I need a front entry door replaced. 36″, no sidelights. It is about a 4-6 week wait if I hire someone. The house is 15-20 years old. Anyone I have contacted has mentioned the install fees will go up if the wood is rotted, which they can not tell until they begin removing the old frame.
What exactly, is this hidden wood? Is it the framing for the rough opening?
I am handy enough to do the install. I can find an acceptable door in stock at any local store. The most daunting part to me is removing the threshold without damaging the ceramic tile inside. Beyond that, I don’t know what wood to have on hand so that if there is rot that is not currently visible, I can do the necessary repairs.
Also, the shim job done on this door was poor, as there is a good 1/4″ gap on the top, a good 1/2″ at the deadbold, and still 3/8″ at the bottom. The gap on the hinge side is about half that. Should I just use ordinary shims to reduce this gap to a more normal amount, or should I use my bandsaw and planer on a 2×4 to make some full length shims?
Thanks for your interest. After the first 5 replies, I have decided to just wait it out and have a pro install it.
Edited 6/29/2007 4:59 pm ET by Redwoodie
Replies
If you have never removed and installed a door, I don't know if I would start on my front door. It's not hard, you just have to understand how to do it, and how to cheat the trim if needbe by making a jamb or trim extension.
The wood they are referring to is the rough opening. If you want to see a few pictures of a garage door I just installed, check out this thread:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?msg=90259.28
With a house that new the only possible rot would be under the bottom sill.
Buy the cheapest piece of flakeboard you can find (or dig an old piece of plywood out of your boneyard), and cut it to fit over the door opening (fastened with Piffin screws). Then you don't have to worry as much about getting everything done in one go.
If there is grout against the threshold, cut/grind it out before removing the threshold. This lessens the chance of damaging the tile.
If you have the tools available, cutting shims to fit is a good idea (though leave a little wiggle room to be filled with conventional shims as you level/square the door). They don't need to be full length, of course, just in reasonably long pieces. Pieces of plywood may work as well as custom-cut pieces.
It may work out best to remove the stock trim (and nailing flange, if any) from the door during install (replace with some blocks to help with positioning), then cut trim to fit once the door's in place. This way you can match the width of the trim to the opening in the siding, if the new door isn't exactly the same size as the old one.
If you called me right now, I'd be lucky to make it out before Labor Day. The good contractors are worth waiting for.
Depending on how well the original door was installed, you could have rot at the sill. I've seen the subfloor ply and 2x framing rotted with an improper install.
Its normal for the price to go up if there's additional work. Its either that, or figure the price high enough to cover all contingencies. Most of the time, there's little or no additional work, but someone could easily lose their shirt without an allowance for hidden defects.
I'm not sure what you mean about the gaps. A 1/2" gap between the door jamb and the rough frame is about right. It allows for insulation around the door, and gives some room for adjustment to get the door level and plumb. The door is basically fastened thru the exterior casings, thru the sheathing, into the framing. Just shim at the top hinge and the strike area. so those spots don't move. You can also shim at the other hinge locations.
The 1/2" gap is betweed the door and the door jamb. I have not removed the casing to see how much gap is between the jamb and frame.
1/2" is way too much between the door and the jamb. That's a problem with the manufacturer, not the installer. Unless the installer also hung the door.
There should be about a 1/8"-3/32" reveal all around the door. Maybe a little more or less, depending on the humidity levels.
Red
The 1/2" gap is betweed the door and the door jamb
It sounds like your door was installed by nailing the brick moulding outside and the casing to the inside! So you dont even have that one to look at to do it right.
I dont know what your skill level is but any shmuck can install a door, but it takes a real carpenter to do it right!
The rot that the installers are refering to is that of the sill. If your door wasnt flashed properly you could very easily have some deterioration/rot to that area.
I dont know if your door is under cover or exposed to the eliments so I'm not sure what all you need to do to prevent any/anymore rot.
If you decide to tackle this make sure that you shim it well, I shim three or four places on the hinge side, top and bottom on the strike side along with right above and below the strike. Use spray foam(low expanding) after shiming to seal it tight.
Doug
I needed 3 exterior doors replaced, and two of them were custom sizes in a brick structure. I ended up using Lowe's. They send a contractor out to take measurements, you go order the doors, and then the contractor picks everything up and installs it. I think it was several weeks, but as I said, it was custom on two doors.
Of course, everything depends on just who the contractor is, but mine went pretty well. They won't paint however, and you need to get finish on the doors (all 6 sides) within 5 days for the warrenty to be valid. If you use a steel door, after you put it up, take it down and send it to an auto body shop. Back the same day, and a better finish than anything I could do.
Glad to hear someone had a good experience with them. The corian contractor they used for my kitchen was awful (old ones out two weeks before halloween - new ones in two weeks before x-mas.)
A neighbor said the first contractor Lowe's sent for her entry door took one look at the new door and the old door and said it would not fit. He "knew" it was the wrong size door, he did not even have to pull out a tape measure to prove it. Six to eight weeks later, the second contractor installed that same door with no difficulty.
So that is part of why I'd rather give it a go myself. Anyway, after reading all your posts, I think I will just wait it out and have a pro do it.
Red, from reading your first post, it seems to me that 1.) you believe you can replace your door yourself, but you're not exactly sure about it, 2.) you don't want to wait the 4-6 weeks for a competent tradesman to do it. And dare I mention 3.) my suspicion that you also don't like the cost of the install --especially w/ the caveat of possible framing rot or other unseen problems?
Right or wrong, hanging, trimming, fitting, and properly installing/adjusting the lock-sets and hardware on a pre-hung "stock" (big-box) door can either go really well, or really bad. Usually, for a single exterior door, one guy can figure on a full day of labor, on average. If you feel like you're up to it, go for it! Unless you don't.. and you also don't want to pay for someone else's expertise in this..in which case, you're in a bit of a pickle...which is why you are you asking these questions in the first place?
If you don't mind the learning process (and the possible extra time and added expense involved)--do it yourself. If you do mind, hire a tradesman (NOT a bigbox contractor), wait for his availability, and happily pay his fee...he's probably worth every penny.
Problem solved!
Maybe you should fill out your profile here at Breaktime. Somebody right here could be local to you and may be looking for a nice little filler job like that.