors I do are factory painted with a clad jamb.
I like to use the Taylor door.
Average cost is about $650.
Many times HO has 4 9/16" door for a 6 9/16 opening. Great deal at HD.
If I install to the sheathing then I have limited door opening, a problem with the vinyl or tile flooring and and lock that scrapes the extention jamb.
If I fit to the inside wall then the threshold is too short, plywood is exposed and the storm door doesn't hit the threshold.
Just do your best I guess.
Rich
Stuff paper towels into, or tape the back side of, the strike locations before you foam the gap.
If you didn't know, get the "door and window" foam. It will seal with out distorting the jambs, but it will still expand into the strike hole if it isn't closed off some how. BTDT.
If the door slab is the problem, why not leave the rest alone? On another note, file all of the info you've gotten here, if you do actually pull the frame out, replacement is never the same twice.<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
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